More 'Surge'

[Larry Gude]

Screw that...

The biggest problem folks in the military have is the false sense of security that constant paycheck can bring. I have seen it over and over - folks over extending themselves. Buying the big cars, TVs, having too many kids. I'm not going to disagree our military folks (particularly our enlisted) are underpaid. But the pay can be quite reasonable if you learn to stay within your means. There is also what's called the TSP (Thrift Savings Plan). It's like a 401k for the military. And the education opportunities are amazing. The tuition assistance is now at 100%. This means the military will cover your complete tuition. There are stipulations (like number of credit hours, and you must pass), but where else are you going to get a free college education? And most of the technical training we receive is creditable. If military folks take advantage of these programs, they can do rather well.

...under President Gude everyone in the military would get a 100% raise over 10 years and the private contracting of military jobs would come to a halt, reduce by equal increments over 5 years.

 

[PsyOps]

...under President Gude everyone in the military would get a 100% raise over 10 years and the private contracting of military jobs would come to a halt, reduce by equal increments over 5 years.

Well Mr. President, you'd put me out of a job, thank you very much.

 

[Larry Gude]

Why?

Well Mr. President, you'd put me out of a job, thank you very much.

....are you guarding something?

 

[Coventry17]

You're right and that was a mistake too. There was an added bonus with Clinton though... It didn't take long for folks in the military to feel the president's sentiments of the military. He hated the military. They were a thorn in his side. Did you know Clinton tried to do away with high-ranking military members wearing their uniforms to office WH functions? He rarely saluted the marine standing outside of AF 1 or Marine 1. He had very little respect for those that fought so hard to keep him in tune with national security.

I was fortunate enough to be chosen sailor of the year on my ship in 1995. When Clinton came to our base (Yokosuka, Japan), all of the SOY's of the major commands got to meet him up close and personal prior to his speech given on the flight deck of the USS Independence. I found him to be very genuine and very appreciative of everyone there that day in uniform. Conversely, I found his wife to be cold and quite unfriendly. She seemed genuinely put out that she was having to interact with "common folk".

BTW... it wasn't "right-sizing". It was a draw-down due to the fall of the USSR. The cold war was over and we no longer had a need for a large military... so they thought.

Right-sizing wasn't my term, that was the buzzword when I was stationed in Japan. No, I certainly don't think we've got the equipment or the troops for the missions that we're trying to execute. It was very frustrating being stationed on a ship that was forward deployed with about 75% manning and unable to order replacement parts for broken gear because we had no money.

It was Clinton's first task as CINC to start his big social experiment with the military by allowing gays in.

1. Not true. Clinton never proposed "letting gays in the military". He said that commanders were wasting time trying to weed gays out and put in a policy that as long as they did their thing behind closed doors, it was their business. Did you know that more gays were kicked out of the military during Clinton's term in office than any other presidency?

2. What social experiment? You live and work around gays now, and you have all your life.

3. I have no problem with gay people in the military, or in any other walk of life for that matter. I've got more to worry about than who's sleeping with whom.

Right size? Do we seem like we are the right size now?

No, but we're trying to lose a few pounds.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ohmygod!!!!

meet him up close and personal prior to his speech given on the flight deck of the USS Independence.

RUN!!!! RUN!!!!

 

[forestal]

But, but, but John McCain says its safe to walk the streets of Baghdad, and George Bush says we're making progress....

how can all this be?

Could it be our elected officials are afraid with being tarred and feathered with the worst military blunder in 2000 years?

mmmm, could be!

There's a very good article in the latest edition of "Time" that paints a very bleak picture of the current condition of the U.S. Army. Extended deployments and poor budgeting strategies are really crippling our armed forces.

 

[forestal]

Yes, government jobs have the same benefit (without the getting shot at part, usually): A salary you can count on, but its up to you to plan how to spend it wisely.

There has always been a high-year tenure in the miltiary. If you aren't promoted within a certain rank by a certain time in service you're out. They've actually raised those several times while I was in.

The biggest problem folks in the military have is the false sense of security that constant paycheck can bring. I have seen it over and over - folks over extending themselves. Buying the big cars, TVs, having too many kids. I'm not going to disagree our military folks (particularly our enlisted) are underpaid. But the pay can be quite reasonable if you learn to stay within your means. There is also what's called the TSP (Thrift Savings Plan). It's like a 401k for the military. And the education opportunities are amazing. The tuition assistance is now at 100%. This means the military will cover your complete tuition. There are stipulations (like number of credit hours, and you must pass), but where else are you going to get a free college education? And most of the technical training we receive is creditable. If military folks take advantage of these programs, they can do rather well.

 

[Larry Gude]

What if that's...

But, but, but John McCain says its safe to walk the streets of Baghdad, and George Bush says we're making progress....

how can all this be?

...that exactly accurate? Does Nancy Assad Pelosi have a better plan that WILL make the streets of Baghdad safe for good, honest citizens?

And this is not the biggest military blunder in 200 years. Cold Harbor was far worse.

 

[Idiot]

And this is not the biggest military blunder in 200 years. Cold Harbor was far worse.

It's always worse when it's a civil war. Look at Iraq right now. Sooner or later there will be another one come along that will be worse. The way this country is going it may not be too far off.

 

[Idiot]

He could just contract it out to Blackwater.

By then Blackwater may run the whole damn country anyway.

Air Force sanctions officers for Blackwater confrontation

Even though they won't face a court-martial, two Air Force officers involved in a road-rage incident with a Blackwater USA contractor in Afghanistan have been slapped with administrative sanctions.

The discipline was meted out by the same general who dismissed criminal charges against Lt. Cols. Gary Brown and Christopher Hall.

Brown's civilian attorney has fired back with an angry letter, calling the sanctions a "laugh-out-loud joke" and suggesting that the general bowed to pressure from Blackwater, a private military company based in Moyock, N.C.

Let's just out-source the entire military.

What the he!! are we doing?

 

[Kerad]

By then Blackwater may run the whole damn country anyway.



Let's just out-source the entire military.

What the he!! are we doing?

Not to take sides with the 'Tards In Charge, but...imagine how short-manned we'd be in Iraq if not for the contractors.

Scary.

 

[Idiot]

Not to take sides with the 'Tards In Charge, but...imagine how short-manned we'd be in Iraq if not for the contractors.

Scary.

Unfortunately all we have to rely on is our imagination.

How many of them are over there? How much are we paying them? Whats to stop them from leaving at any time? Do they take an oath? To who? Are they going to leave when the military does? When does their contract expire? Does the UCMJ apply to them?

Those a just a few of the many questions I would have.



I say it again... What the he!! are we doing?

 

[Kerad]

Unfortunately all we have to rely on is our imagination.

How many of them are over there? How much are we paying them? Whats to stop them from leaving at any time? Do they take an oath? To who? Are they going to leave when the military does? When does their contract expire? Does the UCMJ apply to them?

Those a just a few of the many questions I would have.



I say it again... What the he!! are we doing?

THis has been discussed before..but, for this purpose...

The contractors fill the void between what the U.S. Military can/is allowed to do..and what is needed.

It's not the Marines or Army's job to bodyguard the Iraqii President/Parliament members, etc.. (Actually, it's not their job to be occupiers/police either...but, I've had that conversation before.) Contractors fill this void. contractors can also do the "stay at home" work to free up military members for combat/convoy protection duty.

Most, if not all of these contractors are military vets who have all volunteered to go help the cause.

 

[protectmd]

The military has alot of problems but they are also working to fix alot of the problems and are currently doing so and will in the future.

Since Bush has been president everything for the military has improved. Funding for training, supplies, and more manpower has improved. They are currently always upgrading and fixing the medical system Walter Reed does not represent the entire military medical system. Blackwater fills the gaps as far as guarding civilian contractors as security, and guarding foreign diplomats (doing jobs that nobody in their right mind would do). However... they are also paid as such. Even though they don't have rules of engagement they can still be charged with crimes by overseas authorities... unlike the military which does have rules of engagement and can be up for court martial so they walk on ice everyday, hoping that the mass media doesn't find another way to portray them in a bad light.

Tuition funding is 100 percent however, anyone who goes active duty and does alot of deployments 3/4 will have little to no time for school. The pay for enlisted isn't anywhere near their civilian counterparts. Most of them qualify for food stamps... I will say the attitudes are starting to change as far as how people are treated in the military as well. Things are improving... they are realizing that you cannot put people in substandard living conditions (pay, housing, barracks, etc) as well as their families and expect them to live that way for 20 years or more.

The military is any kind of force they want it to be. Whether its occupation, humanitarian, urban warfare, unconventional warfare, you name it, they are and can do any mission successfully with the support of the country as well as the government (funding wise).

More can be done though. Donations of supplies to overseas units (body armor, hi capacity magazines, etc), finding ways to volunteer your time to veterans organizations back at home and calling your politicians letting them know that you do care about the Veterans Administration (quit cutting their budget)...

The military has its good and bad points, however realize that most of the people who are in congress right now have never served in the military yet they control alot of the stuff as far as what goes on with it, so how do they have any conception as to what goes on with it? What makes them the expert as far as deciding how much of a budget/manpower the military needs? Its not like they've done their time.

 

[Idiot]

THis has been discussed before..but, for this purpose...

The contractors fill the void between what the U.S. Military can/is allowed to do..and what is needed.

It's not the Marines or Army's job to bodyguard the Iraqii President/Parliament members, etc.. (Actually, it's not their job to be occupiers/police either...but, I've had that conversation before.) Contractors fill this void. contractors can also do the "stay at home" work to free up military members for combat/convoy protection duty.

Most, if not all of these contractors are military vets who have all volunteered to go help the cause.

That's nice.

But it doesn't answer any of my questions.

 

[Idiot]

The military has its good and bad points, however realize that most of the people who are in congress right now have never served in the military yet they control alot of the stuff as far as what goes on with it, so how do they have any conception as to what goes on with it? What makes them the expert as far as deciding how much of a budget/manpower the military needs? Its not like they've done their time.

At least a few people in Congress served in the military. What about the White House? Couldn't hack it stateside in the TANG... Five deferments...

What makes them an expert about ANYTHING having to do with the military?

Congress is just as qualified to do their jobs as the White House is to do their's. That may not be much on both counts but unfortunately that's what we're stuck with.

 

[Larry Gude]

That is one of the things...

Not to take sides with the 'Tards In Charge, but...imagine how short-manned we'd be in Iraq if not for the contractors.

Scary.

...that I hold as a huge mistake on the part of the administration. If you need 100,000 troops you MUST plan on having 200,000 and be working on more, the pipeline. This is not some private sector project where efficiency and profit motive produce the leanest, most effective outcome. This is a federal, national project. More is more. Every single face in a war needs to be a soldier with the same motivation; following orders, not following an ulterior motive; profit.

 

[forestal]

The military has alot of problems but they are also working to fix alot of the problems and are currently doing so and will in the future.

Since Bush has been president everything for the military has improved.

Hey, you're right! Things are improving!

Bush cares!

An about-face on honoring fallen troops

US now sends bodies home via charter jet

By Bill Poovey, Associated Press | April 7, 2007

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. -- In a reversal by the US government four years into the war in Iraq, America's fallen troops are being brought back to their families aboard charter jets instead of ordinary commercial flights, and the caskets are being met by honor guards in white gloves instead of baggage handlers with forklifts.

That change -- which took effect quietly in January and also applies to members of the US military killed in Afghanistan -- came after a campaign waged by a father who was aghast to learn that his son's body was going to be unloaded like luggage.

 

[Kerad]

That's nice.

But it doesn't answer any of my questions.

No, I guess it didn't. There was a thread here where this was discussed a bit. Maybe it'll help....but probably not.

 

[Idiot]

Every single face in a war needs to be a soldier with the same motivation; following orders, not following an ulterior motive; profit.

I totally agree. The fact that that even needs to be said is just amazing to me.