Recommendations for a brake shop

[Ricky Racer]

I follow whatever it says in the manual. But in the future I'll keep in mind the bleeding valve on the caliper whenever (if ever) I'm doing work on another ABS equipped car.

The last ABS car I did brake work on was the Audi, and I had a Bentley manual and it never called for that procedure.

Did you ever think that just maybe, they want you do it yourselfers to screw up parts?

Sold !.. One ABS unit to the guy that didn't want to pay us to do his brakes.

 

[itsbob]

What, you're not smart enough to work on the GOOD cars??

 

[itsbob]

I can see your reading comprehension isn't very good.
I did not call you an idiot, I simply stated that Clymers manuals are written by idiots for idiots.
Read this very slow and I will prove to you that they are idiots.
First we apply common sense.
Now we know that brake fluid becomes contaminated over time by moisture and wear on seals...Correct ?
Now we also know that the brake caliber is the lowest point on the brake system.
We also know that water and moisture is heaver than oil and brake fluid.

So between the gravity and the fact that the master cylinder pushes the fluid to the caliber, I will let you guess where the contaminate in your brake fluid gather.

Common sense for $500 Bob.
Thats right!.. Behind the piston in your brake caliber.

So please explain why anyone would want to push this trash back up through the system when we can open the bleeder valve ?

BTW: I am an ASE and GM certified mechanic and Cymers manuals to Mechanics are like Bob Villa manuals to a Carpenter.

Actually if you bleed your brakes yearly like you are supposed to, when it comes time to change out pads, everything you mentioned is moot. Your brake fluid shouldn't be filled with dirt and sludge, and the water condensing in a closed system should be almost non-exsistent, unless you already have a fault somewhere in your system that is allowing dirt, sludge and water in.. all that should be in your system after 12 months is year old brake fluid..

 

[willie]

I can see your reading comprehension isn't very good.
I did not call you an idiot, I simply stated that Clymers manuals are written by idiots for idiots.
Read this very slow and I will prove to you that they are idiots.
First we apply common sense.
Now we know that brake fluid becomes contaminated over time by moisture and wear on seals...Correct ?
Now we also know that the brake caliber is the lowest point on the brake system.
We also know that water and moisture is heaver than oil and brake fluid.

So between the gravity and the fact that the master cylinder pushes the fluid to the caliber, I will let you guess where the contaminate in your brake fluid gather.

Common sense for $500 Bob.
Thats right behind the piston in your brake caliber.

So please explain why anyone would want to push this trash back up through the system when we can open the bleeder valve ?

BTW: I am an ASE and GM certified mechanic and Cymers manuals to Mechanics are like Bob Villa manuals to a Carpenter.

Flushing the system is a normal maintenance procedure and not necessarily needed at a pad change. Your post has nothing to do with what you originally said about ABS.

You said "With an ABS car, you CAN'T force the fluid back". That is a false statement concerning Ford, GM or Toyota. I cannot speak about any other manufacturer.

 

[Ricky Racer]

What, you're not smart enough to work on the GOOD cars??

Think about what you just said.
The object of working is to make money. So with this in mind lets do math.
Good cars don't need to be fixed = no work = no money
Bad cars need to be fixed = work = $money$

So tell me Bob if your a mechanic which ones do you want to be working on ?

 

[Ricky Racer]

Flushing the system is a normal maintenance procedure and not necessarily needed at a pad change. Your post has nothing to do with what you originally said about ABS.

You said "With an ABS car, you CAN'T force the fluid back". That is a false statement concerning Ford, GM or Toyota. I cannot speak about any other manufacturer.

On some cars you can't force it back through.Try it with a Hummer.
So let me clarify that for you..
YOU SHOULD NEVER.

 

[Ricky Racer]

Actually if you bleed your brakes yearly like you are supposed to, when it comes time to change out pads, everything you mentioned is moot. Your brake fluid shouldn't be filled with dirt and sludge, and the water condensing in a closed system should be almost non-exsistent, unless you already have a fault somewhere in your system that is allowing dirt, sludge and water in.. all that should be in your system after 12 months is year old brake fluid..

Is that right Bob... Have you ever rebuilt a brake caliber ?
Didn't think so.. because if you have you would have seen the sludge that builds up inside one behind the piston.
And keeping your fluid changed helps but it still lies in the bottom because your bleeder is on top of the caliber.
Remember water sinks

 

[itsbob]

Is that right Bob... Have you ever rebuilt a brake caliber ?
Didn't think so.. because if you have you would have seen the sludge that builds up inside one behind the piston.
And keeping your fluid changed helps but it still lies in the bottom because your bleeder is on top of the caliber.
Remember water sinks

Actually not on a car.. 151 model jeeps, M35 2.5 ton trucks..

but like Motor Oil.. if you change it like you are supposed to, NO sludge.. ever see a sludged up engine after years of abuse?? How about the same engine that has been maintained properly with the same amount of miles?

What caliber brakes do chevy's have??

I think mine are .44 magnums..

 

[itsbob]

On some cars you can't force it back through.Try it with a Hummer.
So let me clarify that for you..
YOU SHOULD NEVER.

I've tried to force it on a hummer..




















but she gagged..

 

[Ricky Racer]

I've tried to force it on a hummer..
but she gagged..

 

[dustin]

Did you ever think that just maybe, they want you do it yourselfers to screw up parts?

Sold !.. One ABS unit to the guy that didn't want to pay us to do his brakes.

I suppose. :shrug:

Not like I care anymore. I'm not buying another Audi or VW anytime soon (at least one with ABS) so I couldnt give a flyin flippity do da.

 

[itsbob]

I suppose. :shrug:

Not like I care anymore. I'm not buying another Audi or VW anytime soon (at least one with ABS) so I couldnt give a flyin flippity do da.

You don't vant to Unpimp der auto??

 

[dustin]

You don't vant to Unpimp der auto??

Only if I win the lotto.

 

[Ricky Racer]

Actually not on a car.. 151 model jeeps, M35 2.5 ton trucks..

but like Motor Oil.. if you change it like you are supposed to, NO sludge.. ever see a sludged up engine after years of abuse?? How about the same engine that has been maintained properly with the same amount of miles?

What caliber brakes do chevy's have??

I think mine are .44 magnums..

Thank you for your correction.

You still don't get it..Brake fluid absorbs moister and moister cause's corrosion.
Corrosion forms particles, and particles get stuck in your system.
Those particles and the moisture end up at the bottom of your caliper behind your brake piston.

I'm sorry but I can't spell it out any better for you than this.

 

[willie]

Actually not on a car.. 151 model jeeps, M35 2.5 ton trucks..

but like Motor Oil.. if you change it like you are supposed to, NO sludge.. ever see a sludged up engine after years of abuse?? How about the same engine that has been maintained properly with the same amount of miles?

What caliber brakes do chevy's have??

I think mine are .44 magnums..

I just didn't want to say that.

 

[willie]

Thank you for your correction.

You still don't get it..Brake fluid absorbs moister and moister cause's corrosion.
Corrosion forms particles, and particles get stuck in your system.
Those particles and the moisture end up at the bottom of your caliper behind your brake piston.

I'm sorry but I can't spell it out any better for you than this.

Ricky, with the exception of caliper, you have spelled it out quite well and I think itsbob does get it but you are exaggerating the moisture problem. If you're talking about autox or any other event that would cause extreme heat then you may develop problems but not necessarily moisture. An automobile in normal service will not do it. Service writers are taught to "inform" the customer of the brake flush service because it makes money just like the 3000 mile oil change. Neither one will you find in your owners manual. Toyota tried to sell my dad a coolant flush at 80k and it comes with 150k fluid. It's a snow job Ricky!

Several months ago, I put pads on a 2004 Suburban 2500 and there was no problem pushing back the piston. I will bet you a quart of DOT 3 that the ABS on that Suburban is identical to the Hummer. Maybe you had a frozen caliber. Sorry, that was cruel.

 

[Oz]

Ricky, with the exception of caliper, you have spelled it out quite well and I think itsbob does get it but you are exaggerating the moisture problem. If you're talking about autox or any other event that would cause extreme heat then you may develop problems but not necessarily moisture. An automobile in normal service will not do it. Service writers are taught to "inform" the customer of the brake flush service because it makes money just like the 3000 mile oil change. Neither one will you find in your owners manual. Toyota tried to sell my dad a coolant flush at 80k and it comes with 150k fluid. It's a snow job Ricky!

Several months ago, I put pads on a 2004 Suburban 2500 and there was no problem pushing back the piston. I will bet you a quart of DOT 3 that the ABS on that Suburban is identical to the Hummer. Maybe you had a frozen caliber. Sorry, that was cruel.

If your Toyota Coolant was tested first, then your dad should have replaced it. There are also testers to detect unsafe moisture levels in brake fluid which would cost a shop under $200.

Somewhere between the extreme of annual brake fluid changes pushed by the flush machine manufacturers, (which I don't necessarily think is a bad idea) and the lack of any maintenance on the brake system prior to failure, is about when the fluid should be changed. I would guess that if everyone would change brake fluid every 2 years, all vehicles on the road would be a lot safer.

 

[Christy]

BTW: I am an ASE and GM certified mechanic and Cymers manuals to Mechanics are like Bob Villa manuals to a Carpenter.

I know I'm going to get in trouble for this, buuuuut..... (I just can't control myself today) Do you sport a mullet?

 

[Pete]

If your Toyota Coolant was tested first, then your dad should have replaced it. There are also testers to detect unsafe moisture levels in brake fluid which would cost a shop under $200.

Somewhere between the extreme of annual brake fluid changes pushed by the flush machine manufacturers, (which I don't necessarily think is a bad idea) and the lack of any maintenance on the brake system prior to failure, is about when the fluid should be changed. I would guess that if everyone would change brake fluid every 2 years, all vehicles on the road would be a lot safer.

I have been driving for nearly 30 years, owned vehicles for 22 years, maintained all them including motorcycles, cars, trucks, tractors, combines, dozers, front end loaders, semi trucks, grain trucks, spreader trucks and have NEVER seen a brake system "just fail", except for the home made soap box derby car when I was 10 because the piece of wood that rubbed on the wheel as a hand brake fell off. (I don't want to talk about that because it was a traumatic incident.)

In all that time with all those vehicles I have never nor have I ever seen anyone flush brake fluid. If we did maintenance and we needed to bleed the brakes we refilled the resevior after bleeding, but never flushed it.

I have also changed pads on disk and drum brakes and on vehicles with ABS and I have never had any trouble pushing back the piston.

 

[willie]

If your Toyota Coolant was tested first, then your dad should have replaced it. There are also testers to detect unsafe moisture levels in brake fluid which would cost a shop under $200.

Somewhere between the extreme of annual brake fluid changes pushed by the flush machine manufacturers, (which I don't necessarily think is a bad idea) and the lack of any maintenance on the brake system prior to failure, is about when the fluid should be changed. I would guess that if everyone would change brake fluid every 2 years, all vehicles on the road would be a lot safer.

They didn't want to test it, the service writer looked at his monitor and it said 80k....replace it. This is a common practice and people believe the dealer before they read the owners manual. It amazes me that drivers will believe Jiffy Lub before they believe the manufacturer.

What failure has brake fluid ever caused?