Rummy just gave a great answer to the Rep. from Rhode Island

[Kizzy]

Originally posted by Pete


What those goobers did to the POW's was unprofessional and wrong and they should get court martialed and sent to the brig as should the senior NCO's because they didn't stop it or didn't know what was going on. Not only did they blemish the reputation of their service, they caused increased danger to all their fellow combatants who are now faced with more rage due to some stooge wanting to get their picture taken next to a pile of nekkid Iraqi's for the guys back home.

My concern at this point is not only the increased danger there but the increased danger here, in this country.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
So you've been there and sat down at the Mickey Ds with some Iraqi dude and he told you this?

Your lack of sophisitication is showing. You have this mental picture of Iraq as some village with mud huts and peasants running around. Clue for you: Iraq is a big country and Baghdad is a big city, not unlike one of our cities here in the States.

Common sense tells me that the majority of Iraqis are grateful that we got rid of their oppressor for them. They'd also like to see a stable government set up, with elections instead of the various factions killing each other for the title. They'd also like some laws that say the President of their country can't just come in and grab them out of their homes because he feels like beating the sh*t out of someone.

You're talking about the Islamic fundamentalists who want to kill everyone who isn't Muslim. THOSE are the people we're trying to get rid of, so I don't really care what they think.

It's interesting to me that you are one of the folks on here that disparage Christian fundamentalists. These Islamics are the exact same as the Christian nutties who run around bombing abortion clinics. Regardless of your position on abortion, sane people will agree that committing a terrorist act on a clinic isn't the way to go. And we (us sane people) will agree that these bombers don't represent Americans as a whole.

Yet you seem to think that the bombers in Iraq DO represent their country as a whole AND you seem to think we should leave them alone to go about their "business". Please explain this to me so I can make sure I understand.

Again you are caught up in the "all or nothing" mentality. Nobody here is saying that EVERYONE in Iraq (or the surrounding nations) love us or hate us.
But with our people being killed over there everyday, you are saying that our highly skilled military can not handle a few outlaws in Iraq? Obviously you are highly underestimating the resistance. We can only hope that your son does not take this same attitude while over there.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SmallTown
But with our people being killed over there everyday, you are saying that our highly skilled military can not handle a few outlaws in Iraq?

Not with their hands tied behind their back, no.

As I was in the shower it occurred to me why I scoff at this whole POW crap. It's the way it's been presented to us.

First came reports that POWs were being stripped down and Lynndie Englund laughed at their weenies. The public gave a collective yawn - tell someone who gives a crap.

Then came the reports of, "Well, they also wrote an ethnic slur on a POW's arm! AND they brought in a dog to bark at blindfolded prisoners to intimidate them!" Again, *yawn*.

So the story keeps getting tweaked until we can get the whole country in a state of outrage. Now Iraqi children are being raped and mutilated. Old women are being beaten to death. Yadda yadda yadda.

Now the Red Cross is getting in on the act with all kinds of stories of torture and abuse. My question is: the Red Cross has been there the whole time - why are they just now reporting abuse of this magnitude? The press has been there the whole time as well - why are THEY just now jumping on the "torture" bandwagon?

I think the whole thing is bullsh*t and Bush is buying into it to save his re-election chances.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Not with their hands tied behind their back, no.

As I was in the shower it occurred to me why I scoff at this whole POW crap. It's the way it's been presented to us.

First came reports that POWs were being stripped down and Lynndie Englund laughed at their weenies. The public gave a collective yawn - tell someone who gives a crap.

Then came the reports of, "Well, they also wrote an ethnic slur on a POW's arm! AND they brought in a dog to bark at blindfolded prisoners to intimidate them!" Again, *yawn*.

So the story keeps getting tweaked until we can get the whole country in a state of outrage. Now Iraqi children are being raped and mutilated. Old women are being beaten to death. Yadda yadda yadda.

Now the Red Cross is getting in on the act with all kinds of stories of torture and abuse. My question is: the Red Cross has been there the whole time - why are they just now reporting abuse of this magnitude? The press has been there the whole time as well - why are THEY just now jumping on the "torture" bandwagon?

I think the whole thing is bullsh*t and Bush is buying into it to save his re-election chances.

Yea right. But funny you should mention the red cross.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-05-10-redcross_x.htm

This isn't new "news" from there, been there for quite awhile. Just seemed no action had been taken until now.

 

[SuperGrover]

Originally posted by Pete
I have a very simplistic view of the Middle East. They are tribal nomads only slightly higher on the food chain than barbarians who would still be wandering and butchering each other if it were not for oil being discovered.

What those goobers did to the POW's was unprofessional and wrong and they should get court martialed and sent to the brig as should the senior NCO's because they didn't stop it or didn't know what was going on. Not only did they blemish the reputation of their service, they caused increased danger to all their fellow combatants who are now faced with more rage due to some stooge wanting to get their picture taken next to a pile of nekkid Iraqi's for the guys back home.

They also caused a black mark on our nation. From the first day of boot camp they tell us that everywhere we go we are ambasadors of our contry. These knucklheads poisoned already murky water. There are rules, international and our own on the treatment of prisoners. Follow them because what makes America different from all the others is that we do the right thing even when no one is looking.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SmallTown
But funny you should mention the red cross

Not "funny" at all - that's exactly why I mentioned them.

Just seemed no action had been taken until now.

And why do you suppose that might be?

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Not "funny" at all - that's exactly why I mentioned them.

And why do you suppose that might be?

It was funny because with the way you mentioned the red cross, it was as if they just happened to be there a few days ago and saw what was happening. It was happening for awhile, and you saw the response they got from the military.

The stuff had been reported, I would have to assume people in the military and the administration were hoping to keep it quiet.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SmallTown
It was funny because with the way you mentioned the red cross, it was as if they just happened to be there a few days ago and saw what was happening.

Please re-read my post:

Now the Red Cross is getting in on the act with all kinds of stories of torture and abuse. My question is: the Red Cross has been there the whole time - why are they just now reporting abuse of this magnitude? The press has been there the whole time as well - why are THEY just now jumping on the "torture" bandwagon?

Now you say:

I would have to assume people in the military and the administration were hoping to keep it quiet.

I knew it was only a matter of time before you brought the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy into it.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Please re-read my post:



Now you say:
I knew it was only a matter of time before you brought the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy into it.

You assume the military officials who claimed it was the way they do things were republicans? You seem to think this is a political issue? How sad.

 

[Pete]

What really torques me off with this particular issue is the politisizing of it. These Iraqi's while not being treated as good as prisoners in our own jails are not being "tortured". That is they are not having pain inflicted on them. They are being psychologically broken down and humiliated, it happens, it is a technique often used. In this case it seems to have been taken a little far with the spoopid photographs of Billy and Babs badass posing for pictures but hey, punish the stoopid ones and end it.

The Democrats are doing EVERYTHING within their power to destabilize this administration. This just gives them more ammo. They would love to see Rumsfeld ousted because it would create an appearance of instability. They just need to shut their pie holes, let the military handle the discipline and forge ahead. Causing problems for political gain is as reprehencable as my spelling.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Pete
What really torques me off with this particular issue is the politisizing of it. These Iraqi's while not being treated as good as prisoners in our own jails are not being "tortured". That is they are not having pain inflicted on them.

Many in the nazi camps weren't going through horrific pain either, but still considered torture.

And the red cross reports points to more than just "mental abuse"

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by SmallTown
Many in the nazi camps weren't going through horrific pain either, but still considered torture.

And the red cross reports points to more than just "mental abuse"

You didn't just compare us to the Nazi's did you?

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SmallTown
And the red cross reports points to more than just "mental abuse"

Believe what you want. The Red Cross also stole a bunch of 9-11 money to buy themselves new computers and goodies - money that was SUPPOSED to go to the victims' families.

And again I ask the question: if the Red Cross knew this had been going on for so many months, why did they wait until now to speak up?

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Pete
You didn't just compare us to the Nazi's did you?

ST has compared Bush to Hitler many times in the past - it stands to reason he also thinks US soldiers are Nazis.

 

[vraiblonde]

Besides, the psychic says it's a set-up.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Pete
You didn't just compare us to the Nazi's did you?

No.

Sheesh. Only the people on this board would come to that conclusion from my post.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde


And again I ask the question: if the Red Cross knew this had been going on for so many months, why did they wait until now to speak up?

They didn't.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by SmallTown
Many in the nazi camps weren't going through horrific pain either, but still considered torture.

And the red cross reports points to more than just "mental abuse"

I am not sure but medical experiments and being gassed is not exactly painless. This is just an attempt to stir shiznit. Punish the goobers who were taking liberties with the prisoners and move along.

The red cross would have been in Geneva faster than a crack whore on a rock if they saw any bona fide violations. What they saw was stuff that they didn't agree with. Fortunatly for us the Red Cross does not set policy, they just monitor.

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
ST has compared Bush to Hitler many times in the past - it stands to reason he also thinks US soldiers are Nazis.

Again, only people on this board could pull such a conclusion from their a@@

 

[SmallTown]

Originally posted by Pete
I am not sure but medical experiments and being gassed is not exactly painless. This is just an attempt to stir shiznit. Punish the goobers who were taking liberties with the prisoners and move along.

The red cross would have been in Geneva faster than a crack whore on a rock if they saw any bona fide violations. What they saw was stuff that they didn't agree with. Fortunatly for us the Red Cross does not set policy, they just monitor.

And luckily those that do set policy are looking at the red cross reports and taking action.