Oh, My. Global Warming is killing us! <NOT>
- Thread starter Lenny
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Pete said:
One of the great things about averaging *thousands* and hundreds of thousands of temperatures over a period of a year is even a +/- 1 degree CONSISTENT daily error would still make the overall average change by a miniscule amount. Still, thermometers aren't complex instruments, and we've calculated, repeatedly, MUCH more complex things than that - say, the charge on an electron or the speed of light - with reliability.
The data still says to me, the planet is warming - and the Republican response to it still is - yeah, but are people and industry the *cause*? And my answer is, who cares? Maybe it's caused by cow farts, but what matters is how we will fix it, because by the time we have incontravertible proof, we'll be WAY down that road.
Pete
Repete
But isn't a 1 degree warming a "miniscule amount"?SamSpade said:
The data still says to me, the planet is warming - and the Republican response to it still is - yeah, but are people and industry the *cause*? And my answer is, who cares? Maybe it's caused by cow farts, but what matters is how we will fix it, because by the time we have incontravertible proof, we'll be WAY down that road.[/QUOTE]Stanley Rugg?
Religious fundamentalists aren't trying to pass laws based on their hysterical fantasies.truby20 said:
desertrat
0_0
Hasn't the planet been warming up since the last ice age? I read an article that said if the planet does warm up a few degress it may not be such a bad thing, that there would be longer growing seasons and more regions would become suitible for agriculture. So we lose some expensive coastal property. Do you own any?
hvp05
Methodically disorganized
truby20 said:
I was not relying on them either. Read exactly what I posted...
The "what if" prefix is critical; it indicates that I analyzed and accepted Accuweather's forecast for what it was - a distant and vague watch notice.hvp05 said:
Which brings me back to the original point: Any forecast going more than 3 days hence is, at best, an educated guess. (I really want to say 2, but I'll be generous.)
I employed the Accuweather forecast to demonstrate how greatly 'experts' using, presumably, the same models and data can arrive at widely different results. Ultimately, the AW forecast illustrates my point more than it reaffirms yours.
By the width of a cartographer's hair. The NHC's swath was ~650 statute miles, stretching from central LA to central FL, and the storm is skirting the eastern edge. Accuracy, indeed.truby20 said:
BUT, what I find funny that you did not mention, and is not displayed in the first graphic you posted was the extended range. You remember, where Ernesto was charted to continue north and encounter land in the Gulf Coast. But I guess that's not important as long as the eye is "within the predicted swath".
Was that not the crux of your argument 2 - 3 days ago?truby20 said:
"This forecast track is scary!
120 mph winds! All because of Global Warming!"With that perspective, everyone east of the Mississippi River should have been "on alert" from Ernesto. You have the freedom to be scared by such things; I choose to live by reason.
Pete said:
Seems that way, doesn't it? But we're not talking day to day averages. We're talking global average. Remember my comment - average a few thousand values, you get a 1/1000 of a degree change. When that tiny change amounts to a whole degree, it's significant. A "minisicule" drop of 10 degrees planetwide puts you square in the middle of a full-blown Ice Age.
A "miniscule" change in ocean temperature of just a few degrees can wipe out coral reefs, which are the main support system of most of the coastal ocean life. A few degrees can mean mass extinctions.
There's nothing fatalistic about this - it's not as though the Sun were blowing up or the moon were exploding - we can avoid this. We're capable of saving it. I just don't buy into the idea mentioned on here previously that, if it's our time to go, just go. Screw that. If I can save myself - why not?
desertrat said:
The planet might gain arable land - say - RUSSIA or CANADA.
Yes, the planet has warmed since the last Ice Age - thank God, or we'd still be IN it. It has warmed about ten degrees planetwide. We've actually experienced, periodically, a few mini Ice Ages, which have had their own effect on man.
We're not just talking an increase in global temperatures, though. There's a significant increase in the global CO2 levels, and that has not been cyclical unless you account for the occasional volcanic activity. When you have about double the CO2 level, you're not talking a typical "swing" in climate.
See, I think we can fix it rather simply - create CO2 scrubbers. We've deforested and denuded so much of the landscape in the last few centuries, that the natural sources of CO2 removal are gone - and long buried stores of CO2 in the form of fossil fuels - are released. We have to find a way to reclaim and capture that extra CO2.
Our time on this planet is not infinite - we WILL become extinct. This, of course, will be LONG after you are dead and gone (and even after your great-great-great-grandchildren are dead and gone).SamSpade said:
So you're not talking about saving *yourself* - global warming and it's potential consequences have nothing to do with you. What the Al Gores of the world are talking about is "saving mankind"
Which is just arrogant and ridiculous.
vraiblonde said:
Or even half a million greats. The dinosaurs were here for a hundred million years. We've been here maybe a million - and only a few thousand as a civilized culture. Yeah, I realize the 'dinosaurs' weren't a single species - but I make my point.
Even so - other species have continued to survive even AFTER the mass extinctions. Insects, squid, fish, crocodiles, turtles, a few rodents - many of them have continued to survive despite the inevitability of extinction.
So it will happen. Unless of course, we take Hawking's advice and figure out how to migrate to the stars.
But we're talking about averting something entirely within our capability to avoid. It's like steering a super tanker - by the time you're within a mile or two of collision, there's not a damned thing you can do to avoid it - but when you're miles off, you can still fix it. When that happens, I'm sure there's some schmuck that'll say, oh that colission won't be for several hours - well screw that, why do something that can be fixed?
ylexot
Super Genius
Actually, "the cause" is very important when you look at the "how we fix it". If you are trying to fix the cause that turns out to not be the cause (i.e. reduce car emmissions and find out that cow farts are the cause), then all of your efforts are wasted. I know you mention CO2 scrubbers. At the moment, I think that's a better mindset for how we fix it because it is independent of the cause. Unfortunately, that is not the current mindset of, well, pretty much everybody. However, if we actually knew the cause, it could be different because then it may be more efficient to fix the source (but that really depends on what the source is).SamSpade said:
But the fact is, you KNOW what will happen if a super tanker runs you over. With climate change, you have no idea - just various hypotheses and conjecture.SamSpade said:
You say "fix it" but what if Mother Nature IS fixing it by regulating Her temperature?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
What...
...is this something that we are a entirely capable of avoiding?
Increased CO2 levels?
SamSpade said:
...is this something that we are a entirely capable of avoiding?
Increased CO2 levels?
Larry Gude said:
We are capable of counteracting the consequences of doubling and tripling the CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere, just as we are able to counteract the deleterious effects of chloro-flouro-hydrocarbons and their effect on the ozone layer.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Ok...
...but is this desirable, ecologically and economically?
SamSpade said:
...but is this desirable, ecologically and economically?
LOL we arent capable of counteracting nothing, global warming will get to the point of no return, WE cant stop the ice caps melting, nor the sea level rising, what about stopping that super volcano under yellowstone, maybe we could build a giant cork for that,
The dinosaurs lived for millions of years because they didnt distroy the world, humans have done more damage to this planet in the last 50 years than its entire exsistance, we will distroy our own world, and theres not a dam thing anyone can do about it.
And thats the cold hard truth.
The dinosaurs lived for millions of years because they didnt distroy the world, humans have done more damage to this planet in the last 50 years than its entire exsistance, we will distroy our own world, and theres not a dam thing anyone can do about it.
And thats the cold hard truth.
Funny arent you,
The truth hurts, you seem them all the time, we need to do something as oil is going to run out, we need to recycle more, bla bla, but they dont do it, talk is cheap when you think you have time, they need more ACTION now not later,
And you wonder why the hurricanes and other world weather is getting worse, but hey dont you worry about it, because by the time these devastating affects take place we'll be long gone, it will be our great grand kids suffering, but hey at least we can hand them down something cant we.
The truth hurts, you seem them all the time, we need to do something as oil is going to run out, we need to recycle more, bla bla, but they dont do it, talk is cheap when you think you have time, they need more ACTION now not later,
And you wonder why the hurricanes and other world weather is getting worse, but hey dont you worry about it, because by the time these devastating affects take place we'll be long gone, it will be our great grand kids suffering, but hey at least we can hand them down something cant we.
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