itsbob
I bowl overhand
I sense a lot of hate in this one... their fairytale is different than your so you are told to hate them... nice.
Mormons and polygamy
- Thread starter libby
- Start date
I sense a lot of hate in this one... their fairytale is different than your so you are told to hate them... nice.
Well, I do take issue with changes in doctrine, it is one reason I firmly believe in the Catholic Church. However, I ask questions but hope to never condemn, because sometimes there is "the other side of the story", as it were. For instance, many Bible Christians claim that Catholic doctrine has changed; an example is the Immaculate Conception. The Catholic response to that is that it was always believed, yet not formally defined until a challenge was presented, i.e. the Reformation.
Or, as I said earlier, perhaps the LDS definition of doctrine is not the same as the Catholic definition, which, IMO, still has the LDS church on shaky ground as far as possessing some claim to absolute truth, but that's another subject.
hotcoffee
New Member
I haven't finished the book yet.... but I'm working on it....
In the meanwhile.... I see why some might want to be this mean.... you're afraid that there might be a danger. I'm sure you would have fit right in with the Pharisees that dogged our Savior, saying He was working for Satan.
Sure.... Joseph Smith might have made a few wrong turns.... then again... maybe he did what he was told to do.... I wasn't there so I don't know....
I do believe there were others on the face of the planet who geographically could not receive the message directly from Biblical Prophets....
Should they go blindly in the darkness... Wouldn't God have sent them prophets and teachers as well?
If the continents shifted during the fall of Sodom [which is very possible], what would happen to the humans left on the continent across the oceans.... did they have to wait until the explorers and pirates brought them the good news?
Think about it.... Is it possible that a remnant of the tribe that was saved when Noah built the ark got stranded on another continent? Is it possible [even probable] that God had a plan to get the good news to them as well?
You, Stonethrower, talk about the biblical citations against cussing and then you post a miserable nasty screaming hateful thing like this instead of using the love of Christ to help those you deem to be blind.
You claim to have read the book of Mormon.... I'm in the 15th chapter of Helaman.... that's about 5 years before the birth of Christ.... I've seen the first commandment guide a society through some pretty horrible times.... These people follow the commandments or they suffer.... isn't that the same story as the Biblical Old Testament? The preachers [priests they are called] all talk about a Savior coming.... isn't that what the Biblical Prophets were talking about? If they were on another continent... would God leave them out?
Why would God leave out people who were geographically unable to hear the words of the Biblical Prophets? Doesn't He desire that all should have the information they would need to choose to follow Him?
Does God leave out the gays, lesbians, transvestites, trans-genders, adulterers, thieves, drunkards, liars, and murderers? Why wouldn't He have a plan for those who got stuck in a place where they could not hear the words of Isaiah for themselves... first hand.... or stand along the road watching Jesus beaten and bloody struggling to carry the cross?
Sure... you'll call it and alternate Gospel.... I haven't ruled that out because I haven't read the whole book yet.... but let me tell you... I know some Mormons who have a deep relationship with Christ that shames a lot of Bible toting babblers who say very nasty things and toot their own horns by quoting their own preaching.
After writing this morning I continued to read.... Helaman 16 seemed to just talk to me.... I left the link here for those of you who are brave enough to take a gander.... maybe you'll find it interesting.... I'm putting this here because I think Stonethrower's post was so nasty....
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Larry Gude
Strung Out
Comments like that make it perfectly understandable how, over time, folks sought to use any weapon they could, including imaginary powers, to tell people...
...you can't do that.
Yuck.
Zguy28
New Member
Titus 1 calls Christians to "rebuke them sharply" in regards to false teachers. Read it yourself.I haven't finished the book yet.... but I'm working on it....
In the meanwhile.... I see why some might want to be this mean.... you're afraid that there might be a danger. I'm sure you would have fit right in with the Pharisees that dogged our Savior, saying He was working for Satan.
Sure.... Joseph Smith might have made a few wrong turns.... then again... maybe he did what he was told to do.... I wasn't there so I don't know....
I do believe there were others on the face of the planet who geographically could not receive the message directly from Biblical Prophets....
Should they go blindly in the darkness... Wouldn't God have sent them prophets and teachers as well?
If the continents shifted during the fall of Sodom [which is very possible], what would happen to the humans left on the continent across the oceans.... did they have to wait until the explorers and pirates brought them the good news?
Think about it.... Is it possible that a remnant of the tribe that was saved when Noah built the ark got stranded on another continent? Is it possible [even probable] that God had a plan to get the good news to them as well?
You, Stonethrower, talk about the biblical citations against cussing and then you post a miserable nasty screaming hateful thing like this instead of using the love of Christ to help those you deem to be blind.
You claim to have read the book of Mormon.... I'm in the 15th chapter of Helaman.... that's about 5 years before the birth of Christ.... I've seen the first commandment guide a society through some pretty horrible times.... These people follow the commandments or they suffer.... isn't that the same story as the Biblical Old Testament? The preachers [priests they are called] all talk about a Savior coming.... isn't that what the Biblical Prophets were talking about? If they were on another continent... would God leave them out?
Why would God leave out people who were geographically unable to hear the words of the Biblical Prophets? Doesn't He desire that all should have the information they would need to choose to follow Him?
Does God leave out the gays, lesbians, transvestites, trans-genders, adulterers, thieves, drunkards, liars, and murderers? Why wouldn't He have a plan for those who got stuck in a place where they could not hear the words of Isaiah for themselves... first hand.... or stand along the road watching Jesus beaten and bloody struggling to carry the cross?
Sure... you'll call it and alternate Gospel.... I haven't ruled that out because I haven't read the whole book yet.... but let me tell you... I know some Mormons who have a deep relationship with Christ that shames a lot of Bible toting babblers who say very nasty things and toot their own horns by quoting their own preaching.
After writing this morning I continued to read.... Helaman 16 seemed to just talk to me.... I left the link here for those of you who are brave enough to take a gander.... maybe you'll find it interesting.... I'm putting this here because I think Stonethrower's post was so nasty....
In Galatians 1, Paul says that all who hold to a different gospel should be anathema. Read it yourself.
This includes LDS folks who hold to a different gospel. Therefore they are rejected.
The fact that you even entertain what is abundantly clear a different gospel is worrisome to say the least. This is proof in point of what happens when feelings are given higher value than truth.
How is an individual supposed to discern "feeling" from some movement of the Holy Spirit? What makes your personal interpretation correct and HC's incorrect? This is the crux of all that Radiant1 brings to these discussions over and over: authority.
hotcoffee
New Member
It doesn't sound different so far.... and it doesn't feel different [like some of the other stuff I've read over the years].... but... I haven't finished the book yet....
OK... I know what Galations teaches... and Jesus Himself there would be those who show up and claim to be Him... there were people baptizing in His name while He was alive... the disciples complained to Him about it... and He said "those who aren't against us are for us".
So far in the book... they aren't against Him... as a matter of fact... they are following God's Commandments....
I haven't finished the book but I haven't seen anything that is contrary so far.... we'll see... and I'll definitely point it out if/when I do... but so far... it all seems to be ok.... not an alternate... but an additional....
Zguy28
New Member
In Titus 1 and Galatians 1 there is no interpretation needed. It says what it says.
Authority lies in the teachings of the apostles which is the New Testament. Authority also lies in the elders of the church. When they run contrary to the teachings, it is the responsibility of the other elders or leaders to rebuke them. Paul did not mince words with regards to false teachers. Don't think I don't understand your point of view and why you hold it.
Again I find the questions in my head swirling around:
What would the Apostles have thought of the church during Cyprian's time? Would they have been surprised how different it may have been?
What would the Apostles have thought of the Reformation and Reformation-era Catholic church? Or the modern church?
Would they be surprised, shocked, etc. by the doctrines, dogma, and practices of Protestantism, Roman Catholicism, and/or the Eastern Orthodox as they stood in the 1500's and today?
Maybe they would anathematize us all.
Why yuck? (Seriously)
hotcoffee
New Member
I don't use the teaching of the Apostles exclusively... mortals all of them.... I use the words of Jesus the Messiah.... Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, the light".
So I say.... if it's Christ centered.... if Christ is the way and God will be glorified.... then that is my guide.... Jesus.... not the Apostles... not the Prophets..... mortals... humans... they can get it wrong.... Judas was an Apostle.... Satan entered into Judas and he turned Jesus over to the authorities.
The Apostles were working with the Holy Spirit as their guide.... how many people have wondered away from the guide?
No... I use Jesus.... He's the only one that really had the Father in Him.
I listen to what is being said... then I measure it by those questions...
- Does it glorify God?
- Does it point to Jesus the Messiah?
- Is it for Jesus or against Him?
Zguy28
New Member
Who do you think were chosen by Jesus and recorded His words?The apostles were His authoritative messengers to the world. A unique bunch.
hotcoffee
New Member
The apostles were His authoritative messengers to the world. A unique bunch.
I understand that they were chosen.... I believe that the Holy Spirit resides in them.... but humans are human.... they make mistakes... they misunderstand.... they do their best.... they have excellent guidance [in the Holy Spirit] but they are Human.... prone to err.....
When I'm making a move based on what I "think" or "feel" or "believe" the Holy Spirit is telling me.... I go right back to the words of Jesus Himself....
Yes... they were His authoritative messengers.... and I do appreciate them as an extremely talented, gifted, and devout group of humans.... but they were humans who frustrated Jesus many many many times.....
Now when I can't find an answer in the 4 gospels.... then in prayer... I do read what the disciples [or Apostles] say on it.... but for the most part... their job was to continue the church right? John and Matthew wrote the gospels.... and they told us what Jesus said.... Luke was a doctor who no doubt consulted with the Apostles on the wording of his writings.... and Mark was a youth who wrote stories others told him as well .... right?
I appreciate their trials and their stature... but I check everything with the gospels.... because even the disciples had a problem with anyone else outside their group teaching the good news.... Jesus didn't have a problem with it.... and He gave them the guidelines to use to see if a human was teaching contrary to His teaching.... They were humans... prone to err....
So... yes... I do read what Matthew and John tell me that Jesus said.... but it's generally backed up with prophetic fulfillment....
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itsbob
I bowl overhand
What Bible do the Mormins use? How is their King James version Bible different from yours?
If you were 1/2 the Christian than most of the Mormons I know you wouldn't be full of so much hate and dicontent for others.
You're are Christian in name alone.. you may as well be a Muslim with all the hate younspew for those that beleive in a fairy tale slightly different than yours, and much more alike than different.
hotcoffee
New Member
Since the Mormons do believe in Jesus Christ is the Son of the One and Only God.... Creator of Heaven and Earth.....
Since the Mormons do believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah... The Savior....
Since the Mormons do read, study, and understand the same Bible we use...
Since the Mormons do believe that Jesus Christ, the only Begotten Son of God, died in order to atone for our sins and rose again from the dead....
I am confused.... I don't see how Titus 1 or Galatians 1 applies here....
Please explain... clear it up in a kind, gentle, and understanding way based on gospel scriptures for me.... I'd really appreciate it.... if you would be so kind... after prayer and study....
Zguy28
New Member
Why do you hate Christians, and in particular baptists so much?
itsbob
I bowl overhand
Nice try.. but you need to try harder to cover up the hatred you have for your fellow Christians.
Zguy28
New Member
here is a sampling of what Mormons believe, at least according to their own writings. I freely admit I pasted it from another site: carm.org.Since the Mormons do believe in Jesus Christ is the Son of the One and Only God.... Creator of Heaven and Earth.....
Since the Mormons do believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah... The Savior....
Since the Mormons do read, study, and understand the same Bible we use...
Since the Mormons do believe that Jesus Christ, the only Begotten Son of God, died in order to atone for our sins and rose again from the dead....
I am confused.... I don't see how Titus 1 or Galatians 1 applies here....
Please explain... clear it up in a kind, gentle, and understanding way based on gospel scriptures for me.... I'd really appreciate it.... if you would be so kind... after prayer and study....
God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321; Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-614; Orson Pratt, Journal of Discourses, vol. 2, p. 345; Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 7, p. 333).
God resides near a star called Kolob, (Pearl of Great Price, p. 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428).
"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s..." (Doctrines and Covenants 130:22).
God is in the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, vol. 6, p. 3).
"God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!!! . . . We have imagined that God was God from all eternity. I will refute that idea and take away the veil, so that you may see," (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345).
After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 345-347, 354.)
There is a mother god, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443).
God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 516).
Do you think that these represent the God of Christianity? Search the Scriptures and see if those contradict it.
Zguy28
New Member
You can disagree with somebody and not hate them. This seems to be something you are unable to grasp. May God bless you.
itsbob
I bowl overhand
If God exists, he's a "being" if you believe God exists, where does he exist?
You should dig a little deeper into the Mormon theology and maybe you'd understand.
If God has a son, and spirit children where do they come from? Wouldn't it make sense that these children have a mother too? Who would that mother be? Or are all of God's children and the spirits that reside with him all bastard children?
The Mormons take an 'oath' annually that the Bible is true... the BIBLE. They also beleive that we don't have all the truth, and neither do they, that as time goes on more is to be revealed.. the Bible tells the story of one "tribe" from Israel, and one lineage.
The Book of Mormom follows another tribe (isn't it curious that the Bible only speaks of people in the Middle East, yet we KNOW the entire Earth was inhabited at the time?) I would assume there would HAVE to be other stories, other blood lines, and other tribes in the world that books could be written about.
It just makes sense that if you believe in one fairy tale that you should believe in another. Kind of silly and stupid to make fun of anothers beliefs when your own are no less and no.more far fetched.