Puppy Training

[Bride2Be]

Looking for advice on training a puppy. Toy Rat Terrier, 10 wks old, need help with potty training and obdience...any suggestions! Thanks!

 

[TurboK9]

Looking for advice on training a puppy. Toy Rat Terrier, 10 wks old, need help with potty training and obedience...any suggestions! Thanks!

Real OB isn't going to happen at ten weeks... but you can do all sorts of littel simple exercises to get the dog to listen and pay attention as much as possible for a puppy...

Potty training, I'm a big fan of the old school newspaper method.... not a big fan of crating for potty training... but both can work. Biggest thing is to be observant and get the dog outside when he's gotta go and praise when successful. Newspaper method is simply confining to an area like the kitchen, where there is a door to the outside, and laying down paper all over the area. Every few days you remove a sheet of paper until there is only one left by the door. He'll go to that paper now when he has to go, at which point, you let him outside before he goes, and praise. Yeah, potty trained! Crating can work, but if the crate is too small the pup my decide to play in it. Ewww. That is bad. Some dogs learn to like it. Not common, but when it happens, it's pretty ewwww.

 

[Cowgirl]

Potty training, I'm a big fan of the old school newspaper method....

 

[TurboK9]

If done right (RIGHT) it is very effective. You have to understand WHY it works.

 

[onebdzee]

If done right (RIGHT) it is very effective. You have to understand WHY it works.

I have to agree....both my dogs were trained that way and both were pretty easy....I've never had either one of mine in a crate either

I think if put them in one now, they would think they were being punished for something

 

[Cowgirl]

If done right (RIGHT) it is very effective. You have to understand WHY it works.

I think it's very confusing for the dogs. "Don't pee in the house, but it's ok to pee in the house on this one paper."

I've never had issues with potty training. We crate when we aren't home or are doing something and can't watch the pup, and it's always worked wonderfully. The dogs love their crates.

 

[Nickel]

I think it's very confusing for the dogs.

That's because you don't understand why it works. Ya big dummy.

 

[kom526]

Crate trained both of my bruisers (RIP fellas) with good success. The GSD had a few incidents in the house, mostly human error, and our rescue picked up on the GSD and maybe had 5-6 incidents in 10 years.

 

[TurboK9]

I think it's very confusing for the dogs. "Don't pee in the house, but it's ok to pee in the house on this one paper."

I've never had issues with potty training. We crate when we aren't home or are doing something and can't watch the pup, and it's always worked wonderfully. The dogs love their crates.

Doesn't matter whether you think it's confusing or not, it matters what the dogs think!

It's simple conditioning. There is actually no 'thought' involved on the dog's part.

When you lay the papaer all over their area, and they go on it, and you praise them, and then after a few days make the area a little smaller, and praise them when the go on it, they start seeking out the paper because of the feel. The area gets smaller, and smaller, and the next thing the dog knows he's just going to the door, and if you are near, you let him out.

Pavlov's bell. He needs to poo or pee, he goes to the door. It's as easy as that.

Crating works in a similar manner, except you are confining the dog to a small space that it instinctively does not want to 'dirty', as it knows it's gonna be right there with him. What goes bad here is when doggy just can't hold it, poos, the crate it TOO small, or doggy gets a little wired, and smears poo everywhere then discovers it is fun to play in.

When I was at Florida K9 Services we used grooming kennels to correct that out of dogs for people. Had one little poodle mix that found great glee in smearing his crap everywhere. I mean everywhere. The moment he pooped he would roll in it and smear it and slide and spin and oh gawd it was even on the ceiling of the grooming kennel. Had to keep a big old bugeye on him and WHAM get his arse out the door. Took 3 weeks and he was pretty much . Very pleasant little fellow once you got past the stink.

Anyway, that simply gets transferred to 'go to the door, wait, go out'.

Dogs really are a lot simpler than people make them out to be, as 'smart' as they are. They are easily conditioned. You don't 'teach' a dog, you condition it through repetition and reward. If necessary, correction to introduce consequence.

If we could actually 'teach' them the way we teach people, they'd be building Hundais and working in Chinese sweatshops.

You confuse a dog by screwing up your timing, or by being conflicting in your expectations. Rule #1 is K.I.S.S.

 

[Cowgirl]

That's because you don't understand why it works. Ya big dummy.

When you lay the papaer all over their area, and they go on it, and you praise them, and then after a few days make the area a little smaller, and praise them when the go on it, they start seeking out the paper because of the feel. The area gets smaller, and smaller, and the next thing the dog knows he's just going to the door, and if you are near, you let him out.

Yeah. Or, the dog knows it gets praised for peeing or pooping on paper, and will then seek out papers in the house to potty on. Done reading that newspaper? DOn't lay it on the floor or Fido will pee on it because he's been praised to pee on paper!

IMO, it's best to teach dogs it's never ok to potty indoors. Can't get simpler than that.

Oh yeah, and Elmer will ring a bell to go outside. That's simple too. Bring them to the door, make them ring the bell every time, then they go out. Pretty soon they pick up on ringing the bell to go out.

 

[onebdzee]

Dogs really are a lot simpler than people make them out to be, as 'smart' as they are. They are easily conditioned. You don't 'teach' a dog, you condition it through repetition and reward. If necessary, correction to introduce consequence.

I can tell my bigger dog to go out and pee and she will....even if she's already gone, she will go again

 

[TurboK9]

Yeah. Or, the dog knows it gets praised for peeing or pooping on paper, and will then seek out papers in the house to potty on. Done reading that newspaper? DOn't lay it on the floor or Fido will pee on it because he's been praised to pee on paper!

IMO, it's best to teach dogs it's never ok to potty indoors. Can't get simpler than that.

Oh yeah, and Elmer will ring a bell to go outside. That's simple too. Bring them to the door, make them ring the bell every time, then they go out. Pretty soon they pick up on ringing the bell to go out.

See there you go thinking you are a dog again and reading into things....

You may think your way is better and that's OK as long as it works for you, but what you are saying is wrong. Again, conditioning. Two things to consider. At the point the pup is regularly going outside, only a couple weeks have gone by. Now, he's conditioning to grass and the outside environment. Unless you are one of those hoarder people with newspapers strewn about your home, your pup will stop seeking out the paper in favor of the lawn. You are actually reading into it, and predicting behavior that does not occur, which is pretty complex for a dog.

My dog will get me beer. And recycle if it's in a can. He also pees in the toilet and goes to the store to shop for me, but I do have to give him a list because his memory isn't that good. Seriously, I don't use a bell, my dogs "pee-pee" dance. Really! And I've never had a problem with any of the stuff you mentioned. Did have a problem with those poo-crate stinky little dogs that we had to retrain though. Crate training for potty is great, but not so much if you are not able to monitor the dog all the time... How do you condition to go outside if they are always pooing in the crate? Remember, we are talking pup here, not adult, and like babies... Hard for a pup to hold it 8-10 hours for those that don't have someone at home. The bell thing IS cool though.

 

[TurboK9]

I can tell my bigger dog to go out and pee and she will....even if she's already gone, she will go again

I HAVE to tell mine if we are walking, else they won't. "Potty", and they go,

 

[Cowgirl]

See there you go thinking you are a dog again and reading into things....

You may think your way is better and that's OK as long as it works for you, but what you are saying is wrong. Again, conditioning. Two things to consider. At the point the pup is regularly going outside, only a couple weeks have gone by. Now, he's conditioning to grass and the outside environment. Unless you are one of those hoarder people with newspapers strewn about your home, your pup will stop seeking out the paper in favor of the lawn. You are actually reading into it, and predicting behavior that does not occur, which is pretty complex for a dog.

My dog will get me beer. And recycle if it's in a can. He also pees in the toilet and goes to the store to shop for me, but I do have to give him a list because his memory isn't that good. Seriously, I don't use a bell, my dogs "pee-pee" dance. Really! And I've never had a problem with any of the stuff you mentioned. Did have a problem with those poo-crate stinky little dogs that we had to retrain though. Crate training for potty is great, but not so much if you are not able to monitor the dog all the time... How do you condition to go outside if they are always pooing in the crate? Remember, we are talking pup here, not adult, and like babies... Hard for a pup to hold it 8-10 hours for those that don't have someone at home. The bell thing IS cool though.

There you go thinking you know everything about dogs again!

It's simple really. Maybe you don't understand how crate training works. You put the dog in its crate when you're not home or not able to watch the dog. You don't want the dog to go in the crate, that's why you don't get a crate that's too big. Sure, there are accidents in the crate occasionally, but you don't praise the dog (like you said you praise the puppy for going on the paper). Ideally the pup would be let out often enough so it can hold it while in the crate.

I'm really not reading into it or predicting behavior. We all know consistency is the key.

And I really don't care to argue about it. You do what works for you, I'll do what works for me. Perfect solution.

 

[Chasey_Lane]

Having pee soaked paper laying around the house would be gross, and it would ruin things. And then to pick up the wet paper?

 

[wharf rat]

I think it's very confusing for the dogs. "Don't pee in the house, but it's ok to pee in the house on this one paper."

I've never had issues with potty training. We crate when we aren't home or are doing something and can't watch the pup, and it's always worked wonderfully. The dogs love their crates.[/QUOTE]


This is pretty much our routine as well.

 

[TurboK9]

There you go thinking you know everything about dogs again!

It's simple really. Maybe you don't understand how crate training works. You put the dog in its crate when you're not home or not able to watch the dog. You don't want the dog to go in the crate, that's why you don't get a crate that's too big. Sure, there are accidents in the crate occasionally, but you don't praise the dog (like you said you praise the puppy for going on the paper). Ideally the pup would be let out often enough so it can hold it while in the crate.

I'm really not reading into it or predicting behavior. We all know consistency is the key.

And I really don't care to argue about it. You do what works for you, I'll do what works for me. Perfect solution.

ALMOST everything. I haven't learned their spoken language yet, but we are working on cracking the code.

Oh I'm not arguing about it... I'm just wondering where you find puppies that can hold their bowel and bladder for 10 hours so they don't mess the crate. I'm speaking specifically of people who are working 5 days a week and don't have the luxury of running home at the lunch or whatever. Legitimate concern. Seems to me that's no less than 5 accidents a week waiting to happen.

I've crated for potty training with older dogs that were never housetrained (fosters, etc) and never had a prob. But pups are a little different (and I mean pups, not young dogs). Often, they just don't have the physical ability to hold it for that length of time.

 

[Cowgirl]

ALMOST everything. I haven't learned their spoken language yet, but we are working on cracking the code.

Oh I'm not arguing about it... I'm just wondering where you find puppies that can hold their bowel and bladder for 10 hours so they don't mess the crate. I'm speaking specifically of people who are working 5 days a week and don't have the luxury of running home at the lunch or whatever. Legitimate concern. Seems to me that's no less than 5 accidents a week waiting to happen.

I've crated for potty training with older dogs that were never housetrained (fosters, etc) and never had a prob. But pups are a little different (and I mean pups, not young dogs). Often, they just don't have the physical ability to hold it for that length of time.

That's why I said occasionally there are accidents. And this is one of the reasons why I'll never get a little dog, because they're notoriously hard to potty train. I've found that it doesn't take long for them to be able to hold it during a work day. And we don't commute, so they're not in the crate for anywhere near 10 hours.

 

[TurboK9]

That's why I said occasionally there are accidents. And this is one of the reasons why I'll never get a little dog, because they're notoriously hard to potty train. I've found that it doesn't take long for them to be able to hold it during a work day. And we don't commute, so they're not in the crate for anywhere near 10 hours.

That is exactly what I was referring too. Remember, my response was initially to a person with a Toy Rat Terrier.

 

[Cowgirl]

That is exactly what I was referring too. Remember, my response was initially to a person with a Toy Rat Terrier.

Well, in that case, I switch my response to "get a real dog."


Just kidding, Bride2Be. Sorta.


And Turbo, I was looking at the list of animals at Tri County, and it looks like there's a couple dobies there....a pup and an adult. You should go get them.