Plate scanners.......a step too far....?

[itsbob]

How exactly do tag readers violate any constitutional provisions?

How much information about somebody can be had from running a simple license plate??

Who has access to this information and why?

If there is no probable cause for them to be asking for this information, than they should NOT have access to it, any of it.

An auto mated plate reader does all of this. This is akin to walking in the park minding your own business and a cop stops you and starts asking you for identifying information. Driver's License? Gun Regsitration cards.. proff of insurance.. and having the ability to arrest you and fine you on the spot for any infraction he may find by pure happenstance.

It's not legal to do it person to person it should not be legal to do by "plate reader".

 

[itsrequired]

What kind of information is stored along with your vehicle registration??
Name, age address of the registered owner(s) The year make and type of vehicle, the vin number, sticker number and registration dates. The name of the insurance carrier.
Now they combine the arms registration with your vehicle, so that before a stop, when a cop calls in your plate, they get a warning that you MAY be armed..
Only in your paranoid mind!
So now they know you own a gun, they know your address.. and thanks to the driver's license you're required to have they know what you look like..

That's WAAAAY to much information for the government to have on a private citizen.

And I'd also bet (as they report to the insurance companies) they have all of the information on anyone insured on any of your cars.

Don't bet a lot....you'll lose that bet.

A little data mining, a BAD government can round up any of a number of "types of miscreants" they so chose without as much as waking your neighbors.

If government is going to be bad...they don't need tag readers to do it. For your scenario to work, the operatives of government, (your neigbhors) would also have to be bad! I don't think this conspiracy thought of yours is going to work out the way you think it will.

 

[itsrequired]

How much information about somebody can be had from running a simple license plate??

Who has access to this information and why?

If there is no probable cause for them to be asking for this information, than they should NOT have access to it, any of it.

An auto mated plate reader does all of this. This is akin to walking in the park minding your own business and a cop stops you now that is a constitutional violation. You have been siezed if you are not allowed to leave. and starts asking you for identifying information. Driver's License? Gun Regsitration cards.. proff of insurance.. and having the ability to arrest you and fine you on the spot for any infraction he may find by pure happenstance.

It's not legal to do it person to person it should not be legal to do by "plate reader".

It is legal to do it. Maybe in your mind it's not, but fortunately you are not king.

YOU still have FAILED to show me where this violates the constitution!

 

[BernieP]

glhs837, have read many of your posts, most sound pro LEO. The ALPRS scan plates as they go by and send out almost instanaus alerts for hits such as Bolo's, Tags expired, Owners License revoked, Reported stolen tags and reported stolen cars, flagged for expired insurance on vehicle, and my least favorite of all VEIP expired and not renewed in time violations. I don't see the problem, if you are not doing any of the above wrong why worry. I do have problems with law enforcement agencies planting tracking devices on your personal vehicle without a warrant though...

Typical, "if you aren't doing anything wrong why worry about it" because we know that because a LEO is involved it's constitutional and safe. Obviously you didn't read the part about the data being uploaded to statewide database to be stored. I wonder just how secure that database is and/or what the data in there would be worth. Say to a private investigator, corporate marketing departments or a political opponent.

 

[itsbob]

It is legal to do it. Maybe in your mind it's not, but fortunately you are not king.

YOU still have FAILED to show me where this violates the constitution!

I haven't failed, you failed to comprehend.

If you have no issue with it so be it, I have issues with it.

You ever see parking wars?? The people on that show aren't even cops and they're given access to all of your info..

And you can bet if they have access to it, someone else does too.

Imagine seeing a Bentley on the street, and doing a run on the plate and finding out where the person that can afford a 300,000 car lives.. and without too much effort can find out if they own any weapons, or have the ability to defend themselves..


Or see your car full of VERY expensive Christmas gifts and in a matter of seconds know where you live.. and if you own any guns..or have a dog..


Yeah, I understand that you don't get it, that I've failed to prove it to you.. Hope it's not too late when you finally do get it.


This is a Pandora's box, and it's only a matter of time before we hear about someone using this information for the wrong reasons.

 

[itsrequired]

Typical, "if you aren't doing anything wrong why worry about it" because we know that because a LEO is involved it's constitutional and safe. Obviously you didn't read the part about the data being uploaded to statewide database to be stored. I wonder just how secure that database is and/or what the data in there would be worth. Say to a private investigator, corporate marketing departments or a political opponent.

So is the answer that NO information should be given to anyone? After all, you give doctors information. How safe is that? People speak to their shrink. How safe is that? This is a TAG reader. It's not a people reader. It says nothing about an individual. It is simply reading a tag which is on a public highway.

 

[itsrequired]

I haven't failed, you failed to comprehend.

If you have no issue with it so be it, I have issues with it.

You ever see parking wars?? The people on that show aren't even cops and they're given access to all of your info..

And those people are subject to the same penalties as police officers are for mis-using the information.

And you can bet if they have access to it, someone else does too.

Such as who?

Imagine seeing a Bentley on the street, and doing a run on the plate and finding out where the person that can afford a 300,000 car lives.. and without too much effort can find out if they own any weapons, or have the ability to defend themselves..

How can you do that? This is b.s. Just because you don't have a regulated firearm registered to you, doesn't mean you don't have firearms. This is the MOST absurd thing you have ever said. Now you are just making stuff up.

Or see your car full of VERY expensive Christmas gifts and in a matter of seconds know where you live.. and if you own any guns..or have a dog..

NONSENSE. You watch way too much t.v.

Yeah, I understand that you don't get it, that I've failed to prove it to you.. Hope it's not too late when you finally do get it.


This is a Pandora's box, and it's only a matter of time before we hear about someone using this information for the wrong reasons.

And you still have FAILED to show me the constitutional violation as you stated before! Much like the rest of your rhetoric, that was b.s. as well!

 

[itsbob]

If government is going to be bad...they don't need tag readers to do it. For your scenario to work, the operatives of government, (your neigbhors) would also have to be bad! I don't think this conspiracy thought of yours is going to work out the way you think it will.

So you're suggesting we can puchase a gun in the state of MD without registering it, and the data kept in a repository somewhere where most anyone can access it (ESPECIALLY the police??)

Cars are registered, guns are registered, dogs are registered, what else is "registered" in the state of MD whose date is kept in a statewide database somewhere?

Soon it will be medical information too (actually that's already being done, just not at a level that's coming in the near future).

And this isn't a conspiracy theory.. Everyone already knows the governement collects all of the above information. There isn't a question that they do it, so there is no "theory" it's fact.

Who has access, and what they can and can't do with it, nobody knows for sure.

 

[itsbob]

You ever see parking wars?? The people on that show aren't even cops and they're given access to all of your info..

And those people are subject to the same penalties as police officers are for mis-using the information.

That should make everyone feel good and safe at night, because we know how well "penalties" deter criminals..

The only way to prevent anyone from using this information for comitting crimes is for nobody to have access to it in the first place. Penalties, and the threat of prison hasn't stopped our crime rates from going up yet has it?

 

[BernieP]

So is the answer that NO information should be given to anyone? After all, you give doctors information. How safe is that? People speak to their shrink. How safe is that? This is a TAG reader. It's not a people reader. It says nothing about an individual. It is simply reading a tag which is on a public highway.

You agree to give the doctor information with the stipulation that it remains private. Some they need for medical purposes and the rest is used for insurance billing.

It's a tag reader that logs the date, time and location your vehicle was scanned. Mulitple scans and you can approximate the number of miles driven and driving patterns (where and when). Say I want to break into your house, if I have this data I can tell the best time to visit your home. The real benefit is I don't have to stake you out, I can simply make a FOI request (or steal) the data and corralate it by tag. Then use the tag number to look up the information on the owner / driver.
BTW, you told your insurance company you only drove your car 8 miles a day to and from work. But the database shows that your car is routinely scanned 30 miles from your home.
Your spouse wants to know why your car keeps showing up 30 miles from work when you say you are in the office - having an affair are we.
Now, if the cops can get to the datanbase, how secure do you think it is if it's available online to them, well I have a few dozen banks and hospitals who can enlighten you about theft of PII.
But it's okay, it's just the state that's tracking us.

 

[itsrequired]

So you're suggesting we can puchase a gun in the state of MD without registering it, and the data kept in a repository somewhere where most anyone can access it (ESPECIALLY the police??)

Cars are registered, guns are registered, dogs are registered, what else is "registered" in the state of MD whose date is kept in a statewide database somewhere?

Soon it will be medical information too (actually that's already being done, just not at a level that's coming in the near future).

And this isn't a conspiracy theory.. Everyone already knows the governement collects all of the above information. There isn't a question that they do it, so there is no "theory" it's fact.

Who has access, and what they can and can't do with it, nobody knows for sure.

You are not required to register shotguns in the State of Maryland. I have owned dogs all my life, and have never "registered" any of my dogs. I have been a police officer for over 20 years, and have never heard of a place where I could check to see if a person has a "registered" dog. Any information I querry in reference to a persons guns or criminal history is accounted for and subject to audit. I have to have a valid reason for that because that information is restricted.

Running a tag on a public highway doesn't give me any information about dogs, guns, bazooka's or other items the registered owner of that vehicle has. It also doesn't tell me who is OPERATING that vehicle.

 

[BernieP]

oh, and how much is this monster system going to cost? Bet there is a payback in there somewhere - let's see, stricter enforcement of this motor vehicle law will increase revenue by so much and if we allow insurance companies to buy the data we can get even more and well there that nasty freedom of information act, might as well give people the data for a fee then fight the request.

It sounded like a good idea, but like a lot of grand schemes it will go south.

 

[itsrequired]

oh, and how much is this monster system going to cost? Bet there is a payback in there somewhere - let's see, stricter enforcement of this motor vehicle law will increase revenue by so much and if we allow insurance companies to buy the data we can get even more and well there that nasty freedom of information act, might as well give people the data for a fee then fight the request.

It sounded like a good idea, but like a lot of grand schemes it will go south.

When will it go south? NCIC has been collecting information for forty years. When is the Armageddon going to happen Bernie?

 

[glhs837]

Damn, glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks this doesn't pass the sniff test. I was beginning to wonder if I was the one off base here, and just reading too much into this.

 

[itsrequired]

Damn, glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks this doesn't pass the sniff test. I was beginning to wonder if I was the one off base here, and just reading too much into this.

No, you're in great company.

 

[itsbob]

So is the answer that NO information should be given to anyone? After all, you give doctors information. How safe is that? People speak to their shrink. How safe is that? This is a TAG reader. It's not a people reader. It says nothing about an individual. It is simply reading a tag which is on a public highway.

And the converstaion between my doctor and a shrink is SUPPOSED to be confidential, but as we know that's no longer the case.

Maybe read here, this will help. They run your plate, and the dispatcher returns with "warning" of possible problems extracted from other state held data repositories..


http://forums.somd.com/news-current-events/228458-maryland-profiling-2nd-amendment-supporters.html

And reading the tag is not the issue, it's the information reading the tag provides.. it doesn't return information about the tag as you say, but it returns all of the information about the individual that the car is registered to. What if they made us wear these plates around our necks so they could scan us in a crowd and get all of our personal information, would that bother you?

 

[glhs837]

When will it go south? NCIC has been collecting information for forty years. When is the Armageddon going to happen Bernie?

Yep, and it generally does just fine, misuse is kept to a minimum. But this isnt NCIC, this is a whole new world of "data fusion". and they are linking as much data as they can together. Do you have inside knowledge of the data fusion aspect, or just as a cop on the street using NCIC?

 

[itsbob]

You are not required to register shotguns in the State of Maryland. I have owned dogs all my life, and have never "registered" any of my dogs. I have been a police officer for over 20 years, and have never heard of a place where I could check to see if a person has a "registered" dog. Any information I querry in reference to a persons guns or criminal history is accounted for and subject to audit. I have to have a valid reason for that because that information is restricted.

Running a tag on a public highway doesn't give me any information about dogs, guns, bazooka's or other items the registered owner of that vehicle has. It also doesn't tell me who is OPERATING that vehicle.

Interesting.. I thought in MD it was law that all dogs had to be vaccinated and licensed?? Is that not the case?

 

[itsrequired]

Interesting.. I thought in MD it was law that all dogs had to be vaccinated and licensed?? Is that not the case?

I get my dogs vaccinated, but I have never gotten a "license" for my dog. Where do you believe the police would be able to obtain this information?

Are you ever going to tell me where you believe scanners violate the constitution? Was that just some catch phrase you use when you don't really know any better?

 

[itsbob]

AND you're suggesting I can go into Wal-Mart and buy a shotgun without getting "cleared" and filling out a bunch of paperwork that goes where exactly??

It may not be a formal registration, but by the spirit of the law, you just registered that shotgun to your name and address, and bet your ass that information is stored at the state level (even though it's supposed to be destroyed after a period of years).