Larry Gude
Strung Out
Tox...
...now, now.
We can't go throwing...
...them two together.
Atheist: one who denies or disbelieves the existence of God or gods
Agnostic: One who holds that the ultimate cause (God) and the essential nature of things are unknown or unknowable or that human knowledge is limited to experience
We also need selections for:
Humanism: any system or mode of thought or action in which human interests predominate
and the catch-all...
Pagan
Any more?
My favorite:
Pragmatism: a tendency, movement or more or less difinitive system of thought in which stress, emphasis, is placed upon practical consequences and values as standards for explicating philosophic concepts, and as tests for determining their value and truth.
Give this one some thought because, to me, this is what we all are.
...now, now.
We can't go throwing...
...them two together.
Atheist: one who denies or disbelieves the existence of God or gods
Agnostic: One who holds that the ultimate cause (God) and the essential nature of things are unknown or unknowable or that human knowledge is limited to experience
We also need selections for:
Humanism: any system or mode of thought or action in which human interests predominate
and the catch-all...
Pagan
Any more?
My favorite:
Pragmatism: a tendency, movement or more or less difinitive system of thought in which stress, emphasis, is placed upon practical consequences and values as standards for explicating philosophic concepts, and as tests for determining their value and truth.
Give this one some thought because, to me, this is what we all are.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Willie...
...yeah you're right.
What I'm suggesting is a person chooses their faith and they make that choice for totally practical considerations: It's what they were taught. It's what they grew up with. It's the religion of their friends and/or neighbors. It's what they believe in. It's what is expected. Any one or a combination of all.
No one worships a faith, truly, that they do not find fullfiling or rewarding or whatever. It brings practical benefit to ones life be it order, spiritual fullfilment, grace, peace, etc...
Valid?
...yeah you're right.
What I'm suggesting is a person chooses their faith and they make that choice for totally practical considerations: It's what they were taught. It's what they grew up with. It's the religion of their friends and/or neighbors. It's what they believe in. It's what is expected. Any one or a combination of all.
No one worships a faith, truly, that they do not find fullfiling or rewarding or whatever. It brings practical benefit to ones life be it order, spiritual fullfilment, grace, peace, etc...
Valid?
Toxick
Splat
Re: Tox...
Oh brother
To be honest with you - and this may just be my experience: Agnostics are just as closeminded on the subject as militant atheists.
Sorry if that offends any agnostics here, but it's true.
I don't see this as exclusive. I consider myself a pragmatist and a christian. I see it more of a philosophy (along the lines of optimism, or pessimism) than any sort of a belief.
I'm sure there are pragmatic pagans, muslims and jews running around.
Oh brother
To be honest with you - and this may just be my experience: Agnostics are just as closeminded on the subject as militant atheists.
Sorry if that offends any agnostics here, but it's true.
I don't see this as exclusive. I consider myself a pragmatist and a christian. I see it more of a philosophy (along the lines of optimism, or pessimism) than any sort of a belief.
I'm sure there are pragmatic pagans, muslims and jews running around.
Toxick
Splat
Re: Willie...
Mostly. Except the first paragraph
Some of us have not chosen our religion based on what we were told - but what we have chosen to accept as valid evidence of a supreme being.
Ok. Maybe the vast majority of people just accepted what they were taught - but I don't think it's fair to say that we've all done this, or everyone's like that.
I think that most atheists/agnostics (bite me) have chosen their belief system based not on what they were taught, but what they believe there is evidence to support - which is nothing.
Mostly. Except the first paragraph
Some of us have not chosen our religion based on what we were told - but what we have chosen to accept as valid evidence of a supreme being.
Ok. Maybe the vast majority of people just accepted what they were taught - but I don't think it's fair to say that we've all done this, or everyone's like that.
I think that most atheists/agnostics (bite me) have chosen their belief system based not on what they were taught, but what they believe there is evidence to support - which is nothing.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Tox...
...and...
I'm not trying to split hairs or ruffle feathers.
I'm neither. I just see atheists and agnostics as clearly different.
Call one the other and maybe we'd agree based on the reaction?
...and...
I'm not trying to split hairs or ruffle feathers.
I'm neither. I just see atheists and agnostics as clearly different.
Call one the other and maybe we'd agree based on the reaction?
Z
zuchick
Guest
Re: Tox...
I personally do not believe there is such a thing as a True Atheist. Regardless of what is said here, I find they are merely agnostics.
I personally do not believe there is such a thing as a True Atheist. Regardless of what is said here, I find they are merely agnostics.
willie
Well-Known Member
Re: Re: Re: Tox...
Zupchuck said I missed that day. On second thought, I agree, a religious person can be pragmatic. I am not religious but to me it seems orderly that some big being is responsible for all this. Other subjects that require me to have faith, like evolution, I'm also a pragmatist and that is why I originally felt the two don't mix.
watercolor
yeah yeah
He probably looks at them as the fundamentalist type. :shrug: I am not sure. But you are right. This thread/poll is to incomplete to tackle/vote/opinionate/etc
F
Flo
Guest
I am of Episcopalian faith, though I have worshipped in the Methodist, Catholic, Baptist, Luthern, Church of God, and married at Grace Brethern. So you can see I don't have a preference in which God I worship, just that I can worship freely.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Tox...
You're right and we agree.
I think I'm not doing a very good job of making a distinction between atheists, who would argue against a 'god' no matter what and agnostics who will accept a devine deing when they see one.
...and...
...agree there as well. I guess I'm splitting hairs here.
You're right and we agree.
I think I'm not doing a very good job of making a distinction between atheists, who would argue against a 'god' no matter what and agnostics who will accept a devine deing when they see one.
...and...
...agree there as well. I guess I'm splitting hairs here.
Toxick
Splat
Re: Tox...
No, you're doing fine. I'm being deliberately obstinate on a certain level - I do realize that there is ostensibly a distinction between atheists and agnostics - however, I often choose not to recognize it, because IMO, any disparity in their beliefs is cosmetic. To wit: I think atheists and agnostics belief exactly the same thing, agnostics just aren't willing to commit.
You say agnostics will accept a divine being when they see one. I would daresay that if God strolled in the front door with lightning in one hand, and thunder in the other, many atheists would do likewise.
No, you're doing fine. I'm being deliberately obstinate on a certain level - I do realize that there is ostensibly a distinction between atheists and agnostics - however, I often choose not to recognize it, because IMO, any disparity in their beliefs is cosmetic. To wit: I think atheists and agnostics belief exactly the same thing, agnostics just aren't willing to commit.
You say agnostics will accept a divine being when they see one. I would daresay that if God strolled in the front door with lightning in one hand, and thunder in the other, many atheists would do likewise.
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
I believe in God, but I don't belong to an organized religion.
It pizzes me off when people claim to know exactly what God is thinking, or especially when they say they're going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell. I think spirituality shouldn't be about judgmentality or self-righteousness.
When I was a kid, my family went to a Lutheran church for a while. One day after Sunday school, I came back to the regular service and found a guest preacher talking about Job or about the persecution of early Christians, I can't remember which. He had two kids standing next to him. He talked about how his enemies put his son's eye out, and had the boy cover his eye with his hand. And then he said his enemies cut out his daughter's tongue, and had the girl cover her mouth with her hand. I was thinking, "Is this what religion is about? Child mutilation? What if someone wants to cut out my eye or chop out my tongue?"
It pizzes me off when people claim to know exactly what God is thinking, or especially when they say they're going to heaven and everyone else is going to hell. I think spirituality shouldn't be about judgmentality or self-righteousness.
When I was a kid, my family went to a Lutheran church for a while. One day after Sunday school, I came back to the regular service and found a guest preacher talking about Job or about the persecution of early Christians, I can't remember which. He had two kids standing next to him. He talked about how his enemies put his son's eye out, and had the boy cover his eye with his hand. And then he said his enemies cut out his daughter's tongue, and had the girl cover her mouth with her hand. I was thinking, "Is this what religion is about? Child mutilation? What if someone wants to cut out my eye or chop out my tongue?"
