Seattle Pass On 2nd Down Dictated By NE Defense

[Tilted]

I have no problem with throwing, none. I just think that hard slant is a LOT riskier than you do. Again, I had no dog in this fight but, I felt awful for Seattle after that big catch and I was in shock when Wilson went back to pass....and...threw....tight...right into traffic. Again, I felt relief FOR them as I thought, at first, it had simply hit the ground.

Seattle certainly practiced this and are with you that this isn't some mind bending, way out there call. To them and you.

Ahhh... so your ardent criticism is narrower than much of the ardent criticism I've heard. You aren't saying that passing at all in that situation was the stupidest thing since IMB said - sure Mr. Gates, you can keep the right to license that operating system - you're saying that the passing play they called was a bad choice. I wouldn't argue too much with that assessment.

I myself would have liked to seen them get Russell Wilson out of the pocket so that he had the option to make a play with his arm or with his legs - he's so good at exploiting defenses' inability to take both of those potentialities away at the same time. And then just trust him to throw the ball away if the play wasn't there. With the time left on the clock and a time out remaining, time wouldn't have been an issue unless he let himself get tackled in the field of play. They could still come back and run the ball twice if they wanted.

So... okay... we don't disagree as much as I thought we did (other than, maybe, on the pick risk that play represented and where the ideal placement for the ball was).

 

[Larry Gude]

No, the throw needs to be in the receivers gut. .

All you're doing is making the quick sand worser-er. So, now, in addition to the rest of the bad we add the possibility of a less than perfect pass.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ahhh... so your ardent criticism is narrower than much of the ardent criticism I've heard. You aren't saying that passing at all in that situation was the stupidest thing since IMB said - sure Mr. Gates, you can keep the right to license that operating system - you're saying that the passing play they called was a bad choice. I wouldn't argue too much with that assessment.

I myself would have liked to seen them get Russell Wilson out of the pocket so that he had the option to make a play with his arm or with his legs - he's so good at exploiting defenses' inability to take both of those potentialities away at the same time. And then just trust him to throw the ball away if the play wasn't there. With the time left on the clock and a time out remaining, time wouldn't have been an issue unless he let himself get tackled in the field of play. They could still come back and run the ball twice if they wanted.

So... okay... we don't disagree as much as I thought we did (other than, maybe, on the pick risk that play represented and where the ideal placement for the ball was).

Absolutely; a roll out. He can run it in, throw a deep fade, hit someone who is wide open, punt, run out of bounds. We disagree on the risk level of the hard slant at the goal line.

 

[Tilted]

All you're doing is making the quick sand worser-er. So, now, in addition to the rest of the bad we add the possibility of a less than perfect pass.

Whatever they called there were gonna be possibilities for it going badly. The point is, in my view, even with what they called it took things going quite badly (i.e. a not so good pass and an "incredible" defensive play) for things to... ummm... go that badly.


EDIT: Hey, I got my second wind. This silly distraction is fun again!

 

[Tilted]

Man, ad placement software has gotten pretty darn clever. I'm impressed, though I suppose I really shouldn't be too surprised.

Here's the ad that shows up in this thread for me - next to my last post talking about the play call I'd like to have seen:

 

[Larry Gude]

Man, ad placement software has gotten pretty darn clever. I'm impressed, though I suppose I really shouldn't be too surprised.

Here's the ad that shows up in this thread for me - next to my last post talking about the play call I'd like to have seen:
]

Huh. I keep getting "Wifey's World". Maybe that is arena league or something???

 

[Larry Gude]

Whatever they called there were gonna be possibilities for it going badly. l:

No!

Hand off to Lynch, MUCH lower probability of negative outcome. 50/50 he gets in. Game.
Wilson goes play action, rolls out, even lower probability of negative outcome. 50/50 he gets in, throws TD. Game.
Wilson fakes to Lynch takes off on nekkid boot, even lower yet probability of negative outcome. 80/20 for getting in.

Of all their options, what they did put ALL the chips on the number with the lowest chance for success. They knew it. The OC was saying stupid things like "we wanted to use all the clock" because he was shell shocked. That play is not a use the clock play. It is either a TD, clock doesn't matter, incomplete, clock stops, pick, heart stops.


IF 3rd down comes along, I'm betting on the other half of that 50/50.

 

[Larry Gude]

The point is, in my view, even with what they called it took things going quite badly (i.e. a not so good pass and an "incredible" defensive play) for things to... ummm... go that badly.


EDIT: Hey, I got my second wind. This silly distraction is fun again!

OK, well, again, 'incredible' would be if most any other team made that play. Everyone else would have considered it and tried. The Pats considered it, practiced it, emphasized it and TOLD their players you WILL be HERE on this play. And they had the right person, right place, right time.

I do see where the pass was higher than I recalled so, yes, it was not a perfect pass. Again, though, the precision that play requires, to me, is yet another no go.

 

[b23hqb]

Absolutely; a roll out. He can run it in, throw a deep fade, hit someone who is wide open, punt, run out of bounds. We disagree on the risk level of the hard slant at the goal line.

Agreed. I said the same thing in post #8 - let Wilson scoot to one side or the other and see what happens, but I like the outcome. Nearly all passes in the NFL from the one yard line either fade outside to the corners or along the back line. Carroll and Wilson tried to fool them, didn't work.

Bel-i-chek mate!

 

[SoMD_Fun_Guy]

No!

Hand off to Lynch, MUCH lower probability of negative outcome. 50/50 he gets in. Game.
Wilson goes play action, rolls out, even lower probability of negative outcome. 50/50 he gets in, throws TD. Game.
Wilson fakes to Lynch takes off on nekkid boot, even lower yet probability of negative outcome. 80/20 for getting in.

Of all their options, what they did put ALL the chips on the number with the lowest chance for success. They knew it. The OC was saying stupid things like "we wanted to use all the clock" because he was shell shocked. That play is not a use the clock play. It is either a TD, clock doesn't matter, incomplete, clock stops, pick, heart stops.


IF 3rd down comes along, I'm betting on the other half of that 50/50.

Yup.
I agree with throwing on 2nd down there but the hard slant was too risky at that point in the game. That's why I thought it was a bad call. It's such a quick timing play that if it's slightly off then the consequences are well, history now.

While the refs were better, I still think there were some bad officiating calls. There was a "late hit" call on the Seahawks that was very borderline. The Seahawk defenders were running toward the sideline and the receiver ran out of bounds. It was a very quick, can't stop your momentum type of play and the NE receiver got bumped after he ran out. It obviously wasn't a blatant late hit.
Also, on the Seahawks 2nd to last drive (with ~5 minutes left) there was an incomplete pass by Wilson. The defender and receiver got tangled and the defender feel down while the receiver was still on his feet. As the NE defender fell, he reached forward and just caught the foot of the receiver. It appeared to me that caused the receiver to stumble and fall. No Flag. I've seen less infractions called as DPI. That would have kept Seattle's drive alive. Instead they go 3 and out and punt it off. NE then drives and scores to take the lead. Part of the game. :shrug:
Still made for a great game to watch!

 

[b23hqb]

Yup.
I agree with throwing on 2nd down there but the hard slant was too risky at that point in the game. That's why I thought it was a bad call. It's such a quick timing play that if it's slightly off then the consequences are well, history now.

While the refs were better, I still think there were some bad officiating calls. There was a "late hit" call on the Seahawks that was very borderline. The Seahawk defenders were running toward the sideline and the receiver ran out of bounds. It was a very quick, can't stop your momentum type of play and the NE receiver got bumped after he ran out. It obviously wasn't a blatant late hit.
Also, on the Seahawks 2nd to last drive (with ~5 minutes left) there was an incomplete pass by Wilson. The defender and receiver got tangled and the defender feel down while the receiver was still on his feet. As the NE defender fell, he reached forward and just caught the foot of the receiver. It appeared to me that caused the receiver to stumble and fall. No Flag. I've seen less infractions called as DPI. That would have kept Seattle's drive alive. Instead they go 3 and out and punt it off. NE then drives and scores to take the lead. Part of the game. :shrug:
Still made for a great game to watch!

Indeed, a great game. But on missed calls, the first NE punt was only a five yard running into the punter, while the rules say any contact with the plant foot while the kicking leg is still in the air is roughing, and a 15 yarder, first down NE, and who knows how that drive would have gone?

Overall, a well called game while letting the players play for the most part.

 

[SoMD_Fun_Guy]

Indeed, a great game. But on missed calls, the first NE punt was only a five yard running into the punter, while the rules say any contact with the plant foot while the kicking leg is still in the air is roughing, and a 15 yarder, first down NE, and who knows how that drive would have gone?

Overall, a well called game while letting the players play for the most part.

Yeah, I forgot to post that one. It seems like all season the refs weren't very consistent on the roughing the punter calls. Hell, there were times then didn't even throw the flag.

I was glad it was a game worth watching until the end. Last year's Super Bowl was such a let down after all the hype.

 

[Larry Gude]

Indeed, a great game. But on missed calls, the first NE punt was only a five yard running into the punter, while the rules say any contact with the plant foot while the kicking leg is still in the air is roughing, and a 15 yarder, first down NE, and who knows how that drive would have gone?

Overall, a well called game while letting the players play for the most part.

Concur.

 

[Larry Gude]

Yeah, I forgot to post that one. It seems like all season the refs weren't very consistent on the roughing the punter calls. .

That's because it's just really, really hard to give two ####s about a punter. No bones sticking out, no foul.

 

[Larry Gude]

A

Bel-i-chek mate!

Man! That's good! That is spot on!!!!

 

[SoMD_Fun_Guy]

That's because it's just really, really hard to give two ####s about a punter. No bones sticking out, no foul.

Yeah, I can see that. And for the most part the Super Bowl refs let the players play without throwing the flag. I'm fine with that, but that's what bothered me on the "late hit out of bounds" flag. IMO it was clearly a continuing action not a blatant hit. So if they are letting the players play, then an obvious unintentional play shouldn't have been flagged. :shrug:

 

[Larry Gude]

Yeah, I can see that. And for the most part the Super Bowl refs let the players play without throwing the flag. I'm fine with that, but that's what bothered me on the "late hit out of bounds" flag. IMO it was clearly a continuing action not a blatant hit. So if they are letting the players play, then an obvious unintentional play shouldn't have been flagged. :shrug:

Yeah, that one could have been left go. Over all they did OK. The worst was Steelers v. Cards. They ruined that game in my view.