Leave it to San Francisco

[BuddyLee]

Now that I disagree with. Religion like it always has is for the home. Maybe if people stepped up and started being parents they wouldn't be trying to shoot each other.

Separation of church and state. If there should be any religion in public school's there should be a philosophy 101 class that teaches all types of philosophy.

 

[Tonio]

Religion doesn't belong in public schools.

I disagree. Yes, principals and teachers shouldn't require kids to pray. But students should be able to pray on their own. And public high schools should certainly be allowed to offer courses in comparative religions, since those courses aren't about recruiting students into a specific religion.

 

[tomchamp]

Bl!

Separation of church and state. If there should be any religion in public school's there should be a philosophy 101 class that teaches all types of philosophy.

Show me in the "Constitution of the United States" that phrase. I'll buy you a shirley temple. Good luck, it's not there!

 

[Vince]

Now that I disagree with. Religion like it always has is for the home. Maybe if people stepped up and started being parents they wouldn't be trying to shoot each other.

Like I said, I know you'll disagree." 25% of the people that have children are idiots who just want children without the good common sense to raise them properly. Or worse yet, they raise them to be just like themselves. A little more believing in religion in this country and maybe there wouldn't be so much crime, but then I know my preaching is falling on deaf ears.

 

[Tonio]

Show me in the Constitution of the United States that phrase. I'll buy you a shirley temple. Good luck it's not there!

You're right. It's from Epperson v. Arkansas, the Supreme Court decision in 1968 that struck down laws forbidding the teaching of evolution in public schools. I think the "separation" phrase was an unfortunate choice of words. I like the phrase below better:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=393&invol=97

Government in our democracy, state and national, must be neutral in matters of religious theory, doctrine, [393 U.S. 97, 104] and practice. It may not be hostile to any religion or to the advocacy of no-religion; and it may not aid, foster, or promote one religion or religious theory against another or even against the militant opposite. The First Amendment mandates governmental neutrality between religion and religion, and between religion and nonreligion.

 

[Tonio]

A little more believing in religion in this country and maybe there wouldn't be so much crime

I think there's some merit in that. But government shouldn't be the one promoting religion. To use free-enterprise language, let the marketplace of ideas be the driving force.

 

[BuddyLee]

Show me in the Constitution of the United States that phrase. I'll buy you a shirley temple. Good luck it's not there!

It doesn't need to be there, it's common sense, it is a political given that the two cannot co-exist without conflict! Almost all our founders thought this, almost all poltical theorists before them thougtht this. If you insist...

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/studygd0.htm

And most importantly...

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg1.htm

 

[vraiblonde]

I have a problem with a child being required to say the pledge. That is not freedom of religion.

Religion doesn't belong in public schools.

The Pledge has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with loyalty to your country.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands - one nation, under God, indivisible - with liberty and justice for all.

This is an oath of loyalty to country, not an establishment of religion. And my suspicion is that this Newdow person is simply a nut who wants to get some publicity at the expense of embarrassing his child. He's a big hero over at the DU, not because they think the Pledge is Christian brainwashing, but because they don't feel that anyone should pledge allegiance to the horrible, terrible, no good, very bad United States - ESPECIALLY while George Bush is in office.

So when I hear (see) people wailing about how horrible it is to force little children to pledge the flag, I think, "Traitor. :blammo:"

 

[BuddyLee]

The Pledge has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with loyalty to your country.

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands - one nation, under God, indivisible - with liberty and justice for all.

This is an oath of loyalty to country, not an establishment of religion. And my suspicion is that this Newdow person is simply a nut who wants to get some publicity at the expense of embarrassing his child. He's a big hero over at the DU, not because they think the Pledge is Christian brainwashing, but because they don't feel that anyone should pledge allegiance to the horrible, terrible, no good, very bad United States - ESPECIALLY while George Bush is in office.

So when I hear (see) people wailing about how horrible it is to force little children to pledge the flag, I think, "Traitor. :blammo:"

Well said.

 

[Larry Gude]

Well...

Then why do you care? If those numbers mean nothing to you, yet DO mean something to someone else, let them follow them.

Are you one of those types that goes down the road and refuses to follow or acknowledge limits? Do you go faster because it offends you?

...maybe...just a little.

 

[tomchamp]

It doesn't need to be there, it's common sense, it is a political given that the two cannot co-exist without conflict! Almost all our founders thought this, almost all poltical theorists before them thougtht this. If you insist...

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/studygd0.htm

And most importantly...

http://members.tripod.com/~candst/tnppage/arg1.htm

I'm just wonder if? John Roberts told any one of those Senators today that " It's doesn't need to be there, It's commom sense" would he get that Supreme Court job?
It's not a living document!

 

[BuddyLee]

I'm just wonder if? John Roberts told any one of those Senators today that " It's doesn't need to be there, It's commom sense" would he get that Supreme Court job?
It's not a living document!

And? What do you propose, turn this democracy into a theocracy?

 

[tomchamp]

And? What do you propose, turn this democracy into a theocracy?

Common sense does not prevail when it come's to the law!

 

[BuddyLee]

Common sense does not prevail when it come to the written law!

Then show me where the law states "Religion in public schools are fine".

 

[Larry Gude]

It IS a living document...

I'm just wonder if? John Roberts told any one of those Senators today that " It's doesn't need to be there, It's commom sense" would he get that Supreme Court job?
It's not a living document!

...because it is amendable.

The 10 Commandments are written in stone. Our Constitution is not.

 

[tomchamp]

Then show me where the law states "Religion in public schools are fine".

Show me where it hurts!

 

[BuddyLee]

Show me where it hurts!

OK, fine then. The official religion we shall teach in public schools is Muslim.

 

[vraiblonde]

The official religion we shall teach in public schools is Muslim.

What in the flying hell does any of this have to do with the Pledge of Allegiance???

 

[BuddyLee]

OK, fine then. The official religion we shall teach in public schools is Muslim.

Uh oh, did I just spark some 'conflict'?

 

[Larry Gude]

What da' judge said:

U.S. District Judge Lawrence Karlton ruled that the pledge's reference to one nation "under God" violates school children's right to be "free from a coercive requirement to affirm God."

Guess what's next? Bibles in courtrooms.

"Do you swear to tell the truth, whe whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you...uhh...err...well...so help you?"

"You ALMOST said GOD! I do NOT feel free from a coercive requirement to affirm God and I'm leaving!"

"Mr. Simpson! Get back here!!"