Disgusting
Post Birth Abortion Becomes Acceptable
- Thread starter mAlice
- Start date
Disgusting
black dog
Free America
Each time this conversation comes up you head farther and farther down the rabbit hole.
I'll sleep well tonight, So how many of the surplus unwanted infants through teens in the US have you adapted and raised through college?
You should look into adopting a black kid or three, theirs plenty available.
You could help out the next Ben Carson..
Last edited:
It is because it is a strawman argument. A fetus can not live outside the womb without physically being connected to and feeding off the mothers body. Once it is born it can be nourished and raised by anyone with time , patience and milk. The mother or host is no longer necessary.
Or Colin Kaepernick.
This_person
Well-Known Member
The obvious reason would be to try and listen to understand, not to reply, and figure out why I think killing is killing.
This_person
Well-Known Member
Explain to me what you believe the difference is. Why is killing before the cord is cut "the woman's choice", but this choice the woman made "a level of evil"?
Fair enough. I'm happy to have the conversation.
This_person
Well-Known Member
It's actually not hypocrisy. While I am not condoning the whole involuntary-sterilization or racists things, but wanting to let people be born "even though, statistically speaking, these kids are likely to grow up and be another drain on society" means that we want them to not be drains on society - whether that is through their own actions to be responsible for themselves or removing the life-long-load-on-society programs that let people be those drains (and, instead, give them a chance to NOT be a drain).
That's all about personal responsibility. This is NOT about anything beyond that. We don't want Woman A to kill Woman B any more than we want Woman A to kill Child A. We don't want to support Drain A, but we're not willing to put a preemptive death penalty on them for "statistically speaking". We expect Woman A to have personal responsibility (and Man A) to do what all is necessary to not get pregnant if they don't want to, but not the authority to KILL someone for their inability to achieve the goal of not being pregnant.
This_person
Well-Known Member
I knew a guy who was an unwanted child born of a mother in a mixed-race relationship where the baby-daddy left early on and provided no support. The kid went from home to home with this unwed mother and her string of new boyfriends and husbands, moved him all over the place, until the maternal grandparents had to take control of the kid.
You know him too. As "President Obama".
Spare me your selective outrage and hypocrisy.
I rest my case.
This_person
Well-Known Member
It's a distraction, not an argument. You are distracting from the idea of killing a child by suggesting the child is somehow an inferior human who can't live in an environment it was never meant to live in. If you DON'T take it out of the mother, it has a much higher likelihood of surviving, right?
But, the conversation is about the differences, and you bring them up - only the mother can keep the baby she willingly placed in her womb alive for about 18-24 weeks, and then it could be unnaturally removed from that environment and survive on a completely different set of nurturing, this time with machines and medical care.
So, I would like to remove the logical fallacy that there is some sort of requirement to remove the child from the womb, as the mother willingly placed it there. If the mother willingly placed a child who was 2 days old in a snowbank, or stopped feeding it when she is the only person in a home, we would consider that murder, yes? Negligent homicide, at least, because she implicitly is expected to care for the child if she is the only one there to do so. The same is true for the father, or a passer-by even. If the father is all alone in a home, has the means to care for his child, but does not and that lack of care ends up with the child dead, we would say he committed at least negligent homicide.
After all, what did the mother in this thread do - she took her child and simply let go. Is it or is it not her responsibility to have cared for that child? Certainly, it is considered her responsibility until relieved of that responsibility in some way.
Why is it different for her to be responsible for a child she willingly placed in her womb?
This is the philosophical question we need to discuss.
This_person
Well-Known Member
I'm not catholic, but it made a good ad.
[video=youtube;0vDQCv0yYaQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vDQCv0yYaQ[/video]
Last edited:
black dog
Free America
Talk about Hyper-Bole.....Where did you come up with he was unwanted?
And i cant believe i'm standing up for obama......
Parents' background and meeting[edit]
Obama's parents met in 1960 while attending the University of Hawaii at Manoa. Obama's father, Barack Obama, Sr., the university's first foreign student from an African nation,[4] hailed from Kanyadhiang, Rachuonyo District, in the Nyanza Province of western Kenya.[2][5] Obama's mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, known as Ann, had been born in Wichita. They married on the Hawaiian island of Maui on February 2, 1961.[6] Barack Hussein Obama, born in Honolulu on August 4, 1961 at the old Kapiolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital at 1611 Bingham Street (a predecessor of the Kapiʻolani Medical Center for Women and Children at 1319 Punahou Street), was named for his father.[4][7][8] The Honolulu Advertiser and the Honolulu Star-Bulletin announced the birth.[9]
Soon after their son's birth, while Obama's father continued his education at the University of Hawaii, Ann Dunham took the infant to Seattle, Washington, where she took classes at the University of Washington from September 1961 to June 1962. She and her son lived in an apartment in the Capitol Hill neighborhood.[10] After graduating from the University of Hawaii with a B.A. in economics, Obama, Sr. left the state in June 1962, moving to Cambridge, Massachusetts for graduate study in economics at Harvard University that Autumn.[4][11][12][13]
Ann Dunham returned with her son to Honolulu and in January 1963 resumed her undergraduate education at the University of Hawaii.[10] In January 1964, Dunham filed for divorce, which was not contested.[6] Barack Obama, Sr. later graduated from Harvard University with an A.M. in economics and in 1965 returned to Kenya.[11][12][14]
During her first year back at the University of Hawaii, Dunham met Lolo Soetoro.[15] He was one year into his American experience, after two semesters on the Manoa campus and a summer on the mainland at Northwestern and the University of Wisconsin, when he encountered Dunham, then an undergraduate interested in anthropology. A surveyor from Indonesia, he had come to Honolulu in September 1962 on an East-West Center grant to study at the University of Hawaii.[16] He earned a M.A. in geography in June 1964.
Dunham and Soetoro married on March 15, 1965, on Molokai. They returned to Honolulu to live with her son as a family.[17] After two one-year extensions of his J-1 visa, Soetoro returned to Indonesia on June 20, 1966.[18] Dunham and her son moved in with her parents at their house. She continued with her studies, earning a B.A. in anthropology in August 1967, while her son attended kindergarten in 1966–1967 at Noelani Elementary School.[19][20]
Indonesia[edit]
In October 1967 Obama and his mother moved to Jakarta to rejoin his stepfather. The family initially lived in a newly built neighborhood in the Menteng Dalam administrative village of the Tebet subdistrict in South Jakarta for two and a half years, while Soetoro worked on a topographic survey for the Indonesian government.[21][22] From January 1968 to December 1969, Obama's mother taught English and served as an assistant director of the U.S. government-subsidized Indonesia-America Friendship Institute,[23] while Obama attended the Indonesian-language Santo Fransiskus Asisi (St. Francis of Assisi) Catholic School around the corner from their house for 1st, 2nd, and part of 3rd grade.[21]
Obama's mother met a transgender or "waria" (as they are known locally in Indonesia) woman named Turdi (later changed to Evie), at a cocktail party in 1969. Dunham was so impressed by Turdi's beef steak and fried rice that she offered her a job in the family home. It didn't take long before Turdi was also caretaker for then eight-year-old "Barry", as Obama was often referred to as then, and his baby sister Maya. As caretaker, she also spent time playing with Obama and bringing him to and from school, which she continued to do for about two years.[24]
In 1970 Soetoro took a new job at higher pay in Union Oil Company's government relations office.[4][21][25][26][27][28] From January 1970 to August 1972, Obama's mother taught English and was a department head and a director of the Institute of Management Education and Development.[23] Obama attended the Indonesian-language government-run Besuki School, one-and-half miles east in the exclusive Menteng administrative village, for part of 3rd grade and for 4th grade. By this time, he had picked up on some Indonesian in addition to his native English.[21] He also joined the Cub Scouts.[29]
In the summer of 1970 Obama returned to Hawaii for an extended visit with his maternal grandparents, Stanley and Madelyn Dunham. His mother had also arranged an interview for possible admission to the Punahou School in Honolulu, one of the top private schools in the city.[30] On August 15, 1970, Dunham and Soetoro celebrated the birth of their daughter, Maya Kassandra Soetoro.[31]
Return to Hawaii[edit]
Obama (right) with his father in Hawaii. ca. 1971
In mid-1971, Obama moved back to Hawaii to live with his grandparents and attend Punahou School starting in fifth grade.[32][33] In December 1971, the boy was visited for a month by his father, Barack Obama Sr., from Kenya. It was the last time Obama would see his father. This was followed by his mother visiting her son and parents in Honolulu from late-1971 to January 1972.
In August 1972, Dunham returned to Hawaii, bringing along the young Maya, Obama's half-sister. Dunham started graduate study in anthropology at the University of Hawaii at Manoa. From sixth grade through eighth grade at Punahou, Obama lived with his mother and Maya.[34][35]
Obama's mother completed her coursework at the University of Hawaii for an M.A. in anthropology in December 1974.[36] After three years in Hawaii, she and Maya returned to Jakarta in August 1975,[37] where Dunham completed her contract with the Institute of Management Education and Development and started anthropological field work.[38] Obama chose to stay with his grandparents in Honolulu to continue his studies at Punahou School for his high school years.[8][39]
In his memoir, Obama describes his experiences growing up in his mother's middle class family. His knowledge about his African father, who returned once for a brief visit in 1971, came mainly through family stories and photographs.[40] Of his early childhood, Obama writes: "That my father looked nothing like the people around me—that he was black as pitch, my mother white as milk—barely registered in my mind."[5] The book describes his struggles as a young adult to reconcile social perceptions of his multiracial heritage.[41] He wrote that he used alcohol, marijuana, and cocaine during his teenage years to "push questions of who I was out of my mind".[42] Obama was also a member of the "choom gang", a self-named group of friends that spent time together and occasionally smoked marijuana.[43][44] Obama has said that it was a serious mistake. At the Saddleback Civil Presidential Forum, Barack Obama identified his high-school drug use as his greatest moral failure.[45] Obama has stated he has not used any illegal drugs since he was a teenager.[46]
Some of his fellow students attending Punahou School later told the Honolulu Star-Bulletin that Obama was mature for his age as a high school student and that he sometimes attended parties and other events in order to associate with African American college students and military service people. Reflecting later on his formative years in Honolulu, Obama wrote: "The opportunity that Hawaii offered—to experience a variety of cultures in a climate of mutual respect—became an integral part of my world view, and a basis for the values that I hold most dear."[47]
This_person
Well-Known Member
I was looking at the father. Pretty sure there's no need to go into the obvious thoughts his father didn't want him.
My personal views on abortion really don't matter here and being for or against abortion doesn't change my mind here. My stance is that it's a woman's choice. In a free society, in a society where you argued with Sap for pages and pages about the freedom to discriminate, women should have that choice.
I'm saying that the woman gave birth. The child was out of her. She then killed it. I'm not willing to equate that level of evil to a woman getting an abortion.
They'll obviously need food and shelter, but biologically speaking, yes.
I've always been surprised more conservatives aren't for abortion. How many threads pop up where some "conservatives" on this site call for a person to be steralized, or talk about black people, thugs, etc. yet these same people want offspring of these people to be born regardless of the fact that statistically speaking, these kids are likely to griow up and be another drain on society. I know it sounds horrible, but it is what it is.
Now, on the flip side, teen pregnancy rates are at all time lows. Likely due to contraceptives being readily available to kids in lieu of the abstinence method often taught or promoted by these same groups of people who are against abortion.
All of this
No. It is not. Until the fetus is 21 weeks (which is the youngest premie on record) the fetus is a growth dependent on the mother's body and thus a part of her body over which she has full domain and can decide to with what she pleases.
.
I'm sure some women have individual hairs older than that but you went out there trying to keep them from cutting it? It is the exact same thing until the fetus is no longer connected, dependent and a part of a womans body.
mAlice
professional daydreamer
You're seriously comparing a baby to a hair?