Pope Benedict's Warning to Theologians
- Thread starter nhboy
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Dork
Highlander's MPD
libby said:
Libby, please don't spend too much time trying to argue with ItalianMan100w and StarScallion. Let them believe what they want and we will continue to follow the teachings of our faith. I'm sure they are both very good people and I could see myself hanging out with good people like these two but it's a little irritating that they have some feeling that they have been saved and that they want us to be saved but they are just "beating a dead horse." Maybe, just maybe, they are right. BUT, maybe, just maybe we are in the way we do things. It's always come down to interpretation. As far as I'm concerned, they should respect our beliefs and We should respect theirs but quit trying to convert me. Huummmmm. What about the people who convert to Catholicism? Should we considered them saved or lost?
If you two are convinced you know the truth, I respect that. BUT PLEASE, don't feel you need to save us from Catholicism. It's insulting and annoying.
Starman3000m
New Member
libby said:
Commentary Regarding Catholic Tradition vs Holy Bible Scriptures:
(Excerpt)
"Practically all precepts of the Roman Catholic religion contradict the Bible repeatedly. It is the largest cult in the world and most preachers will not openly say so because it is so large. For Catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is the one that cares.
For a glimpse of the atrocities committed by the Roman Catholic religion, do a net search on the Inquisition or the Crusades. During the Inquisition, the Catholic religion killed millions. Why? Primarily to suppress any and all opposition to the pope. Side "benefits" included taking the material wealth of its victims and showing the pope's power. The Catholic Inquisitors tortured, crippled, burned, and imprisioned millions of people. Whatever happened to love your enemies? (Matthew 5:44)
More. The following link compares Vatican "tradition" to Biblical Truths.
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/cath.htm
Dork
Highlander's MPD
Starman3000m said:Commentary Regarding Catholic Tradition vs Holy Bible Scriptures:
(Excerpt)
"Practically all precepts of the Roman Catholic religion contradict the Bible repeatedly. It is the largest cult in the world and most preachers will not openly say so because it is so large. For Catholics who read this, please remember this: the person that tells you the truth is the one that cares.
For a glimpse of the atrocities committed by the Roman Catholic religion, do a net search on the Inquisition or the Crusades. During the Inquisition, the Catholic religion killed millions. Why? Primarily to suppress any and all opposition to the pope. Side "benefits" included taking the material wealth of its victims and showing the pope's power. The Catholic Inquisitors tortured, crippled, burned, and imprisioned millions of people. Whatever happened to love your enemies? (Matthew 5:44)
To qoute Libby "As I expected." I'll just smile and wave just as I would a retarted kid who is waving at me from the next car.
Starman,
Let's search Oliver Cromwell, or...Martin Luther and the Jews. Think, Salem Witch Trials! All done by, not Catholics, but other Christians interpreting the Bible their own way.
I know, I know, you are not affiliated and do not identify yourself with those organized groups. It's quite nice, I'm sure, to be such a virtually invisible church that you can claim all of the goodness that Christanity has done for mankind, but then disassociate yourself from the errors of the sinners. We have here, the proverbial "nailing Jell-O to a wall".
You have not one shred of evidence that shows Bible Christianity, as you preach it, was ever accepted or practiced for 1400 years. Prior to Hus and Luther, you will be unable to product one document a Bible Christian wrote, or one historical event in which Bible Christians were involved. All of Christendom was Catholic, period. And the reason for that is not because the RCC suppressed or oppressed anyone, it's because the RCC is what Christ established and she is all that existed until hundreds and hundreds of years later.
I have never, ever suggested that people within the church are incapable of sin, including the pope. If that is what you believe, you seriously lack any understanding of the CC and as I said before, you better get to know what it teaches before you try to make a case against it.
I'll look at the link you provided, but I doubt its going to tell me anything I haven't heard a thousand times before. Have you offered me the same courtesy of looking at the links I've provided?
Let's search Oliver Cromwell, or...Martin Luther and the Jews. Think, Salem Witch Trials! All done by, not Catholics, but other Christians interpreting the Bible their own way.
I know, I know, you are not affiliated and do not identify yourself with those organized groups. It's quite nice, I'm sure, to be such a virtually invisible church that you can claim all of the goodness that Christanity has done for mankind, but then disassociate yourself from the errors of the sinners. We have here, the proverbial "nailing Jell-O to a wall".
You have not one shred of evidence that shows Bible Christianity, as you preach it, was ever accepted or practiced for 1400 years. Prior to Hus and Luther, you will be unable to product one document a Bible Christian wrote, or one historical event in which Bible Christians were involved. All of Christendom was Catholic, period. And the reason for that is not because the RCC suppressed or oppressed anyone, it's because the RCC is what Christ established and she is all that existed until hundreds and hundreds of years later.
I have never, ever suggested that people within the church are incapable of sin, including the pope. If that is what you believe, you seriously lack any understanding of the CC and as I said before, you better get to know what it teaches before you try to make a case against it.
I'll look at the link you provided, but I doubt its going to tell me anything I haven't heard a thousand times before. Have you offered me the same courtesy of looking at the links I've provided?
Satan has pitted Christian against Christian. As long as he can do that, he wins.
Do Catholics believe Jesus is the way to salvation? I think so.
Do Protestants believe Jesus is the way to salvation? I think so.
If we all would lift up Jesus instead of our own brand of cookie cutter Christianity, then we would be winning souls to the kingdom of God instead of reviling against each other.
Do Catholics believe Jesus is the way to salvation? I think so.
Do Protestants believe Jesus is the way to salvation? I think so.
If we all would lift up Jesus instead of our own brand of cookie cutter Christianity, then we would be winning souls to the kingdom of God instead of reviling against each other.
I do not believe Starman and Italian revile me, and I certainly do not harbor animosity towards them. I think our discussion stems from a sincere desire to make the fullness of Truth known, and that is for the glory of God. I do not question the motives of these particular guys, but I do challenge their accusations and therefore their style. It is appropriate within Christianity to admonish and instruct one another, as Paul did to Peter. Only it must be done with love, charity and with the utmost care to maintain humility, because whichever one of us has the fullness of Truth only has it by the grace of God.
I do appreciate your efforts to bring unity, though.
I do appreciate your efforts to bring unity, though.
You left something out. Admonishment of a brother or sister is to be done in private. An Internet forum is hardly private.libby said:
But in stating that you are admonishing, you are proclaiming that what Starman and Italian are proclaiming is sin. Is not being a Catholic a sin? Maybe you think so. I don't just as I don't think it is a sin to be a Catholic.
Again, we should concentrate on Jesus and proclaiming the gospel which unites all Christians rather that arguing about what divides us.
2A,
I am saying that I am instructing them, and that they are instructing me, each because we believe the other wants the Truth, but is, at this time, in error. I believe their motives are noble, and that they are doing as a sincere Christian should.
An internet forum is the most private any person can get, since everyone uses a pseudonym, so I don't think I've violated Matthew.
I am saying that I am instructing them, and that they are instructing me, each because we believe the other wants the Truth, but is, at this time, in error. I believe their motives are noble, and that they are doing as a sincere Christian should.
An internet forum is the most private any person can get, since everyone uses a pseudonym, so I don't think I've violated Matthew.
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
I agree. As a former catholic for 34 years, I came to see the error of their teachings. Do I hate them? NO. Did I stay? No. But, just as a Mom whose kid was killed by a drunk driver speaks out against drunk driving, so I am doing the same with this. The best ones to speak on any subject are those who've been there. I have ALWAYS found that, when I question someones beliefs, THEY are the ones who get angry & start name calling. Speak against my beliefs and I don't get angry, I tell you what the Bible says. Passionately at times, but never with anger. I never said anyone wasn't saved here and I did say, if the issues weren't serious, I wouldn't worry about them. I also know when to leave it alone and that's why I'm done here unless someone asks me something again. 
It is private because of anonymity, but it is publicly airing disputes that detract from the gospel. If this forum were closed to all but Christians, then it would be fine. It is not. It is open for the world to see. Muslims rejoice in the discord between Christians. Atheists point a finger and say see how bad you Christians are. That is my point about being private.libby said:
libby said:
They are public now. The letters of Paul were not public at the time. They were written to specific people or to specific congregations, all of whom were Christians. Have at it, but I think you are tearing down more than building up. But then I am no better. I am discussing this in the open as well.I think it is best for me to follow my own admonition and leave this topic.
God bless you richly.
Starman3000m
New Member
libby said:
Hi libby,
I believe that what ItalianScallion and I have been trying to get across to you and others is that a person does not need to be a "member/congregant" of any one specific "church" in order to receive the Free Gift of Salvation that is obtained by one's personal faith and acceptance of Jesus Christ as Lord and Resurrected Saviour. Believe He is the Son of the Living God & Sacrificial Lamb of God whose shed Blood Atones for the sins of mankind/ Saviour of mankind and Y'shua HaMashiach (Jesus, the Messiah) who will return to establish God's Peace on earth through the prophesied Millennial period.
Please, All, Remember: This thread began with the pope warning theologians about "theological arrogance" in their teachings and my response was that it is as much theologic arrogance for the pope to claim that the Vatican-led RCC is the only church that guarantees Salvation. It is well documented what the pope's position is and I have stated that that is not at all Biblical. However, congregants of the RCC are obligated to have the same view as the pope in believing that all other Christian denominations that do not recognize the authority of the pope are "defective" - because the pope said so.
libby said:
No, libby. That is what you have been taught to believe. The fact is: The term "Christianity" was a descriptive-term given to first-century Jews, all who were the original followers of Jesus Christ. (Acts 11:26) They were not only persecuted by the Jewish Orthodox leaders at that time but were subsequently persecuted and literally fed to the lions by the governnment of Rome. It wasn't until Rome realized that the so-called "Christian" movement could not be stopped that Rome usurped the direction and control of "Christianity" and moved its "headquarters" to Rome.
Fact: In the Holy Bible, Jesus did not say that His followers were to be called "Christians" instead Jesus said that His followers would be called Children of God because the doctrine that He brought was "not His" but was from our Holy Father, the reverent title exclusively meant for God.
And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection. (Luke 20:34-36)
Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. (John 7:16-17)
He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. (John 14:24)
And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. (John 17:11)
libby said:
libby, the Holy Bible is the only link we need in order to read about Jesus' life, historical accounts of God's Creation, mankinds fall from Grace and continued struggles. and victory that we have through His Promised Salvation and indwelling Holy Spirit, the prophesied return of Y'shua HaMashiach for His Millennial Reign, and then God's Final destruction of Satan's powers and the removal of Evil for eternity.
How we live our present lives in relationship with God is a daily decision. Those who have received God's Promise of Eternal Salvation are "Children of God"
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
(Romans 8:13-17)
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