NBC knows what normal Christians are like...

[MMDad]

If you say you have never sinned then you disagree with the Bible. All have sinned. If you have not received the Holy Spirit, if the Holy Spirit does not live within you, you have not been born again. You do not disagree with me. You disagree with God's word. Jesus is the One Who said you must be born again.

I never said I have never sinned. I admit it freely to you, my family, my wife, and my God. I am just questioning the fixation on the "born again" concept.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I never said I have never sinned. I admit it freely to you, my family, my wife, and my God. I am just questioning the fixation on the "born again" concept.

It is not my concept. Jesus, the One Who's birth we just celbrated, is the One Who said you must be born again. It is His concept. Contend with Him if you must.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Doesn't this show help people to understsand human nature? If we understand sin, but reject that sin and make the right choices, aren't we being better people? I don't think that I need to repent for understanding sinners. I need to repent for my own sins. There was one person who was responsible for other peoples sins, and we just celebrated His birth.

Sin is well understood. Humans have no problem sinning. A show about priests and others sinning will not bring glory to God. I see the premise of the show, disguised ever so lightly, as being made to tear down Christianity with "They're bad too." by using examples of "Christianity" that are not really Christian.

 

[MMDad]

It is not my concept. Jesus, the One Who's birth we just celbrated, is the One Who said you must be born again. It is His concept. Contend with Him if you must.

I understand it is not your concept. I just don't understand. If someone has been faithful and repentant throughout their life, and accepts Christ, how does "born again" fit in?

 

[MMDad]

Sin is well understood. Humans have no problem sinning. A show about priests and others sinning will not bring glory to God. I see the premise of the show, disguised ever so lightly, as being made to tear down Christianity with "They're bad too." by using examples of "Christianity" that are not really Christian.

Doesn't the concept of holy people having faults give the rest of us hope? We can feel that we are hopeless, or we can see that even the best people in our world are sinners yet they still try. That gives me hope. I disagree with some things the last Pope said, as well as the current Mormon Prophet. But I still believe that they mean (or meant) well. Shouldn't we doubt our clergy enough to analyze their teaching? If we can't be analytical, we'll all just drink the koolaid.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I understand it is not your concept. I just don't understand. If someone has been faithful and repentant throughout their life, and accepts Christ, how does "born again" fit in?

I ask you this question, is there evidence of the Holy Spirit living in you as explained in Acts 2? Have you received gifts of the Holy Spirit as outlined in 1 Corinthians 12? If not, then I think you have missed something that is ultimately important.

Pray about it. I have given what I have, God's word. Beyond that, there is nothing to give on this subject. I pray that you find God's answer.

 

[MMDad]

I ask you this question, is there evidence of the Holy Spirit living in you as explained in Acts 2? Have you received gifts of the Holy Spirit as outlined in 1 Corinthians 12? If not, then I think you have missed something that is ultimately important.

Pray about it. I have given what I have, God's word. Beyond that, there is nothing to give on this subject. I pray that you find God's answer.

I am comfortable with my relationship with God and Christ. I am concerned as a father. I believe that I should raise my children to be moral, ethical, and faithful.

At what point does the "born again" thing kick in? Why must someone be "born again" if they were repentant and faithful throughout their life?

 

[2ndAmendment]

Doesn't the concept of holy people having faults give the rest of us hope? We can feel that we are hopeless, or we can see that even the best people in our world are sinners yet they still try. That gives me hope. I disagree with some things the last Pope said, as well as the current Mormon Prophet. But I still believe that they mean (or meant) well. Shouldn't we doubt our clergy enough to analyze their teaching? If we can't be analytical, we'll all just drink the koolaid.

People who have faults are not holy. Seeing the failings of others does not bring hope. Following the perfection of Jesus is the only hope. Christians are called to be holy, but they are only holy through the perfection of Jesus. Salvation has nothing to do with our "trying" and everything to do with the grace of God.

I do not agree with any religion that has an authority other than the word of God. I have been to many denominations and have yet to find one that really follows the original church. Every church I have been to has a "doctrine" that is prescribed by men.

I read the Bible, pray, and trust God to lead me in His wisdom.

 

[2ndAmendment]

At what point does the "born again" thing kick in? Why must someone be "born again" if they were repentant and faithful throughout their life?

At the point of salvation. You are either born again according to Jesus or you are not of the kingdom of God. Seems pretty plain to me. Jesus said you MUST be born again. It really does not matter how many times you ask the question. If you don't agree with Jesus that you must be born again, there is nothing I can write to convince you.

Got to go to bed. Good night. God bless you with His wisdom.

 

[MMDad]

People who have faults are not holy. Seeing the failings of others does not bring hope. Following the perfection of Jesus is the only hope. Christians are called to be holy, but they are only holy through the perfection of Jesus. Salvation has nothing to do with our "trying" and everything to do with the grace of God.

I do not agree with any religion that has an authority other than the word of God. I have been to many denominations and have yet to find one that really follows the original church. Every church I have been to has a "doctrine" that is prescribed by men.

I read the Bible, pray, and trust God to lead me in His wisdom.

I absolutely agree with your rejection of "doctrine". Most of it is based upon a prejudiced interpretation that suits a goal. The bible is what it is, and should stand alone.

I'll agree to disagree with you about this show. It is meant for adults, in an adult timeslot, and is actually based on religion. I don't have a problem with it, but it is your right to disagree. I don't think I'll ever watch it because it sounds stupid, but it should be allowed to be shown.

I hope to argue (debate) with you again, but I think this one is done.

 

[2ndAmendment]

A synopsis of the "Book of Daniel" from a Christian perspective:

excerpt from DAILY DEVOTIONAL THURSDAY JANUARY 5, 2006 posted with permission

NBC's "The Book of Daniel" is the latest and boldest attempt by a TV program
on a major network to mock and demean the Christian faith. NBC claims that
their new program is a "serious program about Christian people and the
Christian faith." The message of this program is that Christians are
hypocrites, that our faith does not translate into our daily lives, and that
we live no differently from those who deny God, the Bible, and faith in
Jesus Christ. This program is designed to mock and demean those who have
given their hearts and lives to Jesus Christ by faith and embolden those who
deny the Lord that they have made the right decision! Of course, while they
are at it, they use this as another opportunity to reach the masses to
promote and glorify those who choose to commit the sin of homosexuality.

The lead character is a drug-addicted Episcopal Priest named Daniel Webster.
His wife is an alcoholic, his 23-year-old son a homosexual Republican, his
16-year-old daughter a drug dealer, and his 16-year-old step-son is having
sex with the Bishop's daughter. In addition, Webster's secretary is a
lesbian who is having sex with his sister-in-law. Throughout the program,
Webster sees and talks with a very unconventional and non-Biblical "Jesus."
This is NOT a serious portrayal of Christian people and the Christian faith
as NBC claims, but a portrayal of those who call themselves Christians yet
choose to live their lives in total rebellion to Christ and His Word!

Does a family like this fictional family exist? ABSOLUTELY! They are
classic examples of people who claim to be followers and servants of Christ,
yet do not live according to God's Word and their faith and whatever
relationship with Christ they may have makes no real difference in how they
live their daily lives. Jesus said, if you love me you will obey me. That
means His Word! When we choose to live our lives in rebellion to the Truth
of God's Word, claim to be followers of Christ but have no real relationship
with Him, are led by the flesh and not the Spirit, then our lives end up an
absolute mess just like these characters and we become the stereotypical
hypocrites that non-believers will point to as their excuse for rejecting
Christ and God's love.

Make no mistake about it, this is the ultimate agenda of this blasphemous TV
program. It is designed to empower, embolden, and strengthen the resolve of
those people who have made the choice to reject God, reject the Truth of the
Bible, and reject His Son Jesus Christ. Programs like this tell the lost
that they have made the correct decision in rejecting Christ and that
Christians live no different than they do. The worst thing about a program
like this is that it gives those who reject Jesus the false sense of
security that they are right. It helps them to justify their unbelief and
rejection of the Lord. Sadly, it makes their heart even more hardened to
the Truth causing them to die in their sin and be lost for all eternity

Faith without works is dead or no faith at all. If someone has faith in Jesus, their life will show that faith by what they do. If what a person does is not evident of the the Holy spirit living within them, then there is no true faith. James said it. Claiming to have faith without the actions of your life showing that faith is no faith at all. Even the demons and satan know that Jesus is the Son of God; they don't recognize Him a Savior and Lord.

James 2:14-26

¹⁴What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

¹⁵If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,

¹⁶and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?

¹⁷Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.

¹⁸But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

¹⁹You believe that God is one You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

²⁰But are you willing to recognize, you foolish fellow, that faith without works is useless?

²¹Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar?

²²You see that faith was working with his works, and as a result of the works, faith was perfected;

²³and the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "AND ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS," and he was called the friend of God.

²⁴You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

²⁵In the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?

²⁶For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

There is one exception as I see it; a confession of faith and acceptance of salvation just before death as happened with the thief on the cross.

Does this mean Christians must be perfect in all ways? No. It means Christians strive to be perfect and agree with God that we are not perfect.

Can we be saved by following all of the ten commandments from birth to death living a perfect life according to the law? I know of no one who can except Jesus.

The ten commandments are given to us to show us that we are not perfect and need something else. Prior to the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross for our sins, believing God was recognized by God as righteousness. Notice that it is believing God, not believing in God. Satan believes in God and comes before God's throne.

In our time, the time since the death and resurrection of Jesus, we need God's salvation through Jesus. That is His current plan as revealed through the Old and New Testaments. It is through our faith believing God and accepting His plan of salvation that we are saved. It is then that our faith will be evident in how we live our life. What we do to help others, striving to imitate the life of Christ, and what we say, proclaiming the gospel and not letting worthless words come from our lips, that will make our faith evident.

 

[Hessian]

Hits it on the head 2nd A!

I appreciate good writing: that little essay was very clear and hit the heart of the matter. Thanks.
As of now two NBC affiliates have preempted the show (one from public pressure) I am hoping more realize that it is NOT good programming.

Doesn't the network ever do a "post-season" assessment and try to figure out why shows flop? Do they just blame it on timeslots and other network competition...instead of millions of people saying: THIS IS TRASH.


sadly, there may be too many out there that thrive on trash.

 

[dustin]

I say let um run the show and lose lots of money when noone watches it.

There is no such thing as a family TV show anymore. IF you want family time, turn off the TV and do something with your family... play a game, go to the park, go to the library together, read a story outloud, talk about your day...you remember how it was back in the day...when you had 3 channels and one of them was fuzzy.

Peace, love, and chicken grease

 

[Railroad]

There is no such thing as a family TV show anymore. IF you want family time, turn off the TV and do something with your family... play a game, go to the park, go to the library together, read a story outloud, talk about your day...you remember how it was back in the day...when you had 3 channels and one of them was fuzzy.

Peace, love, and chicken grease

WELL said!

 

[Midnightrider]

here's the thing with that show..... its a TV show, so you know its make believe. When i watch the sopranos, i don't think thats really how mobsters are, but it is entertaining. When i watch ER i don't think, that how hospitals really are. And when i watch cop shows i dont think thats the way the police really are. The writers take artistic licsence, they make it more of everything to be more interesting. If the exagerations really bother you, think of it this way- all of those situations may not be happening in the pastors family, but they probably are in the congregation, so its not really that much of a stretch for the show. the other thing is, you have the power to turn it off anytime you want. It never even has to be on at your hose, i know there are plenty of shows i never watch

 

[Hessian]

What does the Wash Post say?

Totally avoiding the issue of offending to devout Christians:
They generally say it was trashy, unrealistic, and inane.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/05/AR2006010502423.html

Let the dogs lie with the dogs.

 

[MMDad]

Totally avoiding the issue of offending to devout Christians:
They generally say it was trashy, unrealistic, and inane.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/05/AR2006010502423.html

Let the dogs lie with the dogs.

For once the left wing rag got it right. I accidently left the TV tuned to that channel as I was doing other things, but once I realized how stupid it was I turned the channel. The public outrage probably gave it some early ratings, but the low quality will doom it. The thing they don't seem to realize is that the people who would want to watch a show about drugs, alcoholism, homosexuality, and incest don't want to watch a show about a priest. If people can stop talking about it, it will be gone before the end of the month.

 

[nomoney]

I watched it and didn't think it was all that bad? It even got a chuckle or two out of me

 

[mv_princess]

I watched it and didn't think it was all that bad? It even got a chuckle or two out of me

yeah i saw it...........thought it wasn't that bad........

 

[Schizo]

This post is like when there was uproar over the show "Amish in the City" or something like it. Prior to the show being broadcasted, it was much maligned by the press and people.... yadeyadeyadahyadha about how it exploits the Amish :blah: :blah: :blah:

Turned out to be a good show and was informative.

And how about the Grand Theft Auto video games... must have sex with prostitutes to get health back and then rob them. Kill everyone to gain respect, etc. Bunch of BS from people who don't bother checking things out before posting about them.

BTW, I didn't watch the show.

Guess I have no business posting on this.