O.d.d.

[vraiblonde]

I really should dismiss this child.

This.

 

[happyappygirl]

Attitudes like this prove why there are so many abused kids in this world. Had my daughter bought into all that mess, her AUTISTIC child might have been dead from the beatings she would have received. Autistic children are pretty much immune to pain. They don't perceive it in the same way other kids do. She laughed at a spanking. Still does.

Instead my daughter changed pediatricians, and finally had her daughter diagnosed correctly at age 2. By age 3 she was in an early intervention program in the public school system with an IEP, and now at 4 - 1/2 is a different kid. She's still Autistic, there is no cure, but she's learning, and is a delight to be around. We've also learned along the way how best to deal with these children.

Instead of making your own lame diagnosis, you should sit the mom down and figure out how you can help her find a way to help her child, and you as his provider. I can put you in touch with my daughter, and she can tell you how she went about making the public school system help her. It's a long hard drawn out war, but she's winning it, one little battle at a time.

Kennedy Kreeger is a great place to start. This kid needs his own child advocate.

 

[Vince]

Attitudes like this prove why there are so many abused kids in this world. Had my daughter bought into all that mess, her AUTISTIC child might have been dead from the beatings she would have received. Autistic children are pretty much immune to pain. They don't perceive it in the same way other kids do. She laughed at a spanking. Still does.

Autism is real, believe me I know. Is this ODD a real mental illness? What is the cause? Is there a treatment? Or is it something they give a name to because they don't want to admit it is poor parenting?

 

[sockgirl77]

Damn Appy, she's just trying to help this kid. She's not beating the kid.

 

[happyappygirl]

My grand daughter would head but her mom right in the face by the age of 18 months (nearly broke her nose on several occasions) if my daughter made her put her shoes on in the car after she'd taken them off the minute she got into her car seat. She'd wing her sippy cup at the back of her mothers head from her car seat - and HIT her dead on WHACK! She'd go into a rage when her schedule would change. And I mean RAGE, beyond that of a toddler. She didn't sleep. She would drag her twin bed across the room and turn it upside down at 16-18 months. That's obviously not normal terrible 2 behavior.

My kind, sweet daughter beat herself up every day for hating to be around her own child. That's when we said ENOUGH. We need to find out what's wrong with her, and we did. She is high functioning Autistic with a sensory disorder. She can't stand certain things touching her body that's why she won't wear shoes unless she absolutely has too and prefers dresses with short sleeves to pants/long sleeves even in the dead of winter. she'll go outside dressed like this even in the snow, and she's not affected by it at all.

 

[happyappygirl]

Damn Appy, she's just trying to help this kid. She's not beating the kid.

This child has a serious undiagnosed disability, and many of you are encouraging her to abandon the kid and his mom because he is a "discipline" problem. I don't think the kid is a discipline problem. He needs help. He can't control what's going on inside of him and it shows on the outside.

Nanny Pam is a trained care giver. Not all children fit into the "perfect" mold. It can be an opportunity to advance that training to include the not so perfect kids, although it's a tough call and not one made lightly.

It sounds like the mom doesn't know what's going on with this kid either, but she knows something is wrong. Sometimes its hard to see the forest for the trees, especially when you're living it. Thank goodness my daughter is also a daycare mom. She's had lots of training and lots of experience with normal kids, so she recognized the 'abnormal' in her own child, and sought help.

Nanny Pam are you on any of the daycare provider email lists? My daughter has found people on them to be very helpful with the day to day things.

 

[Vince]

My grand daughter would head but her mom right in the face by the age of 18 months (nearly broke her nose on several occasions) if my daughter made her put her shoes on in the car after she'd taken them off the minute she got into her car seat. She'd wing her sippy cup at the back of her mothers head from her car seat - and HIT her dead on WHACK! She'd go into a rage when her schedule would change. And I mean RAGE, beyond that of a toddler. She didn't sleep. She would drag her twin bed across the room and turn it upside down at 16-18 months. That's obviously not normal terrible 2 behavior.

My kind, sweet daughter beat herself up every day for hating to be around her own child. That's when we said ENOUGH. We need to find out what's wrong with her, and we did. She is high functioning Autistic with a sensory disorder. She can't stand certain things touching her body that's why she won't wear shoes unless she absolutely has too and prefers dresses with short sleeves to pants/long sleeves even in the dead of winter. she'll go outside dressed like this even in the snow, and she's not affected by it at all.

That is autism. When my son was 2 and not speaking he would scream for everything because they don't know how to communicate. The violent outbursts were so bad I would have to physically hold him down so he wouldn't hurt himself or continue to beat me with his fists. The outbursts will lessen with age and education. The Calvert school system has some of the best Special Ed teachers around. Today he is 25 and still living with me. He's a great kid/young man.

 

[happyappygirl]

Autism is real, believe me I know. Is this ODD a real mental illness? What is the cause? Is there a treatment? Or is it something they give a name to because they don't want to admit it is poor parenting?

This kid is undiagnosed, ODD is a guess on Nanny Pam's part.

 

[happyappygirl]

That is autism. When my son was 2 and not speaking he would scream for everything because they don't know how to communicate. The violent outbursts were so bad I would have to physically hold him down so he wouldn't hurt himself or continue to beat me with his fists. The outbursts will lessen with age and education. The Calvert school system has some of the best Special Ed teachers around. Today he is 25 and still living with me. He's a great kid/young man.

Do you have other kids?

Our 9 y/o grandson (full sibling to the 4 y/o) was recently diagnosed as high functioning, but his behavior has been the exact opposite of hers. He was complacent and very easy as an infant/toddler. I kept him during the day for them until he was 3, he went to work with me every day he was so 'easy'. That's why it was such a shock when Sky was like she is. I could never have taken her to work with me. No way.

As he ages we recognize the signs. He won't make eye contact (never has), and isn't a "huggy" kid. He doesn't relate to people outside of the family as "people" for instance he calls his teacher "teacher" instead of by her name, and he doesn't call any of the kids in his class by name. Never has.

But on the other hand he's brilliant on the PC, with video games, his DS etc. He figured out NetFlix on his own. My daughter never gave him the URL. He saw the movies come in the mail, went online, figured it all out, and when his movies started arriving instead of hers she went online and saw he bumped hers down and put his picks on the top of the list. my daughter was floored.

 

[vraiblonde]

This child has a serious undiagnosed disability, and many of you are encouraging her to abandon the kid and his mom because he is a "discipline" problem.

Nanny Pam can continue to deal with this child at the risk of her other kids, or she doesn't have to. AND I might add that NP may not be qualified to care for a child with this sort of disability. The kid may be better off with someone who specializes in his specific disorder.

You can't just take a special needs kid and foist them off on a normal daycare provider, and I'm surprised that anyone would even suggest that.

 

[Vince]

Do you have other kids?

Our 9 y/o grandson (full sibling to the 4 y/o) was recently diagnosed as high functioning, but his behavior has been the exact opposite of hers. He was complacent and very easy as an infant/toddler. I kept him during the day for them until he was 3, he went to work with me every day he was so 'easy'. That's why it was such a shock when Sky was like she is. I could never have taken her to work with me. No way.

As he ages we recognize the signs. He won't make eye contact (never has), and isn't a "huggy" kid. He doesn't relate to people outside of the family as "people" for instance he calls his teacher "teacher" instead of by her name, and he doesn't call any of the kids in his class by name. Never has.

But on the other hand he's brilliant on the PC, with video games, his DS etc. He figured out NetFlix on his own. My daughter never gave him the URL. He saw the movies come in the mail, went online, figured it all out, and when his movies started arriving instead of hers she went online and saw he bumped hers down and put his picks on the top of the list. my daughter was floored.

Have a perfectly normal daughter. Graduated college and married. The other symptoms you describe were also my sons. Good at figuring things out, video games, computers, etc. He is said to be high functioning, but he will never be able to live on his own.

 

[happyappygirl]

Nanny Pam can continue to deal with this child at the risk of her other kids, or she doesn't have to. AND I might add that NP may not be qualified to care for a child with this sort of disability. The kid may be better off with someone who specializes in his specific disorder.

You can't just take a special needs kid and foist them off on a normal daycare provider, and I'm surprised that anyone would even suggest that.

That's exactly right. I'm not suggesting she 'keep' the kid, I'm suggesting she help the mom get the help she needs, because it's evident that no one else has, especially if she's decided he doesn't fit into her daycare. That's perfectly understandable in the situation.

IMO, the mom needs someone who is knowledgable in child behavior, to tell her (gently) that her child has some sort of disability, and perhaps even give her some guidance on who to turn too for help. As I said, sometimes its hard to see the forest for the trees.

 

[libertytyranny]

Autism is real, believe me I know. Is this ODD a real mental illness? What is the cause? Is there a treatment? Or is it something they give a name to because they don't want to admit it is poor parenting?

The psych community is pretty split on most "childhood" diagnosis. Many believe that children shouldn't be diagnosed with anything. So these disorders and such should never be just accepted like everyone agrees they exist..because not everyone does. it is agreed that autism exists..but there are concerns as to the sheer numbers suddenly "diagnosed" and when it can be diagnosed and what criteria should be met. There is little consensus with the behavioral disorders, though. Childhood disorders of any type are exceedingly rare..so to assume every brat has some sort of disorder is silly and wastes resources that should be devoted to kids that need it. Children are all different. Personally I think a lot of what is labeled is just personality differences. We want to fit children..and people into nice little tidy charts day by day with what they are sup to be doing, thinking, and feeling...and we can't. Every kid that doesn't like to be touched, has sensory overload, and prefers to play alone is not autistic and every child that is hard headed and doesn't like to listen are not ODD. Every child does not need an iep or an advocate. then the ones that do don't have to work so hard to get it.

Personally when I hear ODD I automatically think inconsistency, and it plays in well that he has a single mom. Not because I have anything against sinlge moms (had one myself)..but because they are bound to be busy..and without the help a partner can provide it may be difficult to be absolutely consistent which some children seem to need more than others. Pair that with a child who naturally, by means of their personality (for lack of a better term..) need and crave absolute structure and consistency..and you can get a child that gets pretty out of hand.

 

[happyappygirl]

Have a perfectly normal daughter. Graduated college and married. The other symptoms you describe were also my sons. Good at figuring things out, video games, computers, etc. He is said to be high functioning, but he will never be able to live on his own.

When/how did you or his docs come to that conclusion? That is my fear for my daughter and her husband.

Did his mother by chance have hypertension during her pregnancy with him?

 

[Vince]

When/how did you or his docs come to that conclusion? That is my fear for my daughter and her husband.

Did his mother by chance have hypertension during her pregnancy with him?

Daughter was child no. 1 and was just normal. We didn't think about autism. With my son....he wasn't speaking by age 2, eyeballing, etc. All symptoms of autism. A specialist at Johns Hopkins diagnosed him after about 10 minutes of being in a room with him. He was pretty much text book. Don't know about the hypertension. Wife left 9 years ago and we do not speak.

 

[happyappygirl]

The psych community is pretty split on most "childhood" diagnosis. Many believe that children shouldn't be diagnosed with anything. So these disorders and such should never be just accepted like everyone agrees they exist..because not everyone does. it is agreed that autism exists..but there are concerns as to the sheer numbers suddenly "diagnosed" and when it can be diagnosed and what criteria should be met. There is little consensus with the behavioral disorders, though. Childhood disorders of any type are exceedingly rare..so to assume every brat has some sort of disorder is silly and wastes resources that should be devoted to kids that need it. Children are all different. Personally I think a lot of what is labeled is just personality differences. We want to fit children..and people into nice little tidy charts day by day with what they are sup to be doing, thinking, and feeling...and we can't. Every kid that doesn't like to be touched, has sensory overload, and prefers to play alone is not autistic and every child that is hard headed and doesn't like to listen are not ODD. Every child does not need an iep or an advocate. then the ones that do don't have to work so hard to get it.

Personally when I hear ODD I automatically think inconsistency, and it plays in well that he has a single mom. Not because I have anything against sinlge moms (had one myself)..but because they are bound to be busy..and without the help a partner can provide it may be difficult to be absolutely consistent which some children seem to need more than others. Pair that with a child who naturally, by means of their personality (for lack of a better term..) need and crave absolute structure and consistency..and you can get a child that gets pretty out of hand.

A normal child will at some point, respond to a consistent caregiver (not the parent, but someone outside the household) and will behave "normally" or at least appropriately for his/her age. A child with a disability like autism won't. They can't. They view/experience the world differently.

This kid is THREE years old. NP has been (and I quote) "......kicked, bitten, #### on, punched, screamed at, etc. " and obviously feels the child is out of control or she wouldn't have reached out for help. This kid isn't responding appropriately to consistent care giving. I'd say he needs help.

 

[Nanny Pam]

Just had a long talk with the Mom& grandmom. I called them to come and get him. She has had the child to several doctors. The child has been dismissed from 4 daycares in the last 1 1/2 years.
I also spoke with my licensing specialist, asking for guidance, since the parent & grandparents aren't willing to do the psychiatrist route.

My husband took pics of my bruised legs, and the bite marks on my arm.

I would have knocked this kid into next week, had he been mine.

The mother fought with me about the kid having to wear pullups while here. She insists he's potty trained. Believe me, he's not! I'm sick of shampooing carpets.

Friday is definately his last day. Maybe today was. :shrug:

I'm exhausted.

Thanks, everyone for all your input.

 

[happyappygirl]

A specialist at Johns Hopkins diagnosed him after about 10 minutes of being in a room with him. He was pretty much text book.

I wondered when you realized he wouldn't ever be able to live on his own. I'm hoping my grandies will someday, for my daughter and her husband's sake, but I don't know enough adult autistics to even guess.

I know many computer geeks who I'd guess are borderline autistic or maybe even Aspergers and they live on their own and function quite well. They're just what most peeps call a bit 'different'.

 

[Bay_Kat]

Nanny Pam can continue to deal with this child at the risk of her other kids, or she doesn't have to. AND I might add that NP may not be qualified to care for a child with this sort of disability. The kid may be better off with someone who specializes in his specific disorder.

You can't just take a special needs kid and foist them off on a normal daycare provider, and I'm surprised that anyone would even suggest that.

I agree, it's not fair to the other kids. Seems this child needs one on one and that can't be done if other kids are in the center.

 

[happyappygirl]

Just had a long talk with the Mom& grandmom. I called them to come and get him. She has had the child to several doctors. The child has been dismissed from 4 daycares in the last 1 1/2 years.
I also spoke with my licensing specialist, asking for guidance, since the parent & grandparents aren't willing to do the psychiatrist route.

My husband took pics of my bruised legs, and the bite marks on my arm.

I would have knocked this kid into next week, had he been mine.

The mother fought with me about the kid having to wear pullups while here. She insists he's potty trained. Believe me, he's not! I'm sick of shampooing carpets.

Friday is definately his last day. Maybe today was. :shrug:

I'm exhausted.

Thanks, everyone for all your input.

you made the decision that was right for your daycare kids and you.

I hope this little guy gets the help he needs, somewhere down the road.