Plate scanners.......a step too far....?

[glhs837]

So, during a recent discussion, it was brought to my attention that the Automated license-plate-recognition systems (ALPRs), which I had thought only checked scanned plates against a list of wanted tags, do much more.

They log each plate with time, date, and GPS location, which data, in some cases, is purged by the locality that did the scanning. However, in MD, they upload it to the state, which apparently keeps a database of this info for further referral.

Maryland to store license-plate scanner data at intel fusion center | Center for Investigative Reporting

Now, heres a funny, in the regular media coverage, any hint of possible misuse is ignored, while the benefits are touted.

plate scanners maryand - Google Search

Sorry, to me, this smacks of officers taking pictures of citizens walking down the street, asking them for ID, them logging that data. We wouldn't abide that, but because this is automated, folks ignore it.

what prompted this thread was the sight of three St Marys cruisers on GMR, one stopped in the center turn lane with scanners going, and one east and west, I assume to be dispatched should a scanner hit occur.

Also saw two more SMCS cars on Rt 235 15 minutes later, I think running red light patrol, which would be the first time I have seen that.

 

[tom88]

So, during a recent discussion, it was brought to my attention that the Automated license-plate-recognition systems (ALPRs), which I had thought only checked scanned plates against a list of wanted tags, do much more.

They log each plate with time, date, and GPS location, which data, in some cases, is purged by the locality that did the scanning. However, in MD, they upload it to the state, which apparently keeps a database of this info for further referral.

Maryland to store license-plate scanner data at intel fusion center | Center for Investigative Reporting

Now, heres a funny, in the regular media coverage, any hint of possible misuse is ignored, while the benefits are touted.

plate scanners maryand - Google Search

Sorry, to me, this smacks of officers taking pictures of citizens walking down the street, asking them for ID, them logging that data. We wouldn't abide that, but because this is automated, folks ignore it.

what prompted this thread was the sight of three St Marys cruisers on GMR, one stopped in the center turn lane with scanners going, and one east and west, I assume to be dispatched should a scanner hit occur.

Also saw two more SMCS cars on Rt 235 15 minutes later, I think running red light patrol, which would be the first time I have seen that.

I think I saw the officers doing red light patrol on 235 near Chancellors Run. I was coming out of the offices across from Sheetz and saw two guys taking pictures and officers parked in parking lots North of the intersection.

As far as the plate scanners go I don't have any problem with it. The information is available to the police if they run the tag anyway, and each and every time a tag number is run nation wide that information is stored and can be obtained.

 

[RPMDAD]

glhs837, have read many of your posts, most sound pro LEO. The ALPRS scan plates as they go by and send out almost instanaus alerts for hits such as Bolo's, Tags expired, Owners License revoked, Reported stolen tags and reported stolen cars, flagged for expired insurance on vehicle, and my least favorite of all VEIP expired and not renewed in time violations. I don't see the problem, if you are not doing any of the above wrong why worry. I do have problems with law enforcement agencies planting tracking devices on your personal vehicle without a warrant though...

 

[G1G4]

I think those are tag readers on the MSP cars, not on SMCSO or CCSO vehicles. I don't know of any MSP in the SMC patrol sector with them. I agree though, if they're logging that much data, it kind of makes you wonder.

My only question is; is the data (whatever it is their storing, names, addresses, anything other than indicating "stolen" or "bad tags") readable by LEO's, or is it only recognizable and reflected by the tag reader software? If it is, it's something that needs to be lookedi nto further.

 

[TPD]

Some people just don't get it - this crap has got to stop! It is going to bite us in the ass one day. Are we assured of 100% accuracy with all of this technology? What if the scanner is one number or letter off - reads an 8 instead of a B and this wrong plate is now you that puts you at the scene of the crime - now you are screwed with no defense! I despise big big brother watching, whether I am innocent or not.

 

[G1G4]

Some people just don't get it - this crap has got to stop! It is going to bite us in the ass one day. Are we assured of 100% accuracy with all of this technology? What if the scanner is one number or letter off - reads an 8 instead of a B and this wrong plate is now you that puts you at the scene of the crime - now you are screwed with no defense! I despise big big brother watching, whether I am innocent or not.

You'll get a chance to defend yourself when you're stopped. They don't rush in and tackle you and don't give you a chance to talk. They'll check your registration, VIN, etc etc.

 

[RPMDAD]

In any major city, and in most public places outside of your vehicle you are under the srutiny of some kind of surveillance camera. They , the feds are already wanting to start facial recognition of people into large events, e.g. Super Bowl. World Series, etc. etc.
It is already here. Especially in any big city, they are filming and recording you, not your license plate.

 

[oldman]

I know they are used here in Charles County and that they are always double checked to insure accuracy. I see nothing wrong with it as it gets the law breakers off the roads at least for a while.

 

[Baja28]

Many cities have already been using them. What's the big deal? :shrug:

 

[dan0623_2000]

Cameras

"I don't see the problem, if you are not doing any of the above wrong why worry

Jews living in 1939 Germany were doing nothing wrong either.

 

[Baja28]

"I don't see the problem, if you are not doing any of the above wrong why worry

Jews living in 1939 Germany were doing nothing wrong either.

Yea because using plate scanners to catch crooks is akin to rounding up millions of jews for execution.

 

[glhs837]

glhs837, have read many of your posts, most sound pro LEO. The ALPRS scan plates as they go by and send out almost instanaus alerts for hits such as Bolo's, Tags expired, Owners License revoked, Reported stolen tags and reported stolen cars, flagged for expired insurance on vehicle, and my least favorite of all VEIP expired and not renewed in time violations. I don't see the problem, if you are not doing any of the above wrong why worry. I do have problems with law enforcement agencies planting tracking devices on your personal vehicle without a warrant though...

I dont have a problem with scan for outstandings and take action. I am cool with that. Finding bad guys, thats a good thing. what I have a problem with is the compiling a database of location database for law abiding citizens, "just in case".

Using facial recog for bad guys at the Superbowl, fine with that. But if you record and keep on file anyone not on the list already, "just in case", again, that smacks of STASI tactics.

GIG, they have been in ST Marys for a while, although thinking about it, I have not seen them around a lot lately, Maybe back in the fall was last time I saw it a lot. Thats one reason it stuck out at me today. Car was an unmarked CVPI, dark in color, burgundy or blue.

It has to be SMCS or MSP, and I'm pretty sure there was one on a marked SMCS car last year. Not sure if they need certain funding to run them, and got a refill on such money, or what.

 

[glhs837]

Yea because using plate scanners to catch crooks is akin to rounding up millions of jews for execution.

Again, using it to catch bad guys, cool. Compiling database of law abiding citizen movements? Thats not catching bad guys. Thats freaking Majority Report stuff right there.

 

[Baja28]

Again, using it to catch bad guys, cool. Compiling database of law abiding citizen movements? Thats not catching bad guys. Thats freaking Majority Report stuff right there.

Lemmee ask you glhs, what did you have to provide to get a driver's license? What did you have to provide to get a passport?

 

[glhs837]

All sorts of proof of ID. And your point thats relevant to this?

 

[drivingdaisy]

This is a lot less maddening to me than speeding and red light cameras. At least the technology is only assisting the officers to determine if they need to make action, not a machine deciding whether or not I broke the law.

As for the data base, that does seem a bit much, but I bet it is rarely used. I bet it just turns out to be a lot of info that doesn't get used. What are the chances the police would be recording in the area at a time a crime was committed. Although they might use it to try to make some statistical data (of which I can't even imagine).

I know in London they have cameras every where now. In some ways it does seem a little invasive, but if it helped catch more criminals it seems worth it. Although in this country we are not sure what to do with our criminals when we get them.

 

[G1G4]

GIG, they have been in ST Marys for a while, although thinking about it, I have not seen them around a lot lately, Maybe back in the fall was last time I saw it a lot. Thats one reason it stuck out at me today. Car was an unmarked CVPI, dark in color, burgundy or blue.

It has to be SMCS or MSP, and I'm pretty sure there was one on a marked SMCS car last year. Not sure if they need certain funding to run them, and got a refill on such money, or what.

Yep, I'm friends with the cpl that has them in SMC. Dark blue CVPI, and AFAIK, he's the only one that has them in the county. He does roving patrols a lot and he says they're very effective. He's set them up at DUI checkpoints, parking lots in high crime areas and places like that.
I'm not disputing the fact that having my location in a database at any given time is wrong. I just wonder if it's actually obtainable to any LEO (or anyone) or just readable to a software that isn't customizable to anything other than whether a tag has outstanding violations, whether it has insurance, the owner, etc etc.

 

[glhs837]

Speed and red light cameras bother me solely because they purport to be about safety, but only really serve to make money. This thing, its more of a govt vs citizen thing, with them gather data about us "just in case", and that bugs me. I'm not some raving paranoid, but this just rubs me wrong. You should need a reason to gather data like this, not just because you can.

 

[glhs837]

Yep, I'm friends with the cpl that has them in SMC. Dark blue CVPI, and AFAIK, he's the only one that has them in the county. He does roving patrols a lot and he says they're very effective. He's set them up at DUI checkpoints, parking lots in high crime areas and places like that.
I'm not disputing the fact that having my location in a database at any given time is wrong. I just wonder if it's actually obtainable to any LEO (or anyone) or just readable to a software that isn't customizable to anything other than whether a tag has outstanding violations, whether it has insurance, the owner, etc etc.

According to the article, the location database stuff isnt accessible to the trooper in the car, all he gets is hits on the bad guy list. The other data? Goes to the state. For what? Nobody's really sure, that I can find, other than data fusion. There are supposedly safeguards in place to prevent unauthorized access, but no delineated information about what constitutes authorized access. Nothing you can point to and say, "This is a valid reason to see if GLHS was on GMR at 1730 today". A court order? Curiosity by the SMC States Attorney? Hellifiknow.

Heck, could someone in State Govt who has seen my posted opposition to automated enforcement access this to see what tidbits pop out? Do I park in front of the "bookstore" a lot? Maybe I spent a lot of time in Roses parking lot when it was open? This sort of thing is what creeps me out. The state was going to hand out addresses of folks who oppose the Dream Act to a private group. WTH was that?

 

[BOP]

You'll get a chance to defend yourself when you're stopped. They don't rush in and tackle you and don't give you a chance to talk. They'll check your registration, VIN, etc etc.

Apparently, you're not aware that in this country, you are no longer considered innocent until proven guilty. Mere suspicion is enough to require that you defend yourself, and prove your innocence. And gawd help you if you're a high-profile person, or celebrity; ie, someone of high enough stature that the media would try and convict you merely because you've been accused of some crime or other.