Pope Benedict's Warning to Theologians
- Thread starter nhboy
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ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
Thank you my friend! We had a good radio program tonight and the guys there said the same thing. I know that I care about people or I wouldn't stay on here. I'm not mad at anyone because I was that way for a while also. No one could tell me anything. It's just disheartening but only for a time. Read John 8 and you'll see Jesus in rare form. Now that's name calling as far as He could go without sinning. Hang in there Starman, it's good to have backing here.Starman3000m said:
Starman3000m
New Member
Dork said:
LOL - No thanks, Dork, I'll stick with my usual diet of living by the Bread of Life. Plenty of spiritual sustenance with strength to tackle unforseen trials and tribulations of life. No better diet than to be served God's Words daily as written in the Holy Bible.
So, you can clown around with Ronald McDonald if you want but as for me, My Lord provides, thank you very much.
Jesus said, "I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst." (John 6:35)
So the question is this: Since Protestant, Evangelical and non-Denominational Christians do not recognize the authority of the pope but through personal faith trust in Jesus Christ as sole Redeemer, would the Vatican agree that one does not have to belong to the Roman Catholic Church in order to receive God’s Eternal Plan of Salvation through Christ?
The Vatican would certainly not judge any particular soul as lost, just because that soul is a Bible Christian instead of a Catholic Christian.
And, would the Vatican concede that members of other Christian Churches (not just the RCC) therefore, adhere to the same exact faith that assures spiritual salvation for all humanity?
You know very well we do not adhere to the exact same faith, because you and I disagree about what Jesus said/did when He was here. Everything I believe can be found in Scripture, yet we disagree on the interpretation of the passages. If we get into a discussion about this, you will find that I do not use "portions of the Bible", as you stated in your earlier post. The words of God are inextricably linked together into one beautiful story of salvation history.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, "From what source does Peter state the revelation of Truth that Jesus is The Son of the Living God? The Holy Bible. (Matthew 16:13-19) because Peter was not looking at Scripture, it was revealed by the Father at that time. I'll assume I'm missing your point.
For all of your statements about where to find this-or-that, and the answer being "The Holy Bible", we need to pause for a moment.
Did the Apostles and first century Christians practice their faith by reading their Bible daily, as I'm sure you do, for guidance and wisdom?
Did the Christians of the first 300-400 years recognize, categorically, the Bible you now hold in your hand?
For the first 1400 years of Christendom, before the advent of the printing press, did men have a lesser chance at salvation because they did not have access to a Bible. (and puuullllleeeezzzzeee refrain from saying the Catholic Church locked them up, that is ssoooo old).
Do the illiterate have a lesser chance of salvation because they cannot read the Bible?
Gotta go, I'll get to the rest later.
The Vatican would certainly not judge any particular soul as lost, just because that soul is a Bible Christian instead of a Catholic Christian.
And, would the Vatican concede that members of other Christian Churches (not just the RCC) therefore, adhere to the same exact faith that assures spiritual salvation for all humanity?
You know very well we do not adhere to the exact same faith, because you and I disagree about what Jesus said/did when He was here. Everything I believe can be found in Scripture, yet we disagree on the interpretation of the passages. If we get into a discussion about this, you will find that I do not use "portions of the Bible", as you stated in your earlier post. The words of God are inextricably linked together into one beautiful story of salvation history.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, "From what source does Peter state the revelation of Truth that Jesus is The Son of the Living God? The Holy Bible. (Matthew 16:13-19) because Peter was not looking at Scripture, it was revealed by the Father at that time. I'll assume I'm missing your point.
For all of your statements about where to find this-or-that, and the answer being "The Holy Bible", we need to pause for a moment.
Did the Apostles and first century Christians practice their faith by reading their Bible daily, as I'm sure you do, for guidance and wisdom?
Did the Christians of the first 300-400 years recognize, categorically, the Bible you now hold in your hand?
For the first 1400 years of Christendom, before the advent of the printing press, did men have a lesser chance at salvation because they did not have access to a Bible. (and puuullllleeeezzzzeee refrain from saying the Catholic Church locked them up, that is ssoooo old).
Do the illiterate have a lesser chance of salvation because they cannot read the Bible?
Gotta go, I'll get to the rest later.
Bavarian
New Member
How do you expect to receive the Body and Blood of Christ when you are not Catholic or Orthadox? Only priests in the Catholic and Ortadox Churches have valid orders and may consecrate the Bread and wine, transforming them into the Most Precious Body and Blood of Christ that we may receive.Starman3000m said:
Roughidle
New Member
Bavarian said:
I receive it straight from the man, no middle man needed. Who ever administers it, at whatever church, is of little to no consequence to me. Wether it is wine and a communion wafer or water and a soda cracker is of the same importance to me. My relationship with God is my own.
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ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
Dork said:
Son, you are aptly named! 
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
There's hope for everyone but God might have to work overtime to UN-INDOCTRINATE YOU! May God help you see the light.Bavarian said:
You do realize that the Theory of Transubstantiation (the transforming of bread and wine into the actual Body and Blood of Christ) did not become Catholic doctrine until the Forth Lateran Council in 1215 A.D. don't you? Or do you? You might want to consider that.Bavarian said:
Dork
Highlander's MPD
ItalianScallion said:
So, you wanna make the 10:00 mass? I can meet you at your church's parking lot. There won't be many cars there so you shouldn't have a hard time finding me. I'll be the one sitting in my car praying to my mother mary statue.
See ya then!
Wrong. There are many, many writings of the earliest church fathers from Ignatius of Antioch to Justin Martyr who believe as the Catholic Church teaches today. At the moment I will not bother to link you to any sites because you will fall back on your own interpretation of the Bible.2ndAmendment said:
My purpose in bringing this up is only to refute your allegation that it was made up 1200 years later, when in truth it has been there from the beginning.
You should research the history of the Catholic Church before you make claims of this kind. I'm not suggesting you will agree with what the church teaches, but get your facts straight.
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
No thanks buddy. I just hope that your statue will help you when you meet Jesus and us "in the parking lot" on judgment day in the New Jerusalem. Love ya dude!Dork said:
Starman3000m
New Member
Bavarian said:
Dear Bavarian, what you have stated is an example of how church doctrine is able to control its followers. You state that "only priests in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches have valid orders to consecrate the Bread and Wine to the physical Body and Blood of Christ.
This is not Biblical and would be considered heresy by the Lord Jesus Christ for the following reasons:
1.) Jesus is alive in a Resurrected state - no longer flesh and blood.
2.) To imply that Bread is literally "turned into Christ's Flesh" and Wine literally "turned into His Blood" is taking a symbolic saying of Jesus and teaching it to be a literal meaning.
3.) When Jesus shared the Bread and Wine with His Disciples at the time of the Last Supper - it was just that - Bread and Wine.
4.) Jesus many times spoke in symbolic terms which could be interpreted by the listener in one of two ways: in the flesh (carnal mind) or in the Spirit (Spiritual discernment and understanding).
5.) Regarding the Communion: Jesus reminded His followers to partake of this Communion as a "Remembrance" of the Perfect Divine Life that He lived on earth and that gives us Life - and "Remembrance of His Atoning Blood that He shed on the Cross and which washes away the sins of those who believe upon Him. That is what the Children of God are never to forget for we have been bought with the Price that Jesus paid through His Atonement.
6.)Those who repent and accept Christ as Lord and Saviour receive the indwelling Holy Spirit of God - this is the Manna from Heaven of The New Covenant.
7.) It is not by a person's work and not any church but by God's Grace that we receive Salvation.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (Titus 3:5)
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. (1 Corinthians 6:19-20)
Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. (1 Corinthians 7:23)
The Holy Bible explains the symbolic meaning of Jesus' sayings:
The Bread of Life: (John Chapter 6:58-63)
58: This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
59: These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
60: Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?
61: When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
62: What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63: It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
(John 7:37-39)
37: In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.
38: He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39: (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
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Bavarian
New Member
You, Starman, are trying to justify the fact that you do not have the Truth. Your statements show why Ecumminism will never work with your kind. You are not ready to return to the Fold. You twist bible references for your own benefit, but when presented with proof you are wrong, youy conveniently ignore the quotation.
Starman,
There are just as many passages to support the True Presence, and as we've gone over already throughout this thread, you have no basis for the claim that your interpretation is any more valid than mine. Both of us claim guidance from the Holy Spirit, and one of us is wrong. For Italian to fall back on "indoctrination" and "brainwashing" is to cop-out of a meaningful discussion.
My Jesus gave His life that I might live, and as if that were not enough, He continues to humble Himself so that I can receive Him and be transformed by Him.
My guess is, you are not going to want to study the passages with me, though. You've both said you are beating a dead horse, but if you change your mind, just let me know.
There are just as many passages to support the True Presence, and as we've gone over already throughout this thread, you have no basis for the claim that your interpretation is any more valid than mine. Both of us claim guidance from the Holy Spirit, and one of us is wrong. For Italian to fall back on "indoctrination" and "brainwashing" is to cop-out of a meaningful discussion.
My Jesus gave His life that I might live, and as if that were not enough, He continues to humble Himself so that I can receive Him and be transformed by Him.
My guess is, you are not going to want to study the passages with me, though. You've both said you are beating a dead horse, but if you change your mind, just let me know.
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
The "basis for the claim" Libby is the Bible but you and Bavarian refuse to listen. No one ever wins going against God's Word, so I have not "copped out" I'm just getting nowhere with you folks that's all. I hate no one here. There's just no sense in going further. Love ya!libby said:
Starman3000m
New Member
libby said:
libby, the "True Presence of God" is through the indwelling Holy Spirit of God, the Power that gives us spiritual strength and guidance from God.
Even Jesus said that the Kingdom of God upon the earth was Spiritual - not physical as in a human representative or any organized religious institution.
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:20-21)
God's True Presence of earth right now is manifest in the Holy Spirit sent to indwell those who trust Jesus as Lord and Saviour:
As Jesus stated:
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (John 16:7)
Sorry, libby, but I believe that the pope is not perfect and Catholic priests do not have the power to forgive sins. Forgiveness is from God alone through the Atoning Blood of Christ. Divine Perfection and sinlessness are qualities that only Jesus had - all others have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God.
Christ alone is our High Priest:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Romans 3:23)
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. (Hebrews 4:15)
There is no point in your trying to convince me that the pope is God's exclusive representative of earth because that is not at all Biblical.
Starman3000m
New Member
Bavarian said:
C'mon Bavarian, you have not really presented any proof that the pope is God's exclusive representative on earth. The truth is that Rome made that declaration - not Jesus. And as far as ecumenism - No it cannot work as long as the Vatican continues to regard itself as the "True Church" and refuses to acknowledge that others can receive Salvation from God without belonging to the Roman Catholic Church and acknowledge that one does not have to submit to the authority of the pope in order to be right with God. I really don't see that happening - do you?
The Biblical stipulation for Salvation is that a person needs to repent and submit to God through Faith in His Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ. From that point on, the Holy Spirit guides us in our spiritual life and walk with God on a daily basis.
Sayings like "Return to the fold" and "Come back home" are marketing clichés drummed up by the RCC in an effort to attract those who have left Catholicism. But, they left for a reason, Bavarian, and that is that they learned that they were being controlled by the "Church" and not by God.
Whom do you wish to be controlled by - the Church or God?