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How many people have died for freedom and in the name of freedom to achieve their perfect society?
ImnoMensa
New Member
Its hard to believe that so many people died so their government could run every phae of their lives. Why< right here in America we have 150 million Americans who are willing to give their rights away to advance the cause of radical environtmentalism, Free health care paid for by stealing from those who work and anti-war activists who believe the world can live in peace if only America would stop defending people who cannot defend themselves.
PsyOps
Pixelated
What the heck is this supposed to mean? Are you suggestion being free (a.k.a. devoid of government control and oppression) isn't a perfect way of life as compared to the alternative? Are you suggesting that dying for the cause of freedom is just as evil as the butchery that occurs under the likes of communism, fascism or totalitarianism?
Please clarify.
SamSpade
Well-Known Member
I'd die for two things - for my children, and to be free. The originator of New Hamphshire's motto, Live Free or Die, commented that death itself is not the worst of all evils.
Amazingly, it's not an unusual reaction - from Patrick Henry's "Give me Liberty or give me Death!" to the mottos of Greece, Bulgaria, Bolivia, they all say the same thing - they'd rather die to be free.
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but I'd say most of the human race is on board with this one - they'd die to be free, and they'd die to defend it.
A lot. Freedom is worth dying for; tyranny is not.
cwo_ghwebb
No Use for Donk Twits
Exactly! Being a slave to a government isn't much different than being a slave to an individual.
ylexot
Super Genius
I think of it a different way. Those who kill for freedom are killing the oppressors. Those who kill for socialism/communism/whatever are killing the oppressed.
Progressives ARE extremists. They go beyond being simply liberal and cross the line into Socialism.
Lennon was not Lenin
You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it's evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don't you know you can count me out
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We'd all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We're doing what we can
But when you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don't you know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you'll change the constitution
Well you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it's the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don't you know know it's gonna be alright
Alright Alright
pro-gres-ive :
1. favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters: a progressive mayor.
2. making progress toward better conditions; employing or advocating more enlightened or liberal ideas, new or experimental methods, etc.: a progressive community.
3. characterized by such progress, or by continuous improvement.
4. (initial capital letter) of or pertaining to any of the Progressive parties in politics.
5. going forward or onward; passing successively from one member of a series to the next; proceeding step by step.
6. noting or pertaining to a form of taxation in which the rate increases with certain increases in taxable income.
7. of or pertaining to progressive education: progressive schools.
8. Grammar. noting a verb aspect or other verb category that indicates action or state going on at a temporal point of reference.
9. Medicine/Medical. continuously increasing in extent or severity, as a disease.
–noun 10. a person who is progressive or who favors progress or reform, esp. in political matters.
11. (initial capital letter) a member of a Progressive party.
1. favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters: a progressive mayor.
2. making progress toward better conditions; employing or advocating more enlightened or liberal ideas, new or experimental methods, etc.: a progressive community.
3. characterized by such progress, or by continuous improvement.
4. (initial capital letter) of or pertaining to any of the Progressive parties in politics.
5. going forward or onward; passing successively from one member of a series to the next; proceeding step by step.
6. noting or pertaining to a form of taxation in which the rate increases with certain increases in taxable income.
7. of or pertaining to progressive education: progressive schools.
8. Grammar. noting a verb aspect or other verb category that indicates action or state going on at a temporal point of reference.
9. Medicine/Medical. continuously increasing in extent or severity, as a disease.
–noun 10. a person who is progressive or who favors progress or reform, esp. in political matters.
11. (initial capital letter) a member of a Progressive party.
ylexot
Super Genius
Those are some of the worst definitions I've ever read. According to that, people who are not "progressives" want to make things worse.
Show me one of those definitions that precludes them from being extremists.
cwo_ghwebb
No Use for Donk Twits
Since 'Liberal' now has a negative connotation, the term 'progressive' is now coined and in popular usage. Both words have different meanings than the original. Kinda like Swift Boat.
Unfortunately, 'progressive' ideas are very old, never worked, and never take into consideration the 'human' condition, but sound populist. Any idea that advocates going backwards in society is regressive IMHO, no matter what 'label' you want to put on it this week.
You can't get too stuck on the names these people give themselves. You can call your group anything you like, but that doesn't mean it accurately describes your agenda. I can start a lobbying group that promotes Stalinism and call myself "People for Freedom".
Ask yourself why a certain faction of liberals gave up that title and now call themselves "progressives".
Straight from dictionary.com. Be sure to tell them their sources are flawed.
It does not preclude them from being extremists, but it does not preclude that all people under such a wide definition are extremists.
I would label the likes of the Taliban and Khmer Rouge as extremists, but no one could call their ideals progressive, not by a long shot.
cwo_ghwebb
No Use for Donk Twits
Sounds like your definition of progressive is 'change for the better'. Correct me if I'm mistaken.
But who gets to determine what is 'for the better'? Socialists' idea of 'better' and my ideas of 'better' are about 180 degrees out.
But who gets to determine what is 'for the better'? Socialists' idea of 'better' and my ideas of 'better' are about 180 degrees out.
No?
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world
You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one