Narcan

[Chris0nllyn]

If the bartender sees the patron getting $hitfaced, its up to the bartender to stop serving the patron. If not, when the patron leaves and kills somebody due to drunk driving, the bar owner and bartender can all be fined for serving said patron. Maybe doctors should pay a little more attention to what they are prescribing and to whom. Instead of prescribing say, 30 pills, they dole out 5. If the patient needs more, they have to come into the office, submit some blood work and maybe try something else for pain modification.

The govt. stepped up enforcement of these sorts of practices. They began cracking down on "doctor shopping" and doctors who over-prescribe years ago. Right about the time heroin use began to rise.

When OxyContin first came out, their sales videos claimed about a 1% of becoming addicted. Their sales pitches were found to be disingenuous and Purdue Pharma (their manufacturer) was forced to pay over $630 million in fines.

 

[black dog]

If the bartender sees the patron getting $hitfaced, its up to the bartender to stop serving the patron. If not, when the patron leaves and kills somebody due to drunk driving, the bar owner and bartender can all be fined for serving said patron. Maybe doctors should pay a little more attention to what they are prescribing and to whom. Instead of prescribing say, 30 pills, they dole out 5. If the patient needs more, they have to come into the office, submit some blood work and maybe try something else for pain modification.

That would be Dram Shop Laws, I don't believe that Maryland has any Drama Shop Laws. Most states do, but I don't believe that Maryland has enacted any that involve adults.

 

[luvmygdaughters]

That would be Dram Shop Laws, I don't believe that Maryland has any Drama Shop Laws. Most states do, but I don't believe that Maryland has enacted any that involve adults.

You're right, but, I think if doctors were accountable for the amount of prescription pain killers given to the same individual, it may help with the problem.

 

[black dog]

You're right, but, I think if doctors were accountable for the amount of prescription pain killers given to the same individual, it may help with the problem.

Oh I agree.. you are starting to see pee and blood testing being done to check on the volume of prescribed drugs in the system before a new prescription is issued.

 

[3CATSAILOR]

So the Health Department gives it away, but tax payers pay for it.

I have been told Police and EMT must pay for it out of their budget.
Anyone know what it costs?

I have been told 800$ a dose. Can anyone confirm?

And the worst part is in some areas our ambulances go on overdose calls about a dozen times a day. However, when the addicts start taking the stronger drugs that are starting to hit the streets, I doubt the ambulances will get there in time. Saving a life is always a good thing. But, each life saved must be followed up with intensive treatment to get the addict off of the drugs. If this is not done, common sense would dictate that the addict will simple return to the drug and then the process repeats itself. Sooner or later, without treatment the addict will OD beyond a recovery point. Believe it or not, the addicts are now people of all walks of life. The frightening part is more and more are getting behind the wheel and driving while high. Although the vast majority of the cases of people leaving the "travel portion of the roadway" are caused by those that choose to text and drive, some are actually the addicts that are high and then loose control of their car. I do not know whether or not our LE follows up on the accidents to determine why a person left the travel portion of the road. I guess they have other things to do.

 

[black dog]

I hate to inform you, addicts have always been " All walks of Life "

 

[officeguy]

You're right, but, I think if doctors were accountable for the amount of prescription pain killers given to the same individual, it may help with the problem.

They already are. The flipside of that coin is that it has become increasingly difficult for legit pain patients to receive both prescriptions and the actual meds. With all the pill-poppers, docs are often hesitant to write scriptsfor opiates and if they do, the pharmacies frequently dont carry the meds.

 

[PrchJrkr]

They already are. The flipside of that coin is that it has become increasingly difficult for legit pain patients to receive both prescriptions and the actual meds. With all the pill-poppers, docs are often hesitant to write scriptsfor opiates and if they do, the pharmacies frequently dont carry the meds.

Chronic pain makes everyday actions very painful for many people, but because of the abuse potential, care givers resort to writing prescriptions for NSAIDs. I can tell you from personal experience that they do absolutely nothing for some people. The possible side effects are enough to scare many from even trying them.

 

[BernieP]

I hate to inform you, addicts have always been " All walks of Life "

People prefer not to believe that. Addicts and dealers are NIMBY. Hate to break the news to them, they are.

Most addicts, like the hardcore alcoholic usually lose their ability to hide the problem, work slips, or they slip up.
Listen to the sober ones talk, part of their recovery is to tell their story. They are successful in hiding it for a while, but then money problems start to become a major issue. Maybe it's just that the family tears up their credit cards and controls their bank account, etc.
That's when even the best person resorts to theft to feed their habit - drugs or alcohol.
Just drying them out doesn't solve the problem, once they admit they have a problem (with drugs and/or alcohol) then they have to submit themselves to treatment for the root cause of their addiction.
They can't be forced into seeing a doctor (medical). Problem is, there are very few psychiatrists in the region, even fewer will deal with addicts and even fewer will deal with a person under the age of 21.

 

[black dog]

People prefer not to believe that. Addicts and dealers are NIMBY. Hate to break the news to them, they are.

Most addicts, like the hardcore alcoholic usually lose their ability to hide the problem, work slips, or they slip up.
Listen to the sober ones talk, part of their recovery is to tell their story. They are successful in hiding it for a while, but then money problems start to become a major issue. Maybe it's just that the family tears up their credit cards and controls their bank account, etc.
That's when even the best person resorts to theft to feed their habit - drugs or alcohol.
Just drying them out doesn't solve the problem, once they admit they have a problem (with drugs and/or alcohol) then they have to submit themselves to treatment for the root cause of their addiction. .

I have family members that have been functioning alcoholics for 50+ years, from lowly factory rats to small business owners to a vice president of a 500 company.
All are habitual clock watchers, All have to have that drink or drinks starting at 5:10pm.
None have lost their homes or other property because of being a alcoholic.
Not all addicts​ loose everything and end up on the street.
My family genetics on both sides have that drinking gene, for some unknown reason my youngest sister and myself are teetotalers.

 

[Bann]

What's driving it is (a) the lack of mental health services, i.e. medical doctors and (b) cheap heroin. It's become the drug of choice for those with untreated mental health issues.
Not as cheap as alcohol, but cheaper than pills.

I think people should have an IQ/Ignorance card in their pocket, those with a certain score don't get emergency services. A lot of you would be left to die.

Overdoses are the everyday user, typically the overdose patient is one who has stopped using and falls off the wagon. Again, you might be happy to know, a group at highest risk is people just released from jail (that's where we send our drug addicts), because booze is a socially accepted way to destroy your life, we let alcoholics off the hook. Both diseases are treated in similar manner. Root cause of both are the same. Typically people with untreated depression and/or anxiety.

I know someone in jail right now, 26, who isn't in jail for addiction, but is most certainly an addict. (Heroin, weed, who knows what else). He is in jail for a slew of other things, really stupid things like continuously driving without a license, or registration, or insurance and the points piling up from driving/traffic infractions: NONE of which include DUI's, drugs, if you can believe that. Hard to believe, but true. This guy has messed up in all areas of his young life over & over. He's probably held a job at every fast food place or restaurant in the area - never keeping a job longer than a year, if he was lucky. Had a kid 2 months after graduating from HS, and while he adores the child, is a deadbeat father who is not motivated enough to keep a job to help support it. He is not with the babymomma. (Thank goodness, and she has moved on and found a good, decent guy.)

He most definitely has a mental illness - but HE won't accept treatment. I know this for a fact - he is a friend of our family. I also know he has had 1 overdose which the family never knew about until bills came to the mailbox while he was in jail.

He has NOT been a stellar prisoner. (He has been in since October and due to get out in a month) I am not sure how it is possible to not be a good prisoner, when you are locked up and have very basic rules for living and surviving. He messed up his work release privilege TWICE by stupid things: coming back late and something else I don't remember. He has had contraband he wasn't supposed to have - stupid crap like a pen or an extra book, or something stupid like that. (BUT!!! extremely easy to just not have and just follow the basic rules..but somehow, he won't) Once he smoked a freaking cigarette in jail and then lied that he didn't! In JAIL. How can you not follow simple basic rules?!

So, I have no illusions that when he gets out he will automatically revert to a model citizen. I hope he will seek treatment for his mental illness, but he doesn't seem motivated to do it.

I am quite sure he will use again, and his parents know it. It is only a matter of time.

 

[Bann]

Been in that situation several times myself (various surgeries). Always had a partial bottle of the prescriptions left over too.

Twice recently I had dental surgeries for a tooth implant and was prescribed oxy. I used ONE the first time and the 2nd time I didn't even fill it. And I am a total weenie when it comes to pain.

I also tried several methods to quit smoking, including patches, gum, etc. Quit cold turkey when my aunt had a heart attack.

So ...

 

[3CATSAILOR]

I hate to inform you, addicts have always been " All walks of Life "

No, that's a good point. The point here is the opiate addiction is no different. The primary difference here is that Narcan can be used to bring back those who have OD if used in a timely manner. It doesn't work something like cocaine OD.

 

[nobody really]

How do you determine the difference between an overdose that's going to kill them, and a high that you're getting ready to ruin?

I see all the facebook posts about parents overdosing.. or somebody behind the wheel overdosing.. but they don't look like they are overdosing to me.. they just look passed out and waiting for their high to pass before they do it again.

Serious question, how do you tell the difference? If they are breathing and their heart is still beating do you still give them Narcan??

WHO decided where are EMT's go? We have a limited number of rescue squads, and even more limited Emergency Care units. IF they get a call for an overdose, and a family man down in his front yard possibly having a heart attack who decides who gets the last ambulance available?? Will they divert an rescue squad on the way to an OD when a call like mentioned above comes in?? How about a family in a car accident?? Husband, wife and kids in need of emergency care??

that's what I was wondering, if the medic units are responding to that many overdoses....I can imagine there would be a shortage of emt's...

 

[PeoplesElbow]

I know someone in jail right now, 26, who isn't in jail for addiction, but is most certainly an addict. (Heroin, weed, who knows what else). He is in jail for a slew of other things, really stupid things like continuously driving without a license, or registration, or insurance and the points piling up from driving/traffic infractions: NONE of which include DUI's, drugs, if you can believe that. Hard to believe, but true. This guy has messed up in all areas of his young life over & over. He's probably held a job at every fast food place or restaurant in the area - never keeping a job longer than a year, if he was lucky. Had a kid 2 months after graduating from HS, and while he adores the child, is a deadbeat father who is not motivated enough to keep a job to help support it. He is not with the babymomma. (Thank goodness, and she has moved on and found a good, decent guy.)

He most definitely has a mental illness - but HE won't accept treatment. I know this for a fact - he is a friend of our family. I also know he has had 1 overdose which the family never knew about until bills came to the mailbox while he was in jail.

He has NOT been a stellar prisoner. (He has been in since October and due to get out in a month) I am not sure how it is possible to not be a good prisoner, when you are locked up and have very basic rules for living and surviving. He messed up his work release privilege TWICE by stupid things: coming back late and something else I don't remember. He has had contraband he wasn't supposed to have - stupid crap like a pen or an extra book, or something stupid like that. (BUT!!! extremely easy to just not have and just follow the basic rules..but somehow, he won't) Once he smoked a freaking cigarette in jail and then lied that he didn't! In JAIL. How can you not follow simple basic rules?!

So, I have no illusions that when he gets out he will automatically revert to a model citizen. I hope he will seek treatment for his mental illness, but he doesn't seem motivated to do it.

I am quite sure he will use again, and his parents know it. It is only a matter of time.

That is basically the story of all addicts, no matter how much you try to help them, no matter how much they want to change, no matter how much they love and respect you they won't listen, they are always a pain in the ass and doing things to hurt themselves and others.

 

[Clem72]

Difference none of that is illegal.

Always changing the argument and then trying to score points. There is no difference if the argument for not providing services is that the ailment was self caused (and that was the argument). It's a completely separate argument, and not one that I was addressing, that you should refuse services if the ailment was the result of an illegal act.

And that second argument is even dumber. So, we don't render aid to you if you are hit by a car while jay walking? What about if you are in a car wreck when you were doing 5 over the limit? What if you blow your fingers off with a firework you used this year (that is now illegal) that you had left over from last year, when it was still legal to purchase/use? What if you cut your wrist while illegally removing the tag from a mattress?

 

[BernieP]

That is basically the story of all addicts, no matter how much you try to help them, no matter how much they want to change, no matter how much they love and respect you they won't listen, they are always a pain in the ass and doing things to hurt themselves and others.

The best people to talk to are recovering (sober) addicts. They will tell you that they cannot be helped, you cannot rescue them. They have to hit rock bottom.
Believe it or not, jail isn't rock bottom. It's noting more than letting a drunk sleep it off. Problem with addicts is the next dose after they come off a dry period is typically the one they OD on.
The toughest part for the family of both the addict and alcoholic is letting them go, kicking them out. Not to make them a ward of the state, but to first off, protect themselves. Second, as long as they can sponge off of someone, they will.
As for treatment, it's a joke. Good mental health services are not readily available in the area. The number of psychiatrists is low, reduce that further by those willing to see children and then even further if there is an addiction.
Let's talk about cost. A lot of insurance plans won't pay for treatment or severely limit treatment. We aren't talking millionaires here.

Put them in the woods with the other homeless and decided whether it's shot them like rats or poison the food supply to control your undesirables population.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Chronic pain makes everyday actions very painful for many people, but because of the abuse potential, care givers resort to writing prescriptions for NSAIDs. I can tell you from personal experience that they do absolutely nothing for some people. The possible side effects are enough to scare many from even trying them.

I am the opposite, opiods did very little for the pain I had. I asked the doctor just for some strong Motrin and he looked at me like I had three heads. I called up a friend from college that is a biochemist for Teva Pharmaceutical to ask if there was anything I could do to make the hydrocodone more effective and he told me that unfortunately some drugs just don't work on some people and the only thing doctors can do is experiment with different drugs until they find one that works for them.

My dad took a ton of Oxycontin the last 4 years of his life, because there was a no refill law the doctor prescribed him 500 pills at a time, he would often take one or two Oxycontin, two Advil and two Tylenol at the same time and they eventually put him on an fentanyl patch. One thing that gets over looked is that opoids cause extreme constipation because the things that make the pain go away also keeps your intestines from knowing they are full and should move the turd down the road.

 

[BernieP]

I have not come across a doctor that "over prescribes" opiode based pain medication. From what I've seen they are very conservative.
The idea is to allow people in pain to function, to sleep, so they can heal. A little pain is a good thing, too much and you start to go into shock.
Again, from what I've seen / heard, doctors tend to give very little of the percoset, they tend to start off with the lightest dose they can and then step it down.

People aren't addicts because of prescribed drugs, no more than an alcoholic is because booze is legal.

 

[officeguy]

I have not come across a doctor that "over prescribes" opiode based pain medication. From what I've seen they are very conservative.
The idea is to allow people in pain to function, to sleep, so they can heal. A little pain is a good thing, too much and you start to go into shock.
Again, from what I've seen / heard, doctors tend to give very little of the percoset, they tend to start off with the lightest dose they can and then step it down.

People aren't addicts because of prescribed drugs, no more than an alcoholic is because booze is legal.

Yeah, and Rosie O'Donnel isn't fat because of spoons.

Prescribing of opiates is very lopsided. Iirc 2% of prescribers are responsible for 90% of the opiate scripts. Part of that is of course entirely legitimate as an oncologist or palliative care doc with a unusually large number of end of life cancer patients will have to prescribe more opiates than a family doc who specializes on non-surgical weight management. The real problem are the 'candyman' practices that use the pretense of 'pain management' to monetize the prescription of opiates. All the addicts know who to go to for a 30 day supply of 10 oxys per day. You pay your 'consultation fee' and walk out with a script 20 minutes later. The state board of pharmacy and is trying to crack down on those, as long as they dot their I's they are very difficult to move against. And all of that of course pales against the easy availability of heroin, heroin+fentanyl and other synthetic #### from china that are flooding the market.