Powell/Bush '08

[rraley]

Raley, do you think for one minute the GOP wouldn't jump at the chance to elect the first real black President? And put to rest, once and for all, the lie that the Republicans are a bunch of KKK members? Silence Jesse Jackson and his ilk for good?

No doubt they are, but the fact remains that they don't want a pro-choice, pro-AA nominee...they would prefer James Watts, etc.

Still, this whole debate is for nothing...Powell won't run.

 

[vraiblonde]

Still, this whole debate is for nothing...Powell won't run.

It's not for nothing - it's for fun!

I think the GOP's biggest strategic problem right now is how to get the black vote. If they could make some headway, they'd rule forever. I think they'd hold their nose at the pro-choice, pro-AA.

 

[rraley]

I think what would be better for the GOP is for them to get going with Hispanic outreach...the Hispanic voting bloc does not have a longstanding committment/ancestral connection to the Democratic Party like African-Americans and furthermore that bloc is growing while the black bloc is staying relatively stable.

 

[SmallTown]

Raley, do you think for one minute the GOP wouldn't jump at the chance to elect the first real black President? And put to rest, once and for all, the lie that the Republicans are a bunch of KKK members?

Would that really be there motivation? Talk about a party that has lost track of it's values and identity.

 

[Larry Gude]

rr...

I'm commenting on the fact that the base Republican electorate is pro-life, anti-Affirmative Action, and inclined to support wars

The VAST majority of voting age Americans, Dem and GOP, have serious reservations about abortion but are also not comfortable banning it. This includes MOST Democrats. Democrats are not allowed to talk about abortion in any terms other than 100% womans choice. No limits.

If only Republicans voted on abortion rights, A. a total ban or B. legal with limits including parental notification for minors and a ban on later term, guess what, it would be B. You are stereotyping. Wrongly.

The VAST majority of Americans are against race based affirmative action. There is no problem and in fact total support to help minorities and poorer folks with things like tuition. There is NO support to lower standards but that is the bastard child that a good idea became; Racism to fix racism, lowering of standards to raise standards.

Again, you stereotype, wrongly. Ever notice what color Powell and Rice ARE?
Read their resumes? Read the opinion of Clarence Thomas who directly benfited from race based policies?

War support. I submit for your perusal that Clintons actions, his 'non support' of war, made the ones were fighting now inevitable. This is demonstrable.

You've got this myopic, stereotypical view of the GOP and that's fine. As men and women like Powell and Rice are in the GOP and not Democrats, I just expected more from you than stereotypes.

Again, in the Democratic party there is no dynamic debate because it lives it's stereotypes.

 

[Larry Gude]

St...

I personally think Powell is exactly the person we need in office, but deep down at the roots he is not the person the republicans want.

CLANG CLANG

Is this mic on? Can you hear me?

I WOULD VOTE FOR POWELL IN A SECOND. He is my FIRST choice. I am a Republican. Get it? Are you talking about the far right? It's a wing, not a root.

That's like saying Hillary is not the person far left Democrats want BECAUSE she supported the war, because she is not pure.

You and I seem to see Powell the same way, exactly the person we need next. Are you not hearing that?

The person Republicans will always 'want' is Ronald Reagan. The person Democrats will always 'want' is JFK, Kennedy, not Kerry.

 

[Larry Gude]

My stars....

they would prefer James Watts, etc.

You need to stop reading your James Carville tour of the GOP comic books.

James Watts. You wanna be judged by Bryd? He holds elected office.
Or Maxine Waters?

 

[Bustem' Down]

It won't happen. Powell has already gone on record in an interview saying that he will not seek public office anymore. Even if he did, he won't run for pres for the same reasons he declined running in 2000.

 

[Bruzilla]

Pro-choice, pro-Affirmative Action, not too inclined to support wars...doesn't sound too much like the first choice of Republican voters.

I'm with you on this RR! You've hit the nail on the head. Many try to label Colin Powell as a thoughtful, reluctant warrior, but he was a class-c business manager in a nice uniform. Unfortunately, in today's military, that's how many senior officers make it through the ranks. Powell dragged his feet for so long going up to Desert Storm that he just about left tracks in the pavement around the Pentagon. No matter what was done to get the troops ready to go, it was never enough. We always needed to delay a bit longer to make sure everything was as close to 100% as possible. If Powell had been Prez or SECDEF we would still be waiting to go into Kuwait. Rumsfeld was dead-on when he said you go to war with the army you've got, not the army you want. Powell, like most crappy managers, is so hung up on risk mitigation and covering his ass that he can't take action, and that's not a guy you want as a leader.

Rudi G and RINO John aren't ever going to see the nomination either. I think Jeb Bush has done a fantastic job as governor down here, but a third Bush in the White House isn't going to happen anytime soon. I'm sticking with Condi Rice and a to be determined popular Republican governor in 08.

 

[SmallTown]

CLANG CLANG

Is this mic on? Can you hear me?

I WOULD VOTE FOR POWELL IN A SECOND. He is my FIRST choice. I am a Republican. Get it? Are you talking about the far right? It's a wing, not a root.

I'm not arguing that YOU wouldn't vote for Powell. Unfortunately, you wouldn't be the only person in the country voting in the primaries or the main elections. With all of the talk in the last election about values, I just can't see the whole party accepting someone like Powell. Or was all of that values talk just playing to the voters ears, and they don't really care about it as long as they win the election?

 

[bresamil]

It won't happen. Powell has already gone on record in an interview saying that he will not seek public office anymore. Even if he did, he won't run for pres for the same reasons he declined running in 2000.

Unfortunately, I believe you are correct. Plus he and his wife are very much a team, and she has asked him to not run.

I would vote for Powell. Everything I know of him, as a military leader, as SecState, as a person, has earned nothing but respect. He's a class act.

We're planning an event this summer and are debating whether to have him as guest speaker, even though he'll no longer be SecState. Everyone wants him, we're definitely "Powell groupies".

 

[Larry Gude]

Hey...

Powell has already gone on record in an interview saying that he will not seek public office anymore

If that's the case, so be it. I'm not interested in 'draft Powell' movements or the like.

Never, and I mean NEVER, give a job to someone who doesn't want it.

 

[SamSpade]

Or was all of that values talk just playing to the voters ears, and they don't really care about it as long as they win the election?

For some reason, the *first* time I heard much buzz about "values" was *AFTER* the election, with respect to the much ballyhooed "exit polls", notorious for their famous INaccuracy.

In them, the number one issue was "moral values" which garnered some 20% of the total. Since they did NOT specify which party affiliation most likely gave this response, I'm going out on a limb and guess that a substantial portion were NOT Republicans - unless, of course, it's conceded that not a single Democrat gives a rat's azz about "moral values".

Since slightly more than half the eligible voters got off their butts and voted, I'd go ahead and say less than 10% and possibly as few as 5% of Republicans put "moral values" at the top of their agenda. No matter how nice or odious the concept, the numbers simply do not support the idea that it was the driving force behind the election. It was a news-grabbing afterthought, with the usual journalistic integrity supporting it. Ok, it was all just BS.

 

[Larry Gude]

st...

Unfortunately, you wouldn't be the only person in the country voting in the primaries or the main elections. With all of the talk in the last election about values, I just can't see the whole party accepting someone like Powell.

What I am saying is that when you get a Colin Powell on a stage, say in a primary fashion, he has that 'thing', that gravitas or star power.

People like Clinton and Reagan had to spend time getting on the national stage until enough people could see it and then the momentum takes over from there. By the time Reagan made the rounds in '76 it was to late, the party was going with Ford. Clinton stuck out from a mediocre group in for '92 and was able to overcome all his...issues.

Powell is already known nation wide. If he wants it, he has the weight to move past objections from people who want...who? over him.

As far as Bruzilla and the foot dragging class c manager view, maybe so. Or maybe the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs is not a front line fighter. Maybe his job IS to fight tooth and nail to get the services as ready as possible. Which he did.

It was certainly not his job to decide to go to war. If he effectively wrestled with Cheney and Bush 41 to achieve overwhelming force on the ground, then that is a good thing, no? They didn't fire him.

The bottom line, to me, is that when we went, we went and it was OVER, game, set, match. Iraq stood their ground and got tsunami'd and the coutry was ready to submit.

This laid the grown work for the next fight which, obviously, Saddam was prepared for. He could not stand against us so, prepare for the gorilla war.

So, we roll in with a couple divisions and move right through them. They don't stand, they go into hiding. 4th ID can't come down from the north, the plan is screwed from the start. Desert Storm was a masterpiece.

I submit that had we gone to Baghdad with the force assembled in '91, it would have been a different story from what we are dealing with now.

 

[rraley]

In them, the number one issue was "moral values" which garnered some 20% of the total. Since they did NOT specify which party affiliation most likely gave this response, I'm going out on a limb and guess that a substantial portion were NOT Republicans - unless, of course, it's conceded that not a single Democrat gives a rat's azz about "moral values".

SamSpade, of those who cited moral values as their number one issue, 80% voted for President Bush. Seems like a strong correlation to me.

 

[vraiblonde]

of those who cited moral values as their number one issue, 80% voted for President Bush

Well, sure. They're not going to vote for John Kerry - who divorced and got an annulment no less, effectively bastardizing his own children. Says the eff word in interviews. Then his sleazy daughter shows up in a see-through dress at some awards show. No, I think we can safely say that John Kerry won't be getting the "morals vote" any time soon.

Ronald Reagan being divorced was a BIG deal back in 1980. And he won anyway, which shows you what a loser Jimmy Carter was.

 

[rraley]

of those who cited moral values as their number one issue, 80% voted for President BushQUOTE]
Well, sure. They're not going to vote for John Kerry - who divorced and got an annulment no less, effectively bastardizing his own children. Says the eff word in interviews. Then his sleazy daughter shows up in a see-through dress at some awards show. No, I think we can safely say that John Kerry won't be getting the "morals vote" any time soon.

Ronald Reagan being divorced was a BIG deal back in 1980. And he won anyway, which shows you what a loser Jimmy Carter was.

Well, wouldn't we expect that almost all of the 80% of the "values" voters are Republicans or conservatives?

 

[vraiblonde]

Well, wouldn't we expect that almost all of the 80% of the "values" voters are Republicans or conservatives?

Yes. Yes we would.

 

[SmallTown]

Yes. Yes we would.

I didn't quite follow what his point was there!

 

[rraley]

To clarify, it seems that if 80% of the people who labeled their top concern in the election to be "moral values" voted for President Bush, they are more likely than not to be Republican. In other words, the GOP has a much higher percentage of voters who place cultural issues at the top of their list of concerns. These people will NOT EVER vote for a pro-choicer, if they are Powell or not.