Rapture Discussion

[Zguy28]

Recall that Paul had been a zealous Orthodox Pharisee (a Pharisee of Pharisees) and he led persecutions against other Jewish people who placed their faith in Jesus being their Messiah. Paul was present at the stoning of Stephen. He believed he was doing the right thing for God until his encounter with the risen Lord on the way to Damascus with plans to carry out more persecutions.

The point is that, yes, God had selected various individuals to carry out his purpose of testing His people. Yes, God hardened Pharoah's heart for the intended purpose, yes, Jesus chose Judas, also for the intended purpose. Do they have a chance at salvation? I'd say they don't.

God had mercy on Paul and used him for His specific purpose. Through Paul many inspiring and insightful teachings of Christ and our relationship with Christ were written. Upon conversion, Paul understood that he was specifically pre-destined, as were the other Apostles, to carry out the message of Salvation through Grace to the world and to make disciples of men.

Yes, the Bible also says that upon hearing God's Word, some will respond and some people's hearts will be hardened but that is because they rejected God's Grace, they allowed themselves to be deceived and remained blinded by Satan (the god of this world) because they loved darkness rather than light. (Recall the Parable of the Sower and the seed)

However, if you are saying that Paul stipulates that from among all the people in this world God has already pre-ordained whom He is going to give salvation to and whom he is not going to give salvation to, then I disagree with your understanding of God's Grace and that perhaps you may be misunderstanding what Paul was referring to.

God's Grace is open to all, lest the Atheists and scoffers in this forum have no chance of being saved and your effort to share the Good News of Salvation through Jesus Christ to them is in vain.

OK, I get where you are coming from now, that some folks are specifically and irresistibly pre-destined by God while everyone else is not. Am I expressing that correctly?

I do disagree though, but I am staunchly Calvinist so...

 

[2ndAmendment]

..

Regarding Calvinism: Calvin taught the theology of pre-ordained "election" which would then negate free-will. I believe every person is given free-will to choose whether to believe in Christ or whether to reject God's Plan of Salvation through Him and believe they can attain it some other way apart from Jesus. That decision is a personal one that every person will need to make.

If Calvinist theology were true then God is an unjust God and only offers Salvation to those who He was going to save anyway. As you know the following well-known verses of scripture negate Calvin's doctrine of "pre-ordained election"

...

Re: Once Saved Always Saved

Once Saved: Who would want to be "unsaved" ? IMO: When a person is genuinely born again, as Jesus said one must be, the promise is that he/she becomes a child of God and are sealed unto the day of redemption: One rejoices in growing and maturing in his/her spiritual fellowship with Christ. Can a Christian slip up and backslide? You bet - but that causes a break in fellowship with God that must be quickly restored through seeking forgiveness and reconciliation and getting back on track - it does not cause the loss of Salvation. When a person is saved, his/her Salvation is sealed unto the Day of Redemption:


...

We were discussing this very topic about Calvin Sunday. According to actual preaching of Calvin, he did not teach pre-ordained "election." It is attributed to him and Calvinists teach that doctrine but it was not from Calvin himself as I understand it.

As far as once saved always saved, I think that is feel good doctrine. I was a Baptist at one time. That is one of the Baptist doctrines that led me to no longer be a Baptist. That doctrine flies in the face of:

Revelation 3:5 (New American Standard Bible)

5'He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

If one's name is in the Book of Life, then they are saved. If their name is removed from the Book of Life, then they are no longer saved.

 

[Zguy28]

We were discussing this very topic about Calvin Sunday. According to actual preaching of Calvin, he did not teach pre-ordained "election." It is attributed to him and Calvinists teach that doctrine but it was not from Calvin himself as I understand it.

As far as once saved always saved, I think that is feel good doctrine. I was a Baptist at one time. That is one of the Baptist doctrines that led me to no longer be a Baptist. That doctrine flies in the face of:
If one's name is in the Book of Life, then they are saved. If their name is removed from the Book of Life, then they are no longer saved.

So, you believe that someone can pass from Death to Life and back to Death?

What happens to the Seal of the Holy Spirit? Does it abandon the person or were they never sealed?

Does our own desire for that which is sinful have the power to snatch us out of Christ's hand or were we never there?

 

[migtig]

Okay I have a serious rapture question

I'm not the brightest lightbulb, but I have some issues with what I hear / read about the rapture. What's correct, the bible or a man-made theory?

The "theory" is that on the day of the rapture all these good folks are going to be swept up into Heaven and everybody else will remain on earth to suffer some really bad stuff.

I've read that this theory was actually proposed some 1,700 years after the fact by the Mr & Mr. Mather, and wasn't a believed/practiced theory until the mid to late 1700's.

However, I've looked the whole bible over and I just don't see that. What I see is judgment, death and carnage by birds.

LUKE 33-37
"I say to you, in that night there will be two men sleeping in one bed, and one will be taken away and the other let go. Two women will be crushing grain together; one will be taken away and the other let go. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they, answering him, said, 'Where, Lord?' And he said to them, 'Where the body is, there the vultures come together'."

EZEKIAL 39:17-18
"And you, son of man, this is what the Lord has said: Say to the birds of every sort and to all the beasts of the field, Get together and come; come together on every side to the offering which I am putting to death for you, a great offering on the mountains of Israel, so that you may have flesh for your food and blood for your drink.The flesh of the men of war will be your food, and your drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of sheep and lambs, of he-goats, of oxen, all of them fat beasts of Bashan."

Revelation 19:17-18
"And I saw an angel taking his place in the sun; and he was crying with a loud voice, saying to all the birds in flight in the heavens, Come together to the great feast of God; So that you may take for your food the flesh of kings, and of captains, and of strong men, and of horses and of those who are seated on them, and the flesh of all men, free and unfree, small and great."

 

[foodcritic]

LOL

OK -but the initial point at the beginning of the post was that IF we see "A" start up the One World Government/One World Religion system with global persecutions, then, according to Revelation 13, we would all know that the war of Armageddon is up and coming and Jesus' return will take place in 3 1/2 years from that point.

Revelation 13:
3: And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4: And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5: And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.6: And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7: And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8: And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9: If any man have an ear, let him hear.

The one world government is interesting however, I think it's safer to stick to the things that Jesus/Paul and John indicated are the signs.

 

[2ndAmendment]

So, you believe that someone can pass from Death to Life and back to Death?

What happens to the Seal of the Holy Spirit? Does it abandon the person or were they never sealed?

Does our own desire for that which is sinful have the power to snatch us out of Christ's hand or were we never there?

You are a strict Calvinist. I am not. Enough said. We will not agree and no amount of posting will change that.

 

[Zguy28]

The one world government is interesting however, I think it's safer to stick to the things that Jesus/Paul and John indicated are the signs.

That's just it, when you look at how Jesus was teaching it in Matt 24, he's saying that all of these signs are things that happen pretty much throughout the church age. So He can come anytime. That's why He followed it with His teaching on being vigilant and prepared for His coming.

 

[Zguy28]

You are a strict Calvinist. I am not. Enough said. We will not agree and no amount of posting will change that.

If you are ever interested in answering those questions PM me.

 

[Zguy28]

The one world government is interesting however, I think it's safer to stick to the things that Jesus/Paul and John indicated are the signs.

List the signs you refer to so we can discuss in context.

 

[Starman3000m]

OK, I get where you are coming from now, that some folks are specifically and irresistibly pre-destined by God while everyone else is not. Am I expressing that correctly?

I do disagree though, but I am staunchly Calvinist so...

Yes, that's what I am getting at. In particular, when Christ hand-picked and appointed specific people (Apostles) to go forth and spread the Gospel of Salvation to Jews and Gentiles (Paul sent mostly to Gentiles) He hand-picked Judas to do the thing he was meant to do in betraying Him.

Just as God handpicked Noah & Family to survive the Flood; and picked Pharoah to persecute The Children of God, picked the Prophets to prophesy against Israel's deeds of turning away from God, etc.

The rest of us are bystanders in this world and will either hear the Word and receive it or hear the Word and reject it. That is the free-will by which God knows who truly loves Him and is thankful for His Mercy and Grace and who truly does not love Him and rejects His Love, Mercy and Grace that He offered to them - not willing that any should perish but rather that they come to repentance.

A person's eternal destiny will be by his/her choice. Otherwise if God made people to be saved and love Him out of His ordination then they are only loving Him not because they sincerely wanted to but because He made them do it.

 

[Starman3000m]

As far as once saved always saved, I think that is feel good doctrine. I was a Baptist at one time. That is one of the Baptist doctrines that led me to no longer be a Baptist. That doctrine flies in the face of: If one's name is in the Book of Life, then they are saved. If their name is removed from the Book of Life, then they are no longer saved.

Glad to see this brought up because I have thought upon this exact situation in regard to the Book of Life. Here's my understanding of it:

God is a Fair and Just God:All people who will ever have been born into this world are written into the Lamb's Book of Life from the time they were born. As they mature to accountability and hear the Gospel Message they will be given the choice to make whether to accept Christ or reject His Plan of Salvation.

When a person knowingly makes the decision to out and out reject God's Plan of Salvation and sides with Satan's deception (they loved darkness rather than light) then that is when their names is blotted out of the Book of Life.

IOW: The names had to be in that Book to begin with before the name can be blotted out.

There is a parable of the Marriage Feast where the guest list is made up and many invited. But, then some of the guests make up excuses as to why they cannot come to the marriage feast. So, guess, what, they miss out because they in essence refused the invitation.

Another example: Your name is automatically placed on a guest list to attend a Gala Dinner such as has never been done in honor of a very important person. But, you have to RSVP. You call in and confirm that you will be there and then you will be assured of having a table at the dinner. The other choice is that you either don't respond at all or you call in and say you ain't gonna maket it. So your name gets crossed off (blotted out) from the guest list because you chose not to attend - something else was more important instead.

 

[foodcritic]

List the signs you refer to so we can discuss in context.

There are the whole list of things from MT 24. Just briefly

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. (Great Trib 7 years long) 10 At that time many will turn away (apostasy) from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. (This referring to the rapture that will take place just before the wrath of God is sent)

Continuing on....some things to suggest that these have not been occurring through out the age...but will take place in the future.

MT 24:26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

Once the signs start for a period of time (lets say 3.5 years) the word IMMEDIATELY is used. This does not leave open 2000 years IMO. So I believe that the Temple rebuild is essential. We agreed that the preterist view was not accurate because all of the the events did not take place as described at that time. So if we believe that, then its reasonable to assume that the temple abomination/rebuilding is also a future event. All these things (and others) are necessary to take place prior to his return.

Lets say that Jesus was speaking to the Jews and so it was not applicable to us. What about Paul the apostle to the gentiles?

2 Thes:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him (rapture), we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Paul is speaking to the church. He seems adamant that the church thinks (since it's his second letter on the same topic) this is being taught. Paul's emphasis on deception and that the day will not come UNTIL the man of lawlessness is revealed. Does this not reiterate what Jesus taught? The setting up in the temple of the abomination. You can also read in to the "IMMEDIATE" word again from Jesus here. This will take place and then THIS will take place.
reading on in

2 Thes:5 Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. (this is ref to the rapture again)9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

These verses and time line of the GT also correspond very nicely with Daniels vision.

Daniel 7:23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.

(3.5 years)

Daniel 8:13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the LORD’s people?”

14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”

2300 is thought to translate to a total of evenings and mornings so divide it in half to 1150 days or just about 3.5 years.

Daniel 9: 25 “Know and understand this: From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[f] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[g] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.

this is 70 AD. The math can be calculated in the 7s above
So with the temple destroyed here why does Daniel go on to describe another temple and it's destruction?

The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’ he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[j] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[k]”

The 7 year tribulation and the Antichrist setting himself up in it halfway just as Jesus, Mt, Paul and John say.


To me this all make perfect sense. The events MUST take place prior to Jesus return.

 

[Starman3000m]

So I believe that the Temple rebuild is essential.

This Jewish organization is actively working toward that now.

The G d and people of Israel, together with the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement, declare today to US President Barack Hussein Obama, to the European Union, to the United Nations and to the Arab and Muslim enemies of Israel who conspire together to take Jerusalem and the Land of Israel away from the people of G d: "You have no right in Jerusalem and the Holy Land of Israel. You have no chance and no way to again take Jerusalem from the G d and people of Israel or to stop her rebuilding and her glorification in honor of our Great G d — Jerusalem, the Holy Temple Mount of G d, and the Land of Israel will never fall again! Together with our Almighty G d we shall never allow it to happen!"
Jerusalem will become the focus and even the capital of the whole earth only when all the nations will recognize Jerusalem as the eternal capital of the G d and people of Israel. Then will come a real godly peace to the entire world and the exciting end-time vision of Isaiah will become a reality in our generation. Israel was chosen by G d and He gave her the Holy Land of Israel in order to be "a holy nation, a kingdom of priests and a light to the nations?" (Exodus 19:6) and to build Jerusalem and the Holy Temple to be the holy dwelling place of G d so that "many people shall go and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the L rd, to the house of the G d of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths" (Isaiah 2:3).

The Holy Temple Mount, Jerusalem and Israel will never fall again!

 

[Zguy28]

Have you guys ever read the Markan version of the Olivet Discourse in Mark 13?

Mark 13:32-37 ESV
32 "But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
33 Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come.
34 It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to stay awake.
35 Therefore stay awake--for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning--
36 lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
37 And what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake."

Be prepared for His coming. It will be suddenly and without warning.

I wonder too, what you guys make of Jesus' response to the scribes and Pharisee's in Matthew 12?

Matthew 12:38-40 ESV
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered him, saying, "Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you."
39 But he answered them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Might we misunderstand what Jesus means by "Stay awake!"?

"If you spend all your time fixing strings, you'll never play jazz." - Don Thomas

 

[onel0126]

Many spend much time looking for signs in the heavens and in the headlines. This is especially true of premillennialists, who anxiously await the tribulation because it will inaugurate the rapture and millennium.

A more balanced perspective is given by Peter, who writes, "But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace" (2 Pet. 3:8–14).

 

[Zguy28]

Many spend much time looking for signs in the heavens and in the headlines. This is especially true of premillennialists, who anxiously await the tribulation because it will inaugurate the rapture and millennium.

A more balanced perspective is given by Peter, who writes, "But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace" (2 Pet. 3:8–14).

I actually agree and am a premillennialist to boot (not Dispensational).

 

[Starman3000m]

Many spend much time looking for signs in the heavens and in the headlines. This is especially true of premillennialists, who anxiously await the tribulation because it will inaugurate the rapture and millennium.

A more balanced perspective is given by Peter, who writes, "But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slow about his promise as some count slowness, but is forbearing toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance. . . . Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of persons ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be kindled and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire! But according to his promise we wait for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. Therefore, beloved, since you wait for these, be zealous to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace" (2 Pet. 3:8–14).

Agreed! And even more reason to actively share the Good News of Salvation through Christ to those who do not have that Hope. Prayerfully seeking to see our friends and loved ones (even our enemies) come to the Forgiveness and Saving Grace that is offered to all through the atoning Blood of Christ.

 

[migtig]

Revelation 6:7-8
"When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. "

Bats in Arizona -[www.azcentral.com]

Bats in New Hampshire -[www.wildlife.state.nh.us]

Fish in Maryland -[www.wbaltv.com]

Fist in Florida -[www.wftv.com]

Fish in Texas -[www.ksat.com]

Fish in Indiana -[www.wndu.com]

100 tons (million) of fish in Brazil -[www.parana-online.com.br]

Fish in New Zealand -[www.nzherald.co.nz]

Fish in Canada -[www.torontosun.com]

Fish in Austrailia -http://goo.gl/Nd1Kc

Hundreds of thousands of crabs/fish in Italy -[corrierefiorentino.corriere.it]

150 tons (millions) of fish in Viet Nam -[business.asiaone.com]

Fish in Phillipines -http://goo.gl/olReA

Fish in Haiti -[www.france24.com]

Manatees in Florida -[www.bymnews.com]

Whales in Florida -[www.orlandosentinel.com]

Starfish/jellyfish in South Carolina -[www.abcnews4.com]

Tropical whale in New Zealand -[www.northernadvocate.co.nz]

 

[onel0126]

Revelation 6:7-8
"When the Lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, “Come!” I looked, and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Death, and Hades was following close behind him. They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by the wild beasts of the earth. "

Bats in Arizona -[www.azcentral.com]

Bats in New Hampshire -[www.wildlife.state.nh.us]

Fish in Maryland -[www.wbaltv.com]

Fist in Florida -[www.wftv.com]

Fish in Texas -[www.ksat.com]

Fish in Indiana -[www.wndu.com]

100 tons (million) of fish in Brazil -[www.parana-online.com.br]

Fish in New Zealand -[www.nzherald.co.nz]

Fish in Canada -[www.torontosun.com]

Fish in Austrailia -http://goo.gl/Nd1Kc

Hundreds of thousands of crabs/fish in Italy -[corrierefiorentino.corriere.it]

150 tons (millions) of fish in Viet Nam -[business.asiaone.com]

Fish in Phillipines -http://goo.gl/olReA

Fish in Haiti -[www.france24.com]

Manatees in Florida -[www.bymnews.com]

Whales in Florida -[www.orlandosentinel.com]

Starfish/jellyfish in South Carolina -[www.abcnews4.com]

Tropical whale in New Zealand -[www.northernadvocate.co.nz]

Can't believe it took this long in the thread to arrive at this......

 

[Nonno]

Commercial fishing is going down the tubes.....