Penalties are getting out of control

[Larry Gude]

There is nothing wrong with me......If you don't want them hitting, take the pads off and put flags on them.....

That's total crap. There is a universe of difference between trying to reduce the number of helmet crown kill shots and playing flag football.

 

[Larry Gude]

It's not about protecting the players...it's about protecting investments....If they weren't paying them 20 million dollars a year, let's be frank....the owners wouldn't care less.....

I'm sure Collie will be glad to know he just got a raise.

 

[thurley42]

That's total crap. There is a universe of difference between trying to reduce the number of helmet crown kill shots and playing flag football.

I didn't dispute that! I am not talking about helmet crown kill shots! I'm talking about solid hits that are getting flagged....

 

[thurley42]

I'm sure Collie will be glad to know he just got a raise.

A. Collie is fine

B. Don't accept the money and play a dangerous sport if you aren't willing to accept the risk. No one held a gun to his head and made him be a professional football player.

 

[Larry Gude]

I said that the flagrant/malicious hits needed to be dealt with. The point of this thread was to say they there has been a knee jerk reaction to this and it's affecting outcomes of games......the Philly/Indy game would have never even been close if it weren't for a few of those penalties....

Soooooooooooooooo??????

Win or lose, you and me and everyone else WILL continue to watch football. The advertisers WILL continue to pay huge dollars. The games WILL go on. It does not matter one tiny bit if a game is won or lost because of one play, one penalty or one hit. The sun will come up tomorrow and all they are trying to do is reduce the number of helmet crown kill shots.

I do not understand, at all, the rejection of a strong effort to reduce the number of ILLEGAL crown hits. I do understand the gladiator blood lust desire to see someone crippled or killed. I just don't like it myself. There is plenty of collision and hard hitting and tough, brutal but proper technique football for me as is without guys going after one another with what amounts to a weapon; the helmet crown.

 

[Larry Gude]

A. Collie is fine

B. Don't accept the money and play a dangerous sport if you aren't willing to accept the risk. No one held a gun to his head and made him be a professional football player.

There's enough risk as is, to me, and you wouldn't change your tune one bit if Collie was crippled for life. or dead. The second hit from behind was unnecessary and NOT proper technique.

It's all there, all over the internet, to see proper technique. What's his face did NOT see what he hit and dinged himself pretty good, too so, this isn't just about the hittee. It's also to the benefit of the hitters. Don't take my word for it. You're not interested, fine. That's your business. I have ZERO problem with trying to reduce the crown shots in context of good football.

 

[Larry Gude]

I didn't dispute that! I am not talking about helmet crown kill shots! I'm talking about solid hits that are getting flagged....

The hit on Collies was not legal, was not proper technique and was unnecessarily dangerous to both players. In my view.

 

[Tilted]

Collie just took a nasty hit and went out.....but the penalty was ridiculous....no one led with their helmet, he was hit into Kurt Coleman's helmet and they called the penalty....give me a break.....

They said it was because he was defenseless, they just showed that he had made two steps, he was a runner.....are they just supposed to let them catch the ball, maybe clear a way to the endzone for them?

I agree, terrible call. They made a similarly bad call earlier on a hit on Vick.

Fortunately in this case, I don't think the Eagles defender will get fined or suspended, because the tide of public opinion has already gotten ahead of the NFL and so the popular thing will be to recognize that there wasn't anything wrong with his play.

Here's the thing though, the last couple of weekends I'm seeing these hits, and hearing the announcers comment about how they were good, clean hits. But, they're the same kind of hits that, if there had happened to be helmet to helmet contact (e.g. because the offensive player shifted just a tiny bit or, as in Collie's case, another defender hit them and shifted them some), there would have been penalties called and the defender would have been fined - even though they didn't do anything wrong. The NFL is responding to results, not whether the technique is clean. In other words, what separates a clean play from a dirty play is often something outside the defenders control. That's just wrong.

 

[thurley42]

Soooooooooooooooo??????

Win or lose, you and me and everyone else WILL continue to watch football. The advertisers WILL continue to pay huge dollars. The games WILL go on. It does not matter one tiny bit if a game is won or lost because of one play, one penalty or one hit. The sun will come up tomorrow and all they are trying to do is reduce the number of helmet crown kill shots.

I do not understand, at all, the rejection of a strong effort to reduce the number of ILLEGAL crown hits. I do understand the gladiator blood lust desire to see someone crippled or killed. I just don't like it myself. There is plenty of collision and hard hitting and tough, brutal but proper technique football for me as is without guys going after one another with what amounts to a weapon; the helmet crown.

Ok.....you are right...the sun will come up tomorrow...and people will make more threads about speeders, politicians, and the price of beer at the bar....I guess this was just the one topic that was griding my gears enough to complain about...

I don't want to see anyone crippled or killed, and I don't think I ever said that or gave that impression. My only point was they are getting penalty happy on things that do not warrant them. If you want to get tough on the illegal crown hits, suspend and fine players...don't get penalty happy on good plays that have nothing to do with malicious hits...

 

[Larry Gude]

I don't want to see anyone crippled or killed, and I don't think I ever said that or gave that impression. .

Then why the problem with serious efforts to reduce the chances of it happening? Who cares if they go a bit overboard in the effort given the goal and especially, to me, the dramatic, immediate improvement that I've seen?

You give the strong impression that your team winning a game is more important than the health of the players. That it's not 'real' football or that it's 'flag' if you put too much emphasis on reducing helmet to helmet hits. It's supposed to be entertainment and I love football. I love that astro turf is gone. I love that helmets are better. I love knee braces. I love flack jackets. I love textbook tackles and blocks even when it leaves someone with their wind knocked out of them or even if it does knock them for a loop IF it was proper technique. It's brutal enough for me and any effort to reduce injury, or worse, I am ALL for.

 

[Otter]

The hit on Collies was not legal, was not proper technique and was unnecessarily dangerous to both players. In my view.

So you're on board for Collie to be fined for leading with the crown of his helmet after catching the ball.

 

[Larry Gude]

So you're on board for Collie to be fined for leading with the crown of his helmet after catching the ball.

You got me there.

 

[thurley42]

Then why the problem with serious efforts to reduce the chances of it happening? Who cares if they go a bit overboard in the effort given the goal and especially, to me, the dramatic, immediate improvement that I've seen?

You give the strong impression that your team winning a game is more important than the health of the players. That it's not 'real' football or that it's 'flag' if you put too much emphasis on reducing helmet to helmet hits. It's supposed to be entertainment and I love football. I love that astro turf is gone. I love that helmets are better. I love knee braces. I love flack jackets. I love textbook tackles and blocks even when it leaves someone with their wind knocked out of them or even if it does knock them for a loop IF it was proper technique. It's brutal enough for me and any effort to reduce injury, or worse, I am ALL for.

If it affects the outcome of a game then to me you have compromised the game. Then what is the point?

I am very fond of the advances in sports/medical technology. We can prevent a lot of the things that plagued athletes and even ended their careers in the past. I'm 7 weeks removed from shoulder surgery that in the past might have ended any hope I would ever be able to do what got me there again.....

I do think there has to be a line though....example, armor worn in baseball so big hitters can crowd the plate without fear of being hit. It affects the game and puts a pitcher at a huge disadvantage. My problem isn't protecting the player, it's that you have just put the opponent at a disadvantage.

It's hard enough to play defense in the NFL these days, you are putting them at a greater disadvantage by not letting them hit a player going for a ball, and I'm talking about a good old fundamental hit, not a missle hit.

 

[Larry Gude]

If it affects the outcome of a game then to me you have compromised the game. Then what is the point?

So, knocking some guy into next week with the crown of the helmet, leaving him a convusling pile of jelly on the field that may or may not get up under his own power again, ever, that never affected the outcome of a game, huh?

 

[Larry Gude]

It's hard enough to play defense in the NFL these days, you are putting them at a greater disadvantage by not letting them hit a player going for a ball, and I'm talking about a good old fundamental hit, not a missle hit.

Then look at the damn Collie shots;

27 hits him good, hard, real hard and proper technique AND SEES WHAT HE IS HITTING. Knocks the crap out of him.

42 hits him with his head lowered and does NOT see what he hits.

 

[thurley42]

Then look at the damn Collie shots;

27 hits him good, hard, real hard and proper technique AND SEES WHAT HE IS HITTING. Knocks the crap out of him.

42 hits him with his head lowered and does NOT see what he hits.

from what I saw, Coleman was starting his tackle low and Collie was blasted into him.....the contact was incidental.

Otter brought a good point up about the runners putting their heads down.

But anyway....I'm pulling out of this one.....we both seem to have our opinions and I respect that.

It was a good weekend overall, I bet against my Brownies and they didn't let me down....lol

 

[Larry Gude]

from what I saw, Coleman was starting his tackle low and Collie was blasted into him.....the contact was incidental.

Otter brought a good point up about the runners putting their heads down.

But anyway....I'm pulling out of this one.....we both seem to have our opinions and I respect that.

It was a good weekend overall, I bet against my Brownies and they didn't let me down....lol

It is not incidental that 42 was looking DOWN when he hit Collie.

Otters point sounds good until you figure that someone has to have 'right of way' so to speak in order to have a poijnt of the game. That would be the OFFENSIVE players.

Way to go with the Browns!

 

[kom526]

Then look at the damn Collie shots;

Collie catches the ball, turns upfield and takes two steps becoming a runner.
Collie then lowers his head before first contact.

27 hits him good, hard, real hard and proper technique AND SEES WHAT HE IS HITTING. Knocks the crap out of him. And causes Collie's already lowered head to go lower, which put it at chest level, where #42 was aiming.

42 hits him with his head lowered and does NOT see what he hits.

This is what the Collie film looks like.


Watch the slow mo around 7-10 second mark.

 

[Larry Gude]

Yeah, good clip. I am wrong about 42; he's pretty much head up.

Anyone wanna doubt that he'd have been more crown shot a month ago.

 

[kom526]

Yeah, good clip. I am wrong about 42; he's pretty much head up.

Anyone wanna doubt that he'd have been more crown shot a month ago.

That was one of the best clips I could find on short notice.

Whoever was doing the call (Simms?) did explain that if the officials had any doubt then they have to toss the laundry.

OPINION ALERT!!!
I think that teams or even the "replay officials" should get a chance to challenge the call in these cases. If you leave it to the team then you get 1 per game and the officials anytime during the game.

OH and that was most definitely a fumble.