PeoplesElbow
Well-Known Member
They are expensive? I get free checks and these are included on the free checks I get.
Mail Fraud - Stolen Checks!
- Thread starter TPD
- Start date
LightRoasted
If I may ...
For your consideration ...
There is one way, possible, that these checks are being identified and snagged. All checks, especially business checks, are printed using MICR (Magnetic Ink Character Recognition) ink toner, used specifically for account and routing numbers, bank institution number identification, in addition to check numbers and the payer's information. At the USPS distribution centers, (which btw can be over 16 acres or more under roof), they have these massive/huge/ginormous sorter/scanner machines, which could possibly pick up and identify those checks. (Btw, they not only sort, they take a picture of each and every letter scanned and store that letter's image, front, and back).
Also, those store check scanner machines, and bank teller scanner machines (when making a deposit), are picking up that magnetic ink as a part of the verification that that check is a valid check, before processing the amount to and from accounts. Similar to machines that validate currency such as in a soda machine or lottery terminal.
Taking a picture of checks for depositing via a cell phone app is the Achilles heal in this whole process which does not and cannot pick up the magnetic ink. In banks zest to profit even more they've created this app process. They don't care if fraud is perpetrated, it's peanuts compared to the savings of shutting down bank locations and letting off employees. In addition in the attempt to make cypto, controlled by those Satanist private bankers, the currency if the Nation.
So, see this for what it is. Banks catering to the baseness of human nature. Laziness. To maintain one's safety, one must always actively do the things necessary, no matter the discomfort, time, or the pain in the ass that it is. That, is the only way to prevent these type of transgressions.
Just my 2 cents.
Also, did you know that most young'uns today don't even know how to write out a check? It's true. If, they even actually have checks at all.
Yes, I have. Still, when one is dealing with amounts in the thousands, such as yourself, a little personalized attention goes a long way. Why not collect checks for a week and make one weekly trip to the bank for depositing? Or while on a run to fill the refrigerator with more Corona?
There is one way, possible, that these checks are being identified and snagged. All checks, especially business checks, are printed using MICR (Magnetic Ink Character Recognition) ink toner, used specifically for account and routing numbers, bank institution number identification, in addition to check numbers and the payer's information. At the USPS distribution centers, (which btw can be over 16 acres or more under roof), they have these massive/huge/ginormous sorter/scanner machines, which could possibly pick up and identify those checks. (Btw, they not only sort, they take a picture of each and every letter scanned and store that letter's image, front, and back).
Also, those store check scanner machines, and bank teller scanner machines (when making a deposit), are picking up that magnetic ink as a part of the verification that that check is a valid check, before processing the amount to and from accounts. Similar to machines that validate currency such as in a soda machine or lottery terminal.
Taking a picture of checks for depositing via a cell phone app is the Achilles heal in this whole process which does not and cannot pick up the magnetic ink. In banks zest to profit even more they've created this app process. They don't care if fraud is perpetrated, it's peanuts compared to the savings of shutting down bank locations and letting off employees. In addition in the attempt to make cypto, controlled by those Satanist private bankers, the currency if the Nation.
So, see this for what it is. Banks catering to the baseness of human nature. Laziness. To maintain one's safety, one must always actively do the things necessary, no matter the discomfort, time, or the pain in the ass that it is. That, is the only way to prevent these type of transgressions.
Just my 2 cents.
Also, did you know that most young'uns today don't even know how to write out a check? It's true. If, they even actually have checks at all.
TPD
the poor dad
Ah yes hadn't thought of that when retail locations scan my check and hand it back to me - makes sense.
I talked to a friend yesterday who has a kid that works for BofA. He was told that BofA's goal is to remove cash from most of it's branches. They encourage their customers to use the ATM if they want cash. They are doing whatever they can to discourage humans from coming inside, which means less employees, less physical locations. I had a brother a couple of weeks ago trying to get more than $10,000 in cash out of a different bank - he had to go to 2 different branches and still didn't get everything he wanted. They told him to come back in a couple of days after they got a delivery of more cash.
This is true for so many other things in life today.
I think I mentioned here earlier - when my checks were stolen and I was in the process of setting up a new account, I had 2 or 3 payroll cycles where I could not pay my employees via direct deposit so had to write a check. Two of my teenage employees had no clue what to do with that check. Another older employee suggested they do mobile deposit or, OMG, actually go to the bank! One of the kids said he was waiting until his insurance was due then he would just give his paycheck to his mother to pay the insurance. I actually had one kid who didn't even know how to sign the back of the check - they don't teach cursive in school anymore so he doesn't have a "signature" - he just printed his initials on the check. SAD! Fortunately my daughter is not one of those kids - she's been getting a paycheck since she was 4 or 5. I would take her to the bank at that age and make her write out her own deposit slip and stand in line to deposit her check. Though she doesn't use it much, she had her own checking account when she was 16 and even that was difficult to find a bank that would open a checking account for her at that age.
Sneakers
Just sneakin' around....
Piece o' cake. Write something illegible in the TO field, a chicken scratch signature, and a dollar amount exceeding the total value of your checking account.I did the same for my girls. We used County First before they merged, and they knew us by name. My oldest opened a checking account when she was 16. After they merged we went to the new bank, Community Bank of the Chesapeake, to open a checking account for my younger daughter, she was 17, and they refused to let her open one. So, instead of setting up her new account I closed all of mine, went across the parking lot to Cedar Point and opened new accounts for everybody. Including checking for my 17 year old. I never liked Comm. Bank after the merge anyway.
Both of my girls write checks and can do more than just sign their names in cursive.
We pay a lot for the :secure" checks that are compatible with our accounting system printouts.
Worthless and irrelevant advice..since every single one of our checks that were stolen were hand-carried to the Post Office to be mailed. I.E...outgoing checks. Checks that never sat in a mailbox...blue or otherwise. You were not paying attention.
Last edited:
LightRoasted
If I may ...
For your consideration ...
If you want to understand a similar phenomenon, just look to the now bankrupt FTX. (How did it happen, slowly, then suddenly). Anyway, FTX is/was operating exactly like the Federal Reserve bank does, as well as all other member banks. FTX was a ponzi scheme. FTX was creating extra FTT tokens and then manipulating the price, to be used as collateral for loans from the ponzi banks as well as to get more people to "invest" in their tokens giving buyers the mistaken belief that their FTT tokens had stable, and/or increasing, value. When news got out that FTX was basically illiquid, (actual value of tokens about $696K to Billions of supposed worth), there was a run in the crypto community to cash out. Guess what? The vast many could not cash out and are left with nothing. Billion upon billions, some say upward of $50 Billion, lost in a day. This was a classic form of a bank run scenario. FTX was a miniature version of the Federal Reserve in how it operated. FTX was a pure ponzi fraud. As are all crypto currencies, in my opinion.
The Federal Reserve, and it member banks, (member banks being your local bank such a PNC, BB&T, etc..), operate on the same premise. The only way to keep the the current monetary system going is for more debt, (credit cards, auto loans, mortgages, municipal bonds, Treasury bonds and notes, all kinds of debt, etc.), to be created, out of nothing to continually feed the system. (This is also where inflation comes from). The system always, ALWAYS, (in some form or another) needs more players/suckers to keep it going. The reason is because when debt is paid back, it is not just the principal that is paid, but the interest as well which was never created. Which pulls more money out of the system than was initially created in the first place. (Think 1 step forward 2 steps back). When debt is paid back that money is extinguished. Except the interest, which banks keep as illicit profit. Also, know this. Money, when dealing with banks, is created at the consumer level the moment you sign your name on the loan document. It did not exist before that moment. Customer deposits, by law, cannot be used to give loans. Btw something FTX was doing, giving loans from customer deposits to the owner and co-owners.
To avoid confusion. There is soft money loans; Money originating from a bank created when loans are made. And hard money loans; Money lent by a individual, or entity, that has actual money on hand. An example of a hard money loan is going to Dad to borrow money for a used car. Or the extreme, Guido that demands 15% and a vic of $50 a week until the loan is repaid ~ Aka loan sharking.
Now. Say PNC has a total of $1 Billion of customer deposits sitting in demand accounts, (demand account being checking or savings), across all of, say 100 branches, which would equal $10 Million at each branch. Many would think that each branch would have $10 Million in cash/coin/currency sitting in each branch's vault. Not so. Now, again. Did you know that each bank, regardless of name, has on hand, in cash/coin/currency, only the amount necessary to conduct its average daily business needs? If a bank needs more than their average, say for the Christmas time frame needs of area businesses, they place an order to the Federal Reserve to have more cash/coin/currency delivered to that bank. Banks hate this because it costs them and affects their bottom line. This is why banks don't want people to withdraw large sums from their accounts, and instead have them use ATMs. Because people are limited to the amounts they can withdraw at ATMs. Today's modern banking, the Federal Reserve System, is also pure ponzi fraud. Can you see, can you understand, how it is fraud?
Do all remember the annual Christmas time movie, It's a Wonderful Life, made in 1946? In that movie, they were/are telling us exactly how banks operate. (Except the part where he says to the effect Sally's deposits were lent to Bill to build his house, etc.). Even way back then. But the people still, blindly, trust the banks. Even when being told, without them coming out and saying it directly, that modern banking is a complete fraud.
Banks do not have your all your cash, everyone's cash, on hand in the bank's vault, to give out if demanded. It is all just a computer ledger entry. That is why bank runs are so damaging. Because when people actually figure things out, when they lose that fundamental trust, when they find out the fraud perpetrated against them, they want their money, and they want it now, and the banks do not have that money on hand. You do not want to be a participant in a bank run, because, that means you only used your mattress for sleeping. What it really means is that you lacked the personal responsibility in caring for yourself, your personal financial safety/security and well being, and left that function to others.
That is why gold and silver coin, as money, are so important. People kept their earnings, their "specie" money, safe in their possession. Using banks at the time for, if needed, sometimes, for transferring a payment to someone else, (for convenience), by depositing what was needed into an account to write a check. The person receiving the check, if they were smart, would cash it for gold and silver coin. But, as humans are, they became lazy, and began to put all their trust into banks and began depositing all their gold and silver coin. Giving up their own personal responsibility to that of unscrupulous people, for, wait for it ....... convenience. "Oh it's such a terrible burden to carry or store all this gold and silver coin, I'll just deposit it in a bank for safe keeping". Hahahahahahaha. Suckers, then. And suckers, now.
So, in closing. We all have been lied to since birth. There is no money. All banks are illiquid. It is really, and simply, monopoly money controlled by a private cartel of international shysters. We have all been conned. Now. Stop relying on others and do things for yourself. Oh, and if I've sparked a fire in your belly, begin now, or soon, by taking out all your money from your bank, a little at a time, leaving only what is necessary, and putting in what is necessary, to pay bills and the like. You will thank me later. And even though it's monopoly money, when the banking system or economy crashes, it can still be used. Better to have something in hand, than nothing.
How does a bank run happen? Slowly, then suddenly.
I was referring to checks from payments that you receive. However, my opinion on the creation of apps to take pictures for deposits making it easier to steal still stands. Also, to give a plausible explanation how these checks are being located. If someone has a check reader/scanner, it's nothing to scan an envelope to pick up if there is indeed a check in that envelope. I didn't think I had to spell that out for you.
Ok class. Sit back for a spell. This is gonna be a long missive. But very apropos and extremely important for everyone to understand. Do not classify this as a TLDR. If you do, it is to your detriment.
If you want to understand a similar phenomenon, just look to the now bankrupt FTX. (How did it happen, slowly, then suddenly). Anyway, FTX is/was operating exactly like the Federal Reserve bank does, as well as all other member banks. FTX was a ponzi scheme. FTX was creating extra FTT tokens and then manipulating the price, to be used as collateral for loans from the ponzi banks as well as to get more people to "invest" in their tokens giving buyers the mistaken belief that their FTT tokens had stable, and/or increasing, value. When news got out that FTX was basically illiquid, (actual value of tokens about $696K to Billions of supposed worth), there was a run in the crypto community to cash out. Guess what? The vast many could not cash out and are left with nothing. Billion upon billions, some say upward of $50 Billion, lost in a day. This was a classic form of a bank run scenario. FTX was a miniature version of the Federal Reserve in how it operated. FTX was a pure ponzi fraud. As are all crypto currencies, in my opinion.
The Federal Reserve, and it member banks, (member banks being your local bank such a PNC, BB&T, etc..), operate on the same premise. The only way to keep the the current monetary system going is for more debt, (credit cards, auto loans, mortgages, municipal bonds, Treasury bonds and notes, all kinds of debt, etc.), to be created, out of nothing to continually feed the system. (This is also where inflation comes from). The system always, ALWAYS, (in some form or another) needs more players/suckers to keep it going. The reason is because when debt is paid back, it is not just the principal that is paid, but the interest as well which was never created. Which pulls more money out of the system than was initially created in the first place. (Think 1 step forward 2 steps back). When debt is paid back that money is extinguished. Except the interest, which banks keep as illicit profit. Also, know this. Money, when dealing with banks, is created at the consumer level the moment you sign your name on the loan document. It did not exist before that moment. Customer deposits, by law, cannot be used to give loans. Btw something FTX was doing, giving loans from customer deposits to the owner and co-owners.
To avoid confusion. There is soft money loans; Money originating from a bank created when loans are made. And hard money loans; Money lent by a individual, or entity, that has actual money on hand. An example of a hard money loan is going to Dad to borrow money for a used car. Or the extreme, Guido that demands 15% and a vic of $50 a week until the loan is repaid ~ Aka loan sharking.
Now. Say PNC has a total of $1 Billion of customer deposits sitting in demand accounts, (demand account being checking or savings), across all of, say 100 branches, which would equal $10 Million at each branch. Many would think that each branch would have $10 Million in cash/coin/currency sitting in each branch's vault. Not so. Now, again. Did you know that each bank, regardless of name, has on hand, in cash/coin/currency, only the amount necessary to conduct its average daily business needs? If a bank needs more than their average, say for the Christmas time frame needs of area businesses, they place an order to the Federal Reserve to have more cash/coin/currency delivered to that bank. Banks hate this because it costs them and affects their bottom line. This is why banks don't want people to withdraw large sums from their accounts, and instead have them use ATMs. Because people are limited to the amounts they can withdraw at ATMs. Today's modern banking, the Federal Reserve System, is also pure ponzi fraud. Can you see, can you understand, how it is fraud?
Do all remember the annual Christmas time movie, It's a Wonderful Life, made in 1946? In that movie, they were/are telling us exactly how banks operate. (Except the part where he says to the effect Sally's deposits were lent to Bill to build his house, etc.). Even way back then. But the people still, blindly, trust the banks. Even when being told, without them coming out and saying it directly, that modern banking is a complete fraud.
Banks do not have your all your cash, everyone's cash, on hand in the bank's vault, to give out if demanded. It is all just a computer ledger entry. That is why bank runs are so damaging. Because when people actually figure things out, when they lose that fundamental trust, when they find out the fraud perpetrated against them, they want their money, and they want it now, and the banks do not have that money on hand. You do not want to be a participant in a bank run, because, that means you only used your mattress for sleeping. What it really means is that you lacked the personal responsibility in caring for yourself, your personal financial safety/security and well being, and left that function to others.
That is why gold and silver coin, as money, are so important. People kept their earnings, their "specie" money, safe in their possession. Using banks at the time for, if needed, sometimes, for transferring a payment to someone else, (for convenience), by depositing what was needed into an account to write a check. The person receiving the check, if they were smart, would cash it for gold and silver coin. But, as humans are, they became lazy, and began to put all their trust into banks and began depositing all their gold and silver coin. Giving up their own personal responsibility to that of unscrupulous people, for, wait for it ....... convenience. "Oh it's such a terrible burden to carry or store all this gold and silver coin, I'll just deposit it in a bank for safe keeping". Hahahahahahaha. Suckers, then. And suckers, now.
So, in closing. We all have been lied to since birth. There is no money. All banks are illiquid. It is really, and simply, monopoly money controlled by a private cartel of international shysters. We have all been conned. Now. Stop relying on others and do things for yourself. Oh, and if I've sparked a fire in your belly, begin now, or soon, by taking out all your money from your bank, a little at a time, leaving only what is necessary, and putting in what is necessary, to pay bills and the like. You will thank me later. And even though it's monopoly money, when the banking system or economy crashes, it can still be used. Better to have something in hand, than nothing.
How does a bank run happen? Slowly, then suddenly.
I'm sure the USPS employees that are stealing all these checks are pretty darned good at spotting them...however they are doing it.
Clem72
Well-Known Member
And your drivers license number at the top, name of the store in the memo, and a letter to santa at the bottom. Or at least that what it looks like the people in front of me in checkout are doing.
MICR is no longer needed per our accounting dept.
I work for a construction processing over 500 mil in revenue
LightRoasted
If I may ...
For your consideration ...
Do your checks come pre-printed, 8.5"x11"perforated tri-fold, with account and routing numbers before accounting puts them in the printer tray and prints them out?
LightRoasted
If I may ...
For your consideration ...
"However, the magnetic ink has always been legally required on the check as a payment instrument and that requirement still exists today. According to the Federal Reserve and the Accredited Standards Committee X9 (for financial industry standards), in order for a check to be treated as a cash item, it must contain MICR."
www.sourcetech.com
Ya might want to have your accounting department get a firm affirmative.
"However, the magnetic ink has always been legally required on the check as a payment instrument and that requirement still exists today. According to the Federal Reserve and the Accredited Standards Committee X9 (for financial industry standards), in order for a check to be treated as a cash item, it must contain MICR."
What Is the MICR Line and Is It Required on Checks?
A MICR line has always been legally required on checks as a payment instrument, and that requirement still exists today.
www.sourcetech.com
Interesting stuff. But it seems obvious that a pic taken from a cell phone could never determine if the routing number and account number are MICR. That aside, since the thieves are "washing" the payee info off and replacing it, I would assume the original check MICR stuff was still intact?For your consideration ...
Ya might want to have your accounting department get a firm affirmative.
"However, the magnetic ink has always been legally required on the check as a payment instrument and that requirement still exists today. According to the Federal Reserve and the Accredited Standards Committee X9 (for financial industry standards), in order for a check to be treated as a cash item, it must contain MICR."
What Is the MICR Line and Is It Required on Checks?
A MICR line has always been legally required on checks as a payment instrument, and that requirement still exists today.
Clem72
Well-Known Member
For your consideration ...
Ya might want to have your accounting department get a firm affirmative.
"However, the magnetic ink has always been legally required on the check as a payment instrument and that requirement still exists today. According to the Federal Reserve and the Accredited Standards Committee X9 (for financial industry standards), in order for a check to be treated as a cash item, it must contain MICR."
What Is the MICR Line and Is It Required on Checks?
A MICR line has always been legally required on checks as a payment instrument, and that requirement still exists today.
Some odd qualifying language there. I don't remember checks ever being treated as a cash item. People aren't required to accept checks, they aren't legal tender.
As far as I always heard it, if the account number and routing number are correct, you could write a "check" on a piece of toilet paper with a ballpoint pen and it would be valid.
LightRoasted
If I may ...
For your consideration ...
As for writing a check on plain paper, a napkin, or toilet paper ...
The answer is yes, that check would be valid under the Uniform Commercial Code. However, don't expect that anyone other than the drawee bank will touch it. It's not MICR encoded for automated processing, and probably will not run through any reader-sorter.
Even the drawee bank could wriggle out from paying the check if it had language in the deposit agreement requiring you to use bank-approved forms for your account. That can trump the UCC and allow the bank to refuse to pay that home-baked "check."
That is true. Taking a picture negates the use of MICR ink. But yes. They just change the payee and amount, leaving all other information on the check original.
Well, if ya think about it, a check really is as good as cash when written against as good account. That is why they are used instead of piles of money for a given transaction. Yes, no one is forced to accept a check. But if a check is accepted, one can just go to their bank, (which might place a hold on the funds until the check clears from the originating bank, (forced deposit), or given cash immediately if the holder of the check has sufficient funds in their own account to cover if the check bounces), or go the originating bank and exchange it for cash. Checks are written against demand accounts, which means they literately are as good as cash. If they weren't, then no one would accept them, ... ever.
As for writing a check on plain paper, a napkin, or toilet paper ...
The answer is yes, that check would be valid under the Uniform Commercial Code. However, don't expect that anyone other than the drawee bank will touch it. It's not MICR encoded for automated processing, and probably will not run through any reader-sorter.
Even the drawee bank could wriggle out from paying the check if it had language in the deposit agreement requiring you to use bank-approved forms for your account. That can trump the UCC and allow the bank to refuse to pay that home-baked "check."
kom526
They call me ... Sarcasmo
Well looky here.
www.foxnews.com
Stefanik campaign mail stolen while in USPS custody, $20,000 in donor checks allegedly lost
New York GOP Rep. Elise Stefanik's campaign alleged that U.S. Postal Service workers stole hundreds of donor checks totaling over $20,000 and shared photos of the alleged theft.
USPS is obviously involved in trying to cover this up everywhere it is occurring....but the story is getting out.Well looky here.
Stefanik campaign mail stolen while in USPS custody, $20,000 in donor checks allegedly lost
New York GOP Rep. Elise Stefanik's campaign alleged that U.S. Postal Service workers stole hundreds of donor checks totaling over $20,000 and shared photos of the alleged theft.