Mishandling classified documents
- Thread starter PeoplesElbow
- Start date
If referring to EO 13526, the VP does have original classification authority and could declassify documents, but only those that they, themself, originally classified. The President's classification/declassification authority supersedes all of those that have been designated as original classification authorities and they have the authority to declassify any government document/information.
Biden Classified Documents Bungle ‘A Huge Gift to Trump’: Senior Obama Adviser
Axelrod in comments to Reuters said that the latest developments were an “embarrassment” because Biden criticized Trump after the FBI raided his predecessor’s Florida residence for classified government documents last August.
“How that could possibly happen. How one—anyone could be that irresponsible,” Biden said in a “60 Minutes” interview in September.
Two months later and a few days before the midterms, his aids discovered classified documents dating to Biden’s time as vice president in the Obama administration at a Washington think tank he was associated with. Then, in late December, classified materials from his vice presidency were also found at his Delaware residence.
“It’s a Clean Up Job…They Are Trying to Cover-Up Something Else”
Bobb replied:
Bobb goes on to say:
Biden uses his lawyers to find his classified docs — to shield from the FBI
It’s strange Biden did not use security officers or the FBI to conduct further searches. The president has a host of people who regularly handle classified material. So why use the lawyers?
The answer appears the same as in the case of Hillary Clinton’s emails: control. Using private counsel allows Biden to raise attorney-client privilege. Trump also used counsel, but eventually the FBI raided his home to search and remove not just classified material but documents found in boxes with that material.
While that attorney-client privilege can be overcome under a “crime/fraud exception,” it adds a level of initial protection. It also allowed Biden to control the discovery and initial record of the discovery of classified information.
The key to any investigation will be the chain of custody extending back to the documents’ removal in 2017 when Biden left office. How these documents appeared in their discovered locations is known only to his lawyers. It’s a link in the chain of custody that Biden effectively controls.
That said, a president doesn’t necessarily have to break a specific criminal code to be corrupt. And this scandal isn’t about Biden’s son or his brother, but about Joe. At worst, Biden benefitted and participated in the family influence peddling, or, at best, he spent years lying to the American public about his knowledge of that business. Even if we found pictures of Trump and Putin taking shots of Imperia vodka together to celebrate the defeat of American democracy, it still wouldn’t change the fact Biden has much to answer for.
Recall that in an interview with Axios, Biden claimed he knew absolutely nothing about what Hunter was doing with Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company that was paying the younger Biden $50,000 monthly. Joe said he trusted Hunter, who had accepted a no-show job while his father was overseeing the Obama administration’s policy in Ukraine. That firm was led by an oligarch who at the time was under investigation for corruption.
Joe Biden claims that as vice president, he threatened Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko with the withdrawal of United States aid if he didn’t fire state prosecutor Viktor Shokin, who was investigating Burisma at the time. That, at the very least, was a serious conflict of interest. In 2015, some Obama administration officials — not exactly right-wing conspiracy theorists — raised concerns about the Bidens and Ukraine.
Because of the New York Post’s investigation into Hunter’s laptop — a story ignored by the Chuck Todds of the world for transparently partisan reasons — we also learned that an executive from Burisma thanked Hunter for facilitating a meeting between him and Joe while the latter was still vice president. This week, The New York Times gingerly confirmed that Biden had, indeed, met with Burisma reps. We also know that Hunter’s business partner made at least 19 visits to the Obama White House. We know that former Hunter associate Tony Bobulinski has sworn that Joe Biden discussed the family business. Emails suggest that Biden was the recipient of 10 percent in all those deals. I suspect if this was about Donald Trump, Chuck Todd would care more?
thefederalist.com
Recall that in an interview with Axios, Biden claimed he knew absolutely nothing about what Hunter was doing with Burisma, the Ukrainian energy company that was paying the younger Biden $50,000 monthly. Joe said he trusted Hunter, who had accepted a no-show job while his father was overseeing the Obama administration’s policy in Ukraine. That firm was led by an oligarch who at the time was under investigation for corruption.
Joe Biden claims that as vice president, he threatened Ukrainian president Petro Poroshenko with the withdrawal of United States aid if he didn’t fire state prosecutor Viktor Shokin, who was investigating Burisma at the time. That, at the very least, was a serious conflict of interest. In 2015, some Obama administration officials — not exactly right-wing conspiracy theorists — raised concerns about the Bidens and Ukraine.
Because of the New York Post’s investigation into Hunter’s laptop — a story ignored by the Chuck Todds of the world for transparently partisan reasons — we also learned that an executive from Burisma thanked Hunter for facilitating a meeting between him and Joe while the latter was still vice president. This week, The New York Times gingerly confirmed that Biden had, indeed, met with Burisma reps. We also know that Hunter’s business partner made at least 19 visits to the Obama White House. We know that former Hunter associate Tony Bobulinski has sworn that Joe Biden discussed the family business. Emails suggest that Biden was the recipient of 10 percent in all those deals. I suspect if this was about Donald Trump, Chuck Todd would care more?
Here's Why Hunter Biden Story Is Worth Investigating, Chuck Todd
The GOP already has far more genuine evidence for an investigation into Hunter Biden, than Democrats ever had for 'Russia collusion.'
thefederalist.com
Unlike Trump’s, Biden’s Classified Document Scandal Is Real
Before we go any further, I find all this “classified document” handwringing silly. Speaking objectively outside the tit-for-tat of partisan politics, everyone knows America goes overboard with that big, red CLASSIFIED stamp. Hey, and who can blame us? Stamping something CLASSIFIED has to feel pretty cool. Reading something stamped CLASSIFIED must feel even cooler. So why not stamp, stamp, stamp your way to that warm and fuzzy feeling of self-importance?
Plus, by stamping everything CLASSIFIED, the Deep State can frame people for invented crimes, embarrass them politically, and meddle in elections. And we all know how much the FBI, NSA, CIA, and Homeland Security love to frame people to protect the Democrat party.
Here’s my view of what’s happening to Trump: From what we know, the classified documents in his possession were secured in a single place — within his residence at Mar-a-Lago, which is guarded by Secret Service. Additionally, and again from what we know, the National Archives had an inventory of these documents, knew what Trump had, and negotiated their return.
Obama Ethics Chief Slams Biden Over Classified Doc Scandal: ‘Inexcusable Neglect Of Most Basic Security Protocols’
“It’s nothing like Trump’s deliberate refusal to return classified records demanded by the National Archives, but Biden’s own retention of classified records reflects an inexcusable neglect of the most basic security protocols,” Shaub told Fox News. “The fact that the White House didn’t mention that records were found in more than one location when first asked about them was a breach of trust with the public and a self-inflicted wound.”
“Based on what we know so far, it seems unlikely that he’s at risk of any of legal consequences,” Shaub claimed, “but I’m glad Garland appointed a special counsel to show even-handed treatment of the current and former president.”
U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland announced Thursday that he appointed former U.S. Attorney Robert Hur — who served during the Trump administration — to serve as special counsel in the investigation after the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois John Lausch, who was assigned to do an initial review of the case, recommended to Garland that a special counsel be appointed.
“It’s nothing like Trump’s deliberate refusal to return classified records demanded by the National Archives, but Biden’s own retention of classified records reflects an inexcusable neglect of the most basic security protocols,” Shaub told Fox News. “The fact that the White House didn’t mention that records were found in more than one location when first asked about them was a breach of trust with the public and a self-inflicted wound.”
“Based on what we know so far, it seems unlikely that he’s at risk of any of legal consequences,” Shaub claimed, “but I’m glad Garland appointed a special counsel to show even-handed treatment of the current and former president.”
U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland announced Thursday that he appointed former U.S. Attorney Robert Hur — who served during the Trump administration — to serve as special counsel in the investigation after the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Illinois John Lausch, who was assigned to do an initial review of the case, recommended to Garland that a special counsel be appointed.
Biden's Classified Doc Scandal Dredges Up Something That Makes Him Look More Hypocritical
Now, since it’s a Democrat, everyone is coming out of the woodwork to offer talking points that we have already said—like how the National Archives does overclassify items they deem essential to presidential records. Also, yes—former top government officials playing fast and loose with classified materials is an open secret, but everyone, as always, treated Trump’s classified doc flap as unprecedented. That was the case when federal agents decided to ransack the home of a former president under the auspices of the Presidential Records Act. Another difference between Trump and Biden’s classified document debate is that Mar-a-Lago was a secure location protected by the Secret Service. Staffers with the proper clearances also handled the documents—we don’t know who handled Biden’s illegal seizure of classified materials.
So, as if the hypocrisy with this circus wasn’t bad enough, let’s rehash then-Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE) torpedoed the CIA nomination of former Kennedy speechwriter Ted Sorensen under Jimmy Carter, heavily opposed by the intelligence community—Sorensen had no foreign policy experience. The Intercept thought it was worth mentioning. And it is: a broken clock is right twice a day. Biden gave the aura of supporting the nomination before delivering a haymaker to the nominee about his improper acquisition of classified materials. Biden sided with Senate Republicans to kill this nomination, which Sorensen, who passed away in 2010, said was an event that should have awarded Biden a “prize for political hypocrisy in a town noted for political hypocrisy” (via The Intercept):
Dem Lawyer for Trump Impeachment Has Dumb Take on Biden Classified Doc Scandal
"I do think it goes to a really important fact that is being missed here, which is that this administration is doing things by the book, there is a divide and a separation between the Department of Justice and the White House that certainly did not exist in the last administration. And President Biden and his team have reached out to the archives, they've reached out to the Department of Justice, they have done everything they can to cooperate," the congressman said, singing the praises of how the Biden administration has handled the debacle before denouncing Trump.
The timeline of what we know would suggest that the president and his team have not "done everything they can to cooperate." It bears repeating every time that the documents were discovered on November 2, 2022--a week before the midterm elections where Democrats performed better than expected--but the news didn't break until a week ago. Even more damning to the president is that news broke on Saturday of even more documents being discovered, just before Goldman's appearance on "Face the Nation." This is despite how White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre had already made assurances on Thursday that the search was "complete."
Brennan, to her credit, pushed back, as she clarified Goldman's remarks for him in that "obviously, in the handling of classified material, not by the book," when it comes to the administration's handling, "because the regulations are pretty clear there."
She went on to ask Goldman if he could explain, "for the search that we just laid out that was happening at the president's home for- the current president--his Wilmington home on Thursday? Why would he send lawyers who don't have a security clearance to search for classified material?"
Goldman's response was perhaps the most dumb, and memorable answer, leading to a rather frank tweet from Arthur Schwartz about the clip.
"I'm not sure, and we don't know the circumstances of that," Goldman began his response with. "But certainly, the documents leave the Vice President's office and have to be stored somewhere. I do hope we will find out more information about it." Oh, gee, they "have to be stored somewhere" is certainly some kind of an excuse.
Democrats are ignoring the fact BIDEN HAD NO RIGHT TO POSSESS ANY Classified Documents
DOJ considered letting the FBI monitor search for classified documents in Biden’s home: report
The sources added that the DOJ wanted to leave open the possibility of using the FBI if Biden's lawyers did not cooperate as the investigation continued.
The Justice Department was reportedly concerned that the FBI's involvement in the process of turning over classified material could complicate its ability to execute search warrants or subpoena documents if needed later in the investigation. The documents were instead turned over by Biden's senior counsel, Richard Sauber, who has a security clearance.
The Justice Department began its investigation into Biden after a batch of classified documents was discovered at the Penn Biden Center in November, which was later revealed in January through media reports. Attorney General Merrick Garland launched a special counsel investigation after it was revealed in January that additional classified documents from Biden were recovered.
Try Not to Laugh at DOJ's Excuse for Not Sending FBI to Raid Biden's Homes for Classified Docs
Allow me to distill the nonsense that Garland’s Justice Department, characterized as “people familiar with the matter,” told the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday afternoon.
First up, the Merrick Garland approved leak wants us to believe that gosh, we considered having the FBI SWAT team oversee the raid to get the illegal documents, but the Justice Department “decided against it, both to avoid complicating later stages of the investigation and because Mr. Biden’s attorneys had quickly turned over a first batch and were cooperating, according to people familiar with the matter.”
Just like Donald Trump. Just kidding.
President Trump had the authority to declassify documents and, as a president of the United States, was allowed to take them as his personal documents, according to Mike Davis of the Article III Project. Not so with the vice president, which Biden was when he purloined the documents with the highest security classifications. We’re told, but we don’t have proof since we have only the say-so of Biden’s lawyer Richard Sauber, that some of the documents pertained to Ukraine and China. Of course, those are the countries from which Hunter Biden was extracting millions for access to the Veep.
Garland’s lackeys leaked that President Biden’s own attorneys were allowed to search the documents without FBI presence (read: raid) because he trusted Biden’s attorneys to do the search for them. On his word as a Biden. “Not a joke, not a joke.”
Indeed, the two sides, presumably the DOJ and Biden, though it’s not clear, “agreed that Mr. Biden’s personal attorneys would inspect the homes, notify the Justice Department as soon as they identified any other potentially classified records, and arrange for law-enforcement authorities to take them.” Did Biden get a back rub too? A day at the spa? Cognition lessons? Anything’s possible after telling Team Biden that hey, no problem you can go through the documents and then turn over the documents that Biden’s lawyers wanted to hand over.
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
Lets face it. This will NEVER see any kind of legal ramifications. For simply obvious reasons.
IF Joe were to be held legally responsible and found guilty or at-fault, then its a scandal and everything gets turned upside down.
IF Joe were NOT to be held legally responsible, then every person who has a sensitive materials "mishap" could point to the court case and say "he did it and wasn't held liable." Thus, the mishandling/loss of Classified info would have no repercussion.
IF Joe were to be held legally responsible and found guilty or at-fault, then its a scandal and everything gets turned upside down.
IF Joe were NOT to be held legally responsible, then every person who has a sensitive materials "mishap" could point to the court case and say "he did it and wasn't held liable." Thus, the mishandling/loss of Classified info would have no repercussion.
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
Your reason could or could not be the right one, but you are factually correct when you say it won't amount to anything.
Biden's '68 days of silence' on the documents farce: White House used group of loyalists including Joe's sister to keep discovery secret for six weeks in failed plot to prevent a Special Counsel and make debacle go away, bombshell report claims
- Biden and small team of advisers decided to keep docs a secret
- Gambled that they could handle it privately with Justice Department
- For 68 days they kept discovering of classified docs hidden from public
- Then it all blew up in their faces
NY Times Just Revealed Who Came up With WH's Slow Roll of Biden Docs Story
With a new story published Friday by the New York Times, though, many of these seemingly separate puzzle pieces are fitting together. And there was a major revelation to be culled from the NY Times’ report, which I only saw thanks to a new piece from my Hot Air colleague John Sexton. He highlights exactly who inside the White House public relations team pushed for this slow roll scheme–and it’s a name many long-time political watchers will recognize:
Sexton then dropped this excerpt from the piece: [emphasis mine]
Now, let’s back up a little and look at what we have here: Richard Sauber, who said he (conveniently) happened to find more documents where they weren’t supposed to be–even after the WH assured us the search for classified documents was complete; Joe Biden’s own sister; another presidential attorney, Bob Bauer; and Bauer’s wife, Anita Dunn.
Sexton reminds us why Dunn’s name will seem like deja vu to some readers:
In other words it was no accident that the White House and Joe Biden aren’t prepared for media questions about this–they never thought they would get caught in this mess, once the Justice Department reviewed any documents. You might say Dunn and the rest of them… chose poorly.
More revelations about Biden’s mishandling of classified and top-secret documents
The following are the key aspect of the revelations:
Biden’s attorney Pat Moore discovered the classified material at Biden’s think tank and notified the White House Counsel’s Office, which in turn contacted the National Archives.
By mid-November, a senior official at the DOJ’s national security division wrote to Bob Bauer, Biden’s personal attorney, requesting his cooperation with the DOJ’s inquiry.
The DOJ official requested that Biden’s legal team secure the documents already recovered from Biden’s think tank but refrain from further reviewing the documents or other classified documents discovered elsewhere.
The DOJ official then requested that Bauer give the DOJ formal consent to review the materials discovered at Biden’s think tank and that he provide a list of other locations where relevant materials might be stored.
This is quite amazing.
Despite the discovery of top secret documents which could lead to a national security threat, the DOJ displayed no urgency. They worked as subordinates to Biden’s lawyers, meekly making requests and waiting for answers when it was their duty to take the lead to immediately recover any other documents possibly left at other locations and review the material working closely with the National Archives.
The WaPo claims that Biden’s team ‘adopted a strategy of caution and deference, making only limited moves in coordination with federal investigators to determine the number of documents involved, their significance, and how they were mishandled.’
Despite a potential national security threat, all involved were more concerned about managing public perception.