Obama's Iran Nuke Deal

This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Midnightrider said:
There is only one line in this post I can agree with, the rest is asinine.

War would not be a better option. We as a country don't need to send any of our children to die over this, not at this point.

The sanctions, they were working so well that Iran is enriching uranium. They even have a few advanced centrifuges. Plus they were building a heavy water reactor. If the significance of that is lost on you, look it up. How is that an indicator of the sanctions working?
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They came to the negotiating table. If the sanctions weren't working, if everything was fine, why would they do that?
 
Midnightrider

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
This_person said:
They came to the negotiating table. If the sanctions weren't working, if everything was fine, why would they do that?
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What is your definition of sanctions working? I thought the point was to keep them from getting the bomb. If you believe BiBi they either already have one or they could any day. So no, the sanctions are not working, at least not in the most important respect. :shrug:
 
Gilligan

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Midnightrider said:
What is your definition of sanctions working? I thought the point was to keep them from getting the bomb. If you believe BiBi they either already have one or they could any day. So no, the sanctions are not working, at least not in the most important respect. :shrug:
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why does an country awash in OIL need Nuclear Energy ?
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Midnightrider said:
What is your definition of sanctions working? I thought the point was to keep them from getting the bomb. If you believe BiBi they either already have one or they could any day. So no, the sanctions are not working, at least not in the most important respect. :shrug:
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Based on that analysis, this deal does nothing to improve success, and therefore is also an unequal successful aspect.

However, you fail to note that the sanctions were doing something, or they would not have come to the table.
 
Midnightrider

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
This_person said:
Based on that analysis, this deal does nothing to improve success, and therefore is also an unequal successful aspect.

However, you fail to note that the sanctions were doing something, or they would not have come to the table.
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You ought to read the deal. It actually walks back their abilities quite a bit.

It seems to me Iran being on the verge of getting the bomb, because the sanctions were not working, has brought the world to the table.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Midnightrider said:
You ought to read the deal. It actually walks back their abilities quite a bit.

It seems to me Iran being on the verge of getting the bomb, because the sanctions were not working, has brought the world to the table.
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So, the deal robs Iran of centrifuges? It provides the world transparency to look at what we want, when we want, without hesitation or delay, when we note something that shows they're still gaining on bomb-creation? Nope, doesn't do any of that. This agreement takes all practical consequence of attempting to covertly build a nuclear weapon off of Iran while explicitly allowing them to take activities that make it much easier for them to build bombs. Tell me what it would take to "snap back" the sanctions. Think that would happen overnight? Within a month? Not so much.

But, at least it addressed their continued terrorist sponsoring, right? Nope, not that.

But, at least it addressed the Americans being held hostage, right? Nope, not that either.

It gives them back a significant amount of money (compared to their GPD, the infusion of cash in Iran would be equivalent to $8,000,000,000,000 to the American economy), it releases holds on international banking, releases them to sell more oil which will make that infusion of cash even higher, allows them to buy and sell more weapons, and limits them to ONLY enough centrifuges and uranium processing to do whatever the hell they want while they allow inspectors to look at only the things they want to allow the inspectors to look at. It is a treaty that will not be handled as a treaty by the United States (from a constitutional point of view), and will be overseen by an administration that is not a party to the negotiations.

Tell me, what exactly is the upside of this again?
 
Midnightrider

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
This_person said:
So, the deal robs Iran of centrifuges? It provides the world transparency to look at what we want, when we want, without hesitation or delay, when we note something that shows they're still gaining on bomb-creation? Nope, doesn't do any of that. This agreement takes all practical consequence of attempting to covertly build a nuclear weapon off of Iran while explicitly allowing them to take activities that make it much easier for them to build bombs. Tell me what it would take to "snap back" the sanctions. Think that would happen overnight? Within a month? Not so much.

But, at least it addressed their continued terrorist sponsoring, right? Nope, not that.

But, at least it addressed the Americans being held hostage, right? Nope, not that either.

It gives them back a significant amount of money (compared to their GPD, the infusion of cash in Iran would be equivalent to $8,000,000,000,000 to the American economy), it releases holds on international banking, releases them to sell more oil which will make that infusion of cash even higher, allows them to buy and sell more weapons, and limits them to ONLY enough centrifuges and uranium processing to do whatever the hell they want while they allow inspectors to look at only the things they want to allow the inspectors to look at. It is a treaty that will not be handled as a treaty by the United States (from a constitutional point of view), and will be overseen by an administration that is not a party to the negotiations.

Tell me, what exactly is the upside of this again?
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That's one way to read the deal, and its pretty skewed. But hey, whatever. I am sure this won't make you feel any better, but it explains some of your misconceptions. If you actually bother to read it you will see its pretty fair.

http://www.vox.com/2015/7/17/8989147/iran-nuclear-deal-myths


Here is the thing. If we don't make a deal with Iran we don't have any oversight AND according to you and BB they have the bomb tomorrow. None of those other things change in our favor, AND the other parties to the treaty are likely to lift sanctions without us.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Midnightrider said:
That's one way to read the deal, and its pretty skewed. But hey, whatever. I am sure this won't make you feel any better, but it explains some of your misconceptions. If you actually bother to read it you will see its pretty fair.
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What was skewed?
Here is the thing. If we don't make a deal with Iran we don't have any oversight AND according to you and BB they have the bomb tomorrow. None of those other things change in our favor, AND the other parties to the treaty are likely to lift sanctions without us.
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Please provide where I said they have the bomb tomorrow.
Please provide where this agreement gives us oversight over anything Iran doesn't want us to look at.
Please provide where the other parties involved have said, "we're gonna lift sanctions whether the US agrees or not".
Please provide where giving them hundreds of billions of dollars and sanctions relief will help keep and military armaments trading will improve our posture with them to help see the error of their ways in building a bomb.

I'm guessing you can't do any of those things. And, you'll tell me that you're bored with me, that I'm stupid, and then you'll put the yawn emoji up instead of thinking it through, but I could be wrong about that.
 
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