Lone Survivor...

[Bann]

and at the same time I hated the movie. (but for different reasons, than Larry hated it!)

... I know this was my mother's heart watching the movie, and I was irrationally putting my son in the situations those men were in. (He's enlisting in the Navy soon, and while he's not going into the SEALs and will probably not be on "front lines", and those guys were at least 5 years+ older than he will be when he first goes in - but I said these were irrational thoughts!)

but the movie made me think about that possibly being him, and it bothered me.
.

Your comment is the ENTIRE point of getting things right from an historical point of view; so as to not repeat the same mistakes because we didn't learn the right lessons the first time.
...
"Allegedly" a lot of people thought it, and some others, was a bad mission before hand, that some higher ups wanted it anyway and in true US military leadership style, when something goes wrong that shouldn't (Pat Tillman) if you can't throw it under the bus or outright lie about it, you make 'em hero's and the people responsible for, needlessly, getting folks killed get promoted and move on leaving no one responsible and the door wide open for the same mistakes.

...

Your son is why the truth matters.

I've been a military brat and/or spouse for 45 of my 55 years, so I am PRO military from the get-go, but I also have a pretty wide base of experience from which to draw. Some would argue (not me, because I am not a military history aficionado, who can pull the facts out of my memory bank without a bunch O' research) that nearly every military mission could be considered a "bad mission", and/or that some higher ups didn't want them to happen. I would guess someone could name a handful or more where this is true in many of our historical battles/skirmishes. Books are written and movies are made - this is not the only one.

While it was the movie which triggered my "irrational maternal thoughts" (which I characterized as such in my first post) that OMG, my son is about to go into the military and into harm's way - I didn't really put as much analysis as you are going into. This is not the same thing for me as it seems to be for you. I am a mom who let my imagination and maternal emotions get the better of me. That's all. It's just a coincidence that it was *this* movie that did it. It could be any war movie, to be honest. Details, schmetails. My mom instincts weren't looking at all those.

 

[Larry Gude]

I've been a military brat and/or spouse for 45 of my 55 years, so I am PRO military from the get-go, but I also have a pretty wide base of experience from which to draw. Some would argue (not me, because I am not a military history aficionado, who can pull the facts out of my memory bank without a bunch O' research) that nearly every military mission could be considered a "bad mission", and/or that some higher ups didn't want them to happen. I would guess someone could name a handful or more where this is true in many of our historical battles/skirmishes. Books are written and movies are made - this is not the only one.

While it was the movie which triggered my "irrational maternal thoughts" (which I characterized as such in my first post) that OMG, my son is about to go into the military and into harm's way - I didn't really put as much analysis as you are going into. This is not the same thing for me as it seems to be for you. I am a mom who let my imagination and maternal emotions get the better of me. That's all. It's just a coincidence that it was *this* movie that did it. It could be any war movie, to be honest. Details, schmetails. My mom instincts weren't looking at all those.

Well, I am sure as hell not knocking you. However, when we say "It's just a movie..." and the movie is supposed to be about something that happened, there is no "It's just a..."

In the news, there should be no "It's just a news report"
In math, there should be no "It's just a number"
In English, there should be no "It's just a word"
In history, there should be no "It's just a battle"

This isn't a fiction movie. This wasn't sold as fiction based on fact. It's not some recreation of a battle 500 years ago where, by necessity, it has to be some conjecture. If the movie was worth doing, at, in my view, it is BASED on what happened then, by all reasonable means it SHOULD be accurate at the very least on the major details.

As it is now, in 2015, a 10 year look back, a remembrance of the fight is going to have to have some major corrections added to it. Same thing in 20 years, 50 years. Pearl harbor, 9/11, Gettysburg, the Battle of the Monocacy up where I live, Little Big Horn, OK Corral, the major facts matter and this movie gets several wrong, on purpose.

And again, what happened, what actually happened is in and of itself a big deal, ESPECIALLY the villager part because it gets to the core of why we are over there in the first place. There was nothing to be gained by making major changes because, as I say, anyone who doesn't care and just wants to enjoy a movie, WON'T care because they don't know AND what DID happen is at least as compelling as the changes, and, in my view, WAY more compelling and to anyone who is a neurotic freak about 'trivial' things, like the truth, like me, it DOES matter.

In the end, Lone Survivor fails at it's key point; to tell the tale of how 3 US service personnel died, how 16 more died coming to their aid (the movie doesn't even touch on the hours long delay from HQ's that may well have made the difference), and how one, ultimately, survived. And why.

I know, I know, it's just a...

 

[GURPS]

While it was the movie which triggered my "irrational maternal thoughts" (which I characterized as such in my first post) that OMG, my son is about to go into the military and into harm's way - I didn't really put as much analysis as you are going into.

reminded me of this from 'Johnny Got His Gun' in Metallica's ONE

 

[Bann]

Well, I am sure as hell not knocking you. However, when we say "It's just a movie..." and the movie is supposed to

I know you're not.

It's a debate - no worries.

and, in my view, WAY more compelling and to anyone who is a neurotic freak about 'trivial' things, like the truth, like me, it DOES matter.

 

[Larry Gude]

reminded me of this from 'Johnny Got His Gun' ]

Sounds better to say they died for democracy than 'for Hamid Karzai, drug warlords and the military industrial complex' don't it?

You bring up the worst of this, how their nation used their loyalty and sacrifice. For the parents, that is probably a large part of this, the movie helps to give their loss at least some meaning. Young men answer their nations call to deal with 19 Saudi's with box cutters who milled 3,000 people and then end up on a mountain somewhere dealing with goats in an attempt to shoot some guy who had nothing to do with any of it but, just happens to fit some vague definition of 'bad guy/threat to democracy'.

And we STILL have our people over there. And democracy in the US has suffered, greatly. Not because of 9/11 but, because of our mind-numbing reactions to it.