Rage Against the Machine discusses Social Security

[Kerad]

From dictionary.com:

patriotic
adj : inspired by love for your country

I would have to say that "American Idiot" and "Holiday" aren't particularly patriotic. I'm just not feeling the love.

Don't confuse love for country with blind loyalty to the current leadership. You can love your country and hate how it's currently being "led".

 

[Larry Gude]

No...

there is wisdom in a lot of politically motivated music

...there is not.

Rage are basically socialists and socialists are exceptionally stupid people.

Aerosmith: Eat the Rich

Classic idiocy. So, 5 minutes after the meal starts, all the food is gone and all you're left with is stupid poor people who can't help themselves or they wouldn't be poor.

System of a Down: Bring Your Own Bomb

"Why don't Presidents fight the war? Why did they always send the poor?"

Presidents run wars, they don't fight them. We send the poor because there are more of them.



No, not very many 'politically' inspired musicians have a clue as to why they can sit here in the Good 'ol US and spout socialist/communist dreck while folks in those countries that somehow survive those futile, horrid systems try to leave them and decry them and long for the freedom so many here take for absolute granted.

 

[vraiblonde]

i have talked to people that say its not possible to love the country but not support the president

Well, I can only draw on my own experience during the Willie Jeff Clinton years.

I wasn't particularly fond of him or his policies, as you might imagine. But I didn't spend a lot of time calling him a Nazi or a war criminal, even though he DID authorize military action in several countries that were, in my opinion, not worth the effort.

Nor did I call for his impeachment every time he, say, sent troops over to die in some #### hole like Somalia.

I was pissed that he didn't seem interested in stemming the tide of terrorism. But I notice Green Day didn't feel that US troops and civilians being blown up by suicide bombers was worthy of a song or two. And Barbra Streisand was cuddled up with him in the Lincoln bedroom, so I don't think she was particularly concerned about that, either.

And I would say "God help the celebrity who disparaged him on foreign soil" but no celebrities did that, even when Clinton was blowing holes in the streets of Baghdad.

If I were a space alien with no dog in the fight and just popped down to make observations, I would say that the Left-Wing in this country are a bunch of traitorous partisans who ##### their faces off over Republicans, but suction themselves to the asses of Democrats who do the exact same thing. That they hate their country, but only when a Republican is in power. They seem to think everything is hunky dory when there's a Democrat president, regardless of WHAT is going down.

So, no, I don't think you can be a patriot if you don't support your leadership, especially in time of war. And many Democratic Senators and Representatives would have agreed with me back in 1997 and 1998 - you know, while our "troops were in harm's way"?

 

[vraiblonde]

Every "Titanic" has it's Captain Smith...and the country knows who's been steering this ship the last few years.

Not sure why you reference the Titanic, since the country is doing quite well. Bush is doing just fine - better than I expected, actually - and 15 million Iraqis who voted last month would agree with me.

So there

 

[Spoiled]

Well, I can only draw on my own experience during the Willie Jeff Clinton years.

I wasn't particularly fond of him or his policies, as you might imagine.
So, no, I don't think you can be a patriot if you don't support your leadership, especially in time of war. And many Democratic Senators and Representatives would have agreed with me back in 1997 and 1998 - you know, while our "troops were in harm's way"?

so you were not a patriot under clinton or because you didnt vocalize your dismay with the administration it was different? (i am really trying to understand here...)

 

[vraiblonde]

so you were not a patriot under clinton or because you didnt vocalize your dismay with the administration it was different? (i am really trying to understand here...)

I definitely vocalized my dismay - there are posts on here to prove it, not to mention a few Fire Away columns as well. But I stopped short of the malignant hysteria that's considered "political discourse" these days. As did most Republicans.

"Support" does not mean "agree with wholeheartedly". It means you don't trash your President on foreign soil, nor do you call him Hitler. You don't say you're embarrassed to be an American. And you definitely don't pretend that the US is worse than some dictatorship where their leader is raping people and chopping their body parts off.

Just because they don't support Bush and his policies - big deal. But the level of vitriol and paranoia is just way over the top.

 

[MMDad]

..."Why don't Presidents fight the war? Why did they always send the poor?"

Presidents run wars, they don't fight them. We send the poor because there are more of them.

I have to disagree, but for once it isn't to

Recent presidents who fought wars: Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Bush I.

Recent presidents who volunteered but didn't have to fight: Bush II, Carter

Recent candidates who fought: Kerry, McCain.

The only presidents who didn't fight or volunteer since FDR (I think we can excuse him since he was a paraplegic) were Reagan and Clinton.

When I went to war, the people I served with came from every imaginable background. We had every level of income, all classes, and most races. We even had known fags, but we didn't care since they kept it private.

There was a big drive about a year ago emphasizing this whole issue from a racial point of view. As soon as it was discovered that the dead from Iraq were dispraportionally white middle class, the outrage suddenly disappeared.

Poor people don't volunteer for squat. That's why they are poor.

 

[ylexot]

I feel I should clarify something since Larry brought up Rage again. The lyrics I quoted have absolutely nothing to do with how I applied them. The song has something to do with a guy with a life sentence (or on death row) talking about suicide.

In general, I'd say music is very much related to emotion. I'd say it rarely makes valid political points, but I do gather a great deal of wisdom from music in regards to humanity in general. Of course, the wisdom is heavily dependent on the artist. One of my favorites is Fishbone. Yes, they are left-wing, but by listening to them, it gives me a different perspective. I feel what they feel.

Here's a nice Fishbone song for you all:

Those Days Are Gone
When you're alone, can't find
Your way out of the maze

Life is ablaze and you're
Right there in the flames

Is this pain?
Are we sane?

And who has established these claims?
While we all try to refrain

I had a dream once there was a wall inside my head
You all had put it there

We lived a life once we felt together as one

And now those days are gone

We fled that place there was a beast kept there

He was mighty and strong and his name was jealousy

We all laughed we felt we would rise above with our unity, our unity

But later on that day he came back to say

That I have a friend and his name is envy

We toppled many lives, we're like a mighty hurricane

We bring destruction, and we cause descension

 

[MMDad]

Green Day doesn't blast America, the country...

Isn't it something like "I don't want to be an American Idiot"?

That is a blast on America, but I served and fought in order to protect their right to say that. I love their music, and I can ignore the lyrics when they get stupid. They grew up in an extreme entitlement society, and struck it rich young. I don't blame them for not understanding the real world.

I haven't bought a Greenday album since I first heard that song. That doesn't make me prejudiced, intolerant, or stupid. It means I am an educated consumer, which is the American way.

 

[vraiblonde]

Recent presidents who fought wars: Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Bush I.

Recent presidents who volunteered but didn't have to fight: Bush II, Carter

Recent candidates who fought: Kerry, McCain.

The only presidents who didn't fight or volunteer since FDR (I think we can excuse him since he was a paraplegic) were Reagan and Clinton.

That's an excellent point.

One more comment about patriotism, then I'm done (maybe):

If these celebritards are just anti-Bush but not anit-American, why do they call their songs "American Idiot" "American Life", etc?

 

[ylexot]

Here's another good one from the Foo Fighters:

In Your Honor

Can you hear me
Hear me screamin'
Breaking in the muted sky
This thunder heart
Like bombs beating
Echoing a thousand miles

Mine is yours and yours is mine
There is no divide
In your honor
I would die tonight

Mine is yours and yours is mine
I will sacrifice
In your honor
I would die tonight
For you to feel alive

Can you feel me
Feel me breathing
One last breath before I close my eyes
This offering
For receiving
Deliver me into the other side

Mine is yours and yours is mine
There is no divide
In your honor
I would die tonight

Mine is yours and yours is mine
I will sacrifice
In your honor
I would die tonight
For you to feel alive

For you to feel alive
For you to feel alive
For you to feel alive
AHH

 

[Larry Gude]

Not one of those people...

I have to disagree, but for once it isn't to

Recent presidents who fought wars: Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Bush I.

Recent presidents who volunteered but didn't have to fight: Bush II, Carter

Recent candidates who fought: Kerry, McCain.

The only presidents who didn't fight or volunteer since FDR (I think we can excuse him since he was a paraplegic) were Reagan and Clinton.

When I went to war, the people I served with came from every imaginable background. We had every level of income, all classes, and most races. We even had known fags, but we didn't care since they kept it private.

There was a big drive about a year ago emphasizing this whole issue from a racial point of view. As soon as it was discovered that the dead from Iraq were dispraportionally white middle class, the outrage suddenly disappeared.

Poor people don't volunteer for squat. That's why they are poor.

...was President when they fought. That, I think, is Systems point.

 

[Larry Gude]

Music is...

I'd say music is very much related to emotion. I'd say it rarely makes valid political points, but I do gather a great deal of wisdom from music in regards to humanity in general.

...is art.

There's good art, bad art, worthless art, piss in a jar art. The thing is, it is ART and the beauty is it belongs to the individual as they take it.

Politics is about control, power, regardless of what an individual thinks it is or should be.

 

[MMDad]

...was President when they fought. That, I think, is Systems point.

Then they are stupid and haven't read the Constitution. I don't believe that the military is currently accepting applicants over 35, which is the constitutional requirement for President. Maybe they want to waive the constitution since we are at war?

Maybe they have a point. It's always much better to have a president who is in uniform. Hitler, Mousselini, Castro, Qadaffi, and Sadam have proven that, haven't they?

 

[Larry Gude]

I read it as the typical...

Then they are stupid and haven't read the Constitution. I don't believe that the military is currently accepting applicants over 35, which is the constitutional requirement for President. Maybe they want to waive the constitution since we are at war?

Maybe they have a point. It's always much better to have a president who is in uniform. Hitler, Mousselini, Castro, Qadaffi, and Sadam have proven that, haven't they?

...'Well, if you rich white guys want a war, you should go fight it!"

One thing I will say is that it is a CRIME that we are a nation of lawyers and not very damn many members of congress have a son or daughter in uniform any more.

 

[MMDad]

...'Well, if you rich white guys want a war, you should go fight it!"

One thing I will say is that it is a CRIME that we are a nation of lawyers and not very damn many members of congress have a son or daughter in uniform any more.

The children of rich white guys are fighting the war.

I refuse to defend congress. There is no reason to respect them any more, even if every one of them had a child in uniform. Their corruption is second only to the UN.

 

[Spoiled]

That's an excellent point.

One more comment about patriotism, then I'm done (maybe):

If these celebritards are just anti-Bush but not anit-American, why do they call their songs "American Idiot" "American Life", etc?

ok, you are talking about the celebrities, for some reason i thought you were talking about all liberals, im clear now

 

[vraiblonde]

ok, you are talking about the celebrities, for some reason i thought you were talking about all liberals, im clear now

Not all liberals, but a vocal minority of them are treasonous buttheads as well, like that Cindy Sheehan person. We obviously will hear more from celebrities because nobody wants to have Spoiled and Kerad on their talk shows. Therefore they've become the spokespeople for liberals, and they make you all look like fascist loose screws. Just like Pat Robertson makes all fundie Christians look like nutballs. Jesse Jackson makes blacks look like idiots.

It's just the way it is.

 

[Spoiled]

Not all liberals, but a vocal minority of them are treasonous buttheads as well, like that Cindy Sheehan person. We obviously will hear more from celebrities because nobody wants to have Spoiled and Kerad on their talk shows. Therefore they've become the spokespeople for liberals, and they make you all look like fascist loose screws. Just like Pat Robertson makes all fundie Christians look like nutballs. Jesse Jackson makes blacks look like idiots.

It's just the way it is.

People want me on their talk shows, i just dont brag about it... and i have no time to fit them into my busy schedule

 

[Kerad]

Isn't it something like "I don't want to be an American Idiot"?

That is a blast on America, but I served and fought in order to protect their right to say that. I love their music, and I can ignore the lyrics when they get stupid. They grew up in an extreme entitlement society, and struck it rich young. I don't blame them for not understanding the real world.

I haven't bought a Greenday album since I first heard that song. That doesn't make me prejudiced, intolerant, or stupid. It means I am an educated consumer, which is the American way.

Thanks for your service. I also served and fought as a member of our armed forces, but I don't throw it out there pretending to be holier than thou...or them.