Prince Frederick "March" 6-1 AAR

Goldenhawk

Well-Known Member
There's no point in discussing anything liberty-related with LightRoasted. His views are so hard-core libertarian "leave me alone" that logic won't stick. I now refuse to engage with his diatribes, and thanks to the Ignore feature generally don't see them any more, unless anonymously quoted.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

Really? Is that in the Constitution or is that what you think it should be? Don't think so. If it did there would be no need for inferior courts, would there?
While I can agree with that sentiment I fail to see the connection to the issue at hand, which is peaceful assembly versus what is not peaceful. The matter has been ruled upon in the case I cited earlier. The fact that you do not agree with that decision is not relevant.
They most certainly can and are impacted all of the time. For instance, lets take a look at two of these "inalienable rights", life and liberty. Life can and is taken for certain heinous crimes either by being put to death or imprisoned without possibility of parole. Liberty is taken away far more often upon conviction of various crimes and in many cases prior to conviction if the person is deemed a threat to others while awaiting trial or is a threat to flee prosecution. So at least be realistic in your notion of what can and cannot happen with regard to inalienable rights.

Also, I am neither blind, fearful, nor ignorant to reality.
You twist everything around. Of course, if a person commits a heinous crime, their life, liberty, rights, can be forfeit. So goes for any crime against a person, or the property of another. However, where you are wrong, is our rights are inalienable, as long as we are responsible, individually, for our actions. What is so hard for you and others to comprehend? We, individually, are free people. With rights, some say god given, but defiantly rights we are naturally born with, and enshrined in the Constitution telling governments, HANDS OFF! It's hands off until such a time as someone commits a crime. Why can't you and others understand that?
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
However, where you are wrong, is our rights are inalienable, as long as we are responsible, individually, for our actions. What is so hard for you and others to comprehend?
And where you are wrong and failing to comprehend is that when the assembly was over, and not all participants departed the event in a reasonable, proper, peaceful and agreed upon manner, the local authority, being authorized under statute, directed those remaining to depart. It was a legal order and under statute that refusal to comply made those persons responsible for committing disorderly conduct, you know a crime. Pretty amazing that you don't understand that.
 

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
And where you are wrong and failing to comprehend is that when the assembly was over, and not all participants departed the event in a reasonable, proper, peaceful and agreed upon manner, the local authority, being authorized under statute, directed those remaining to depart. It was a legal order and under statute that refusal to comply made those persons responsible for committing disorderly conduct, you know a crime. Pretty amazing that you don't understand that.
:yay:
Deliberately obtuse.
 

willie

Well-Known Member
The more that I read about how the liberal leaders in the rest of the country are handling the trouble makers, the more I like the way Evans did the job. I do think the outsiders from Virginia should have been dealt with a bit harsher.
 

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
The more that I read about how the liberal leaders in the rest of the country are handling the trouble makers, the more I like the way Evans did the job. I do think the outsiders from Virginia should have been dealt with a bit harsher.

:yay:

I'm sure Sheriff Evans had more information on this event and the group being tied to it (in addition to those individuals and groups wanting to attach themselves to it) than the general public did, and having that information, he made decisions on how to handle the situation the way he did.

That's his job.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

And where you are wrong and failing to comprehend is that when the assembly was over, and not all participants departed the event in a reasonable, proper, peaceful and agreed upon manner, the local authority, being authorized under statute, directed those remaining to depart. It was a legal order and under statute that refusal to comply made those persons responsible for committing disorderly conduct, you know a crime. Pretty amazing that you don't understand that.

You, fail to comprehend, understand. The US Constitution is the Supreme Law of the land. There is no "statute" or law, that, Federal, State, Local, governments, can create that may override the Constitution.

“All laws [or statutes] which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.” (Marbury vs.Madison, 1803.)

“Every law consistent with the Constitution will have been made in pursuance of the powers granted by it. Every usurpation or law repugnant to it cannot have been made in pursuance of its powers. The latter will be nugatory and void.” (Thomas Jefferson, Elliot, p. 4:187-88.)

“Then do you profess to ignore the laws of the land? No; not unless they are unconstitutional, then I would do it all the time. Whenever the Congress of the United States, for instance, pass a law interfering with my religion, or with my religious rights, I will read a small portion of that instrument called the Constitution of the United States, now almost obsolete, which says — ‘Congress shall pass no law interfering with religion or the free exercise thereof;’ and I would say, gentlemen, you may go to Gibraltar with your law, and I will live my religion. When you become violators of the Constitution you have sworn before high heaven to uphold, and perjure yourselves before God, then I will maintain the right, and leave you to take the wrong just as you please.” (John Taylor, The Complete Difference Between the Saints and the World, Journal of Discourses, 11: 344 - 345. March 31, 1867.)

The Constitution acknowledges that the people have all power not reserved to itself.

So what, if the "agreed" upon manner changed? It is not the roll of government, or the Sheriff, to say what is, "a reasonable, proper, peaceful and agreed upon manner", (excepting dealing with anarchists, trouble makers, brick throwers, etc.), to begin with. Because it is an interference of a protected and guaranteed right of the people. If a thousand people wanted to peaceably assemble and petition the government, sitting, standing, walking about, hold signs, chant, in front the Prince Frederick Courthouse, on the Courthouse grass, sidewalk, street, for 24 hrs straight beginning on a Tuesday at high noon? There is nothing government can do to stop it. And any law made as such, to try stop such an occurrence is and would be a violation of the Constitution and void on its face.

It's good that all these people in this Nation are protesting, "those that are peaceably assembling" for redress of grievances. It puts those in government on notice. It makes those in government feel uneasy, queasy, scared, hopefully enough to wake up and make the changes to right the ship back inline with the US Constitution. It also brings attention to other people that may not know, or may not have heard, of why such protests are happening. Rallying others to the cause. Educating others. Forming and creating new opinions and understandings of the failures of those in Government. Changing minds and thoughts.

But you, others, and .... hello Bann, are so conditioned by all the propaganda, (past and current), that you are in a comfortable place, distanced from the realities of why this Nation has become what it has. Either you believe in this Nation, accept the whole of US Constitution as written, or you don't. You cannot pick and choose which parts to ignore, or allow to be violated. We have had thousands of usurpations, (laws written), of the Constitution over the decades, because people like you, and others, willfully accept the argument from those in government that such a given law is for the benefit of the people. Chiseling away as it were. And when those, such as me, and many many others, rise and stand up and voice loudly to say, 'What you are proposing is a violation of the US Constitution'. We are then drowned out, criticized, named called, put down, marginalized. So now, over time, you and the rest, believe a "statute" has more authority the the Supreme Law of the Land, because you have conditioned yourself to believe so. What's the saying? Tell a lie long enough and pretty soon people will think it's the truth?

The US Constitution, our freedoms, rights, and liberties, are being attacked every damn day. By outsiders, and traitors from within. By power hungry Bolshevik minded type people. And you do nothing in an attempt to stop it. You excuse away obvious Constitutional violations under some pretense of authorized authority. It is not only just the governments that are wrong. It is you and others that are wrong as well that allow this type of behavior to continue. Giving your endorsement for them to do so.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Nice little screed @LightRoasted. But there is no way that what I have cited is a violation of the US Constitution as there is a SCOTUS decision that says that as long as these folk were not stopped from using the public location to demonstrate their cause there is no violation and that decision of precedence is the current controlling guidance on the matter per existing Constitutional practice. Like it or not it is what it is.

What you seem to still miss is that the public location is not theirs indefinitely as other citizens have an equal right to utilize that area too (be it a road, a park, the front of governmental buildings, whatever public place it is). To facilitate and protect the rights of all an accommodation was crafted by the organizers of the event and local authority setting time of event, location of event, and the duration of event. Once those conditions were over the right to continue their demonstration no longer was justified and their behavior, by failing to disperse and following the lawful orders of the sheriff, became a display of disturbing the peace and disorderly conduct.
 

Goldenhawk

Well-Known Member
There are wise ways to deal with a crowd, and Sheriff Cameron chose those ways: wait them out, stay chill, recognize that going "goon squad" on them would make things worse. There are harmful ways, and Sheriff Evans chose those ways: get the guys in riot gear advancing on a crowd, and certainly cause violence to erupt, all because of some clock ticking.

By the way, the organizers stated that the event was over and put away their gear and left the area. At that point, the permit became irrelevant. It's now just crowd control, and there's no real reason to control the crowd other than to "show them who's boss." As long as they're orderly and not doing damage to anything or hurting anyone, why get involved?
 

Bann

Doris Day meets Lady Gaga
PREMO Member
There are wise ways to deal with a crowd, and Sheriff Cameron chose those ways: wait them out, stay chill, recognize that going "goon squad" on them would make things worse. There are harmful ways, and Sheriff Evans chose those ways: get the guys in riot gear advancing on a crowd, and certainly cause violence to erupt, all because of some clock ticking.

:lmao:

Did you get out and enjoy this gorgeous day today at all?

You made your point, you disagree with the way Sheriff Evans upheld the law. :bubble: We get it!

Vote next time for change. :yay:
 

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
There are wise ways to deal with a crowd, and Sheriff Cameron chose those ways: wait them out, stay chill, recognize that going "goon squad" on them would make things worse. There are harmful ways, and Sheriff Evans chose those ways: get the guys in riot gear advancing on a crowd, and certainly cause violence to erupt, all because of some clock ticking.

By the way, the organizers stated that the event was over and put away their gear and left the area. At that point, the permit became irrelevant. It's now just crowd control, and there's no real reason to control the crowd other than to "show them who's boss." As long as they're orderly and not doing damage to anything or hurting anyone, why get involved?
I'm sure if a large group decided to sit down in the middle of Hollywood-Leonardtown Road, or decided to take their protest down to Leonardtown Square, we would have seen a different Sheriff Cameron.
 

Goldenhawk

Well-Known Member
:lmao:

Did you get out and enjoy this gorgeous day today at all?

You made your point, you disagree with the way Sheriff Evans upheld the law. :bubble: We get it!

Vote next time for change. :yay:
Actually, I did, thanks. I went to an outdoor reconciliation prayer gathering hosted at a local church in downtown Lexington Park, attended by both black and white people, and did my best to help repair relationships between the white and black communities here. Hope your day was productive too.

And I'm happy to be a St Mary's resident with Cameron and not Evans in charge of my local police force.
 
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