Should a non-citizen have the right to purchase firearms?

[Larry Gude]

Wtf?

Does it matter if he purchased them legally? [/i]

...I love you, man.

 

[Larry Gude]

I think...

There are many rights non-citizens don't have: they cant' vote, they can be spied upon without warrant, they can be deported without trial....Did you just wake up and realize this bunko?

...we should ban them from shooting innocent people. Wouldn't that take care of most of this?

 

[forestal]

They get the rights that get classified as "basic human", but not the ones classified as a privilege. Voting is a privilege, owning a firearm is a privilege, freedom of speech is a basic human right.

Explain this. How would you decide what rights aliens have and which ones they are denied?

Don't just say, ":shrug: common sense", because there are a lot of things regarding common sense that you and I would disagree upon.

There has to be a quantifiable line drawn that indicates, Aliens can do THESE things, but they cannot do THOSE things... Where do you think this line should be drawn, and why?

 

[Larry Gude]

Not according to...

They get the rights that get classified as "basic human", but not the ones classified as a privilege. Voting is a privilege, owning a firearm is a privilege, freedom of speech is a basic human right.

...this;
Second Amendment, US Constitution

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Coulda used a bit of militia yesterday, especially one where the people kept and bore arms.

 

[forestal]

whathisface was stating that he wasn't aware the Shooter purchased his guns legally. The subject of this poll was whether or not non-citizens should be able to own firearms in the United States. That's why I'm wondering what his method of procurement has to do with the question of whether or not non-citizens should be able to own firearms...

Prediction: Real soon now we'll have a bill sent to the President barring non-citizens from owning firearms.

I predict the President NRA posterchild will veto it. Great ammunition for the next election for Democrats...

...I love you, man.

 

[Christy]

I can't believe I'm the only one who thinks it's perfectly fine for a non-US citizen to purchase a firearm. If they are here legally, why not? They have the right to defend themselves as much as anyone else. And before everyone starts going bananas and pointing fingers due to the crazy Korean, there are plenty of US Citizens who've melted down and taken people out with firearm. And also, it's not such a hard thing to acquire an illegal firearm, so the whole hysteria over a non-US citizen being able to purchase a firearm is just smoke and mirrors dog and pony show for the anti-gun crowd.

 

[Dork]

It appears that Cho Seung-Hui was a permanent resident of the United States, and was able to legally buy the firearms he used to kill 32 students.

<img src="http://d.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20070417/capt.e9ffbf83c1be4e679d158b48ace46c9a.virginia_tech_shooting_wx102.jpg?x=320&y=345&sig=56uQvtPk_Fj.2cXkrEnVTw--"?/>

Not even the most hard core 2nd Amendment proponents would say that the U.S. Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms to non-U.S. citizens.

Good god almighty, why should we allow folks who can't be drafted to fight for freedom the right to keep an bare arms???

We need a new law that denies non-citizens the right to purchase firearms.

Why is everyone feeding forestal? If you ignore him, maybe he'll go away. Maybe he'll be encouraged to seek therapy or go back on his medication.

 

[Dork]

whathisface was stating that he wasn't aware the Shooter purchased his guns legally. The subject of this poll was whether or not non-citizens should be able to own firearms in the United States. That's why I'm wondering what his method of procurement has to do with the question of whether or not non-citizens should be able to own firearms...

Prediction: Real soon now we'll have a bill sent to the President barring non-citizens from owning firearms.

I predict the President NRA posterchild will veto it. Great ammunition for the next election for Democrats...

Who cares. If someone wants a gun bad enough, they'll get it. Criminals don't follow the rules! Guns don't kill people, people do! I know people with hundreds of guns but they don't cause any trouble. Take their guns away. What will that change. Forestal, you are stupid!

 

[Mikeinsmd]

They get the rights that get classified as "basic human", but not the ones classified as a privilege. Voting is a privilege, owning a firearm is a privilege, freedom of speech is a basic human right.

Where the hell do you get your info..... you make it up!!

 

[Mikeinsmd]

...we should ban them from shooting innocent people. Wouldn't that take care of most of this?

Great idea Larry!!! Why didn't our lawmakers think of that??


Wait.......

 

[Geek]

Who cares. If someone wants a gun bad enough, they'll get it. Criminals don't follow the rules! Guns don't kill people, people do! I know people with hundreds of guns but they don't cause any trouble. Take their guns away. What will that change. Forestal, you are stupid!

This whole situation is so sad. The truth is there will always be members of society that are "broken" and ready to kill. If we are all armed then they will kill us in other ways like chemical weapons. They will always evolve with us to kill.

 

[SmallTown]

What gets me are the people use this as an example of a need for stronger gun control. These people honestly think that a person who kills 30+ people would think twice if they couldn't buy a gun legally?? UFB

 

[Dork]

What gets me are the people use this as an example of a need for stronger gun control. These people honestly think that a person who kills 30+ people would think twice if they couldn't buy a gun legally?? UFB

Exactly! If we pass the strongest gun control laws, it won't stop people like this. Laws are only for honest people. Criminals don't follow the rules. Why doesn't that make sense to forestal and anyone else who wants tighter gun control. It will make it harder for good people to get guns and protect themselves. Only Police and criminals will have guns. Criminals will have less to worry about when breaking into a house or robbing someone. Why can't everyone see this? Just imagine someone breaking into your house at night and coming at you with a gun or knife. Wouldn't it be nice to have a gun to blow them away or would you rather wait til the Police got there to clean up the mess of your dead family?

 

[Bustem' Down]

Does it matter if he purchased them legally? He still has the right to purchase them as a citizen of Virginia.

The question here is whether or not non-U.S. citizens should be allowed to own firearms.

He probably filed the serial numbers off, banking on that if he escaped, and ditched the firearms, the firearms couldn't be traced back to his legal purchase.

Why the hell would he have a purchase receipt if the guns weren't legally purchased? Who the hell keeps receipts on illegally purchased guns?



Buying a handgun or rifle is relatively easy in Virginia, where a gunman slaughtered at least 30 people at a university Monday, but the state's gun control laws are not the most lenient in the United States.

Virginia laws allow any state resident over 18 to buy a firearm, including assault weapons, if they pass a check of any possible criminal background against state and federal databases.

...
In one controversial loophole, people can buy weapons at second hand gun shows without waiting periods or background checks. Critics of the laws say it allows people to pay cash and take the gun away with no way to track them.

You're dumb. I just purchased a firearm in VA you have to show bona fida citizenship for said background check. Don't talk about what you have no knowledge of.

 

[Larry Gude]

Here's the problem...

What gets me are the people use this as an example of a need for stronger gun control. These people honestly think that a person who kills 30+ people would think twice if they couldn't buy a gun legally?? UFB

...there is an argument to made that had there been a 60 day waiting period, or 90 days or 100 years, perhaps this kid may have gotten over it. Maybe. And, therefore, we must try some more laws. It's called zero sum thinking and it is how children think. Only, that's not being fair to kids.

The global warming debate is drowning in zero sum thinking. If we stop all fossil fuel burning, today, it should help.

Campaign finance thinking is filled with zero sum thinking. If we make up new rules it should help.

If you want a liberal to think in a broader context, get them to talk about illegal drugs and teen sex. All of a sudden this rational mindset of '#### happens' flies in. Get a condom. Take a pill. Use PROTECTION.

Conversely, when we say "Just so no" to drugs and teen sex it's with the understanding that some kids are still going to choose to engage. It's accepted as part of the argument.

Gun controllers do NOT accept that some people will murder others. There MUST be a solution. Ban ALL guns! Wipe them off the face of the earth! We must do EVERYTHING can as long as more guns are not part of the solution. DON'T use protection.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ps...

What gets me are the people use this as an example of a need for stronger gun control. These people honestly think that a person who kills 30+ people would think twice if they couldn't buy a gun legally?? UFB

...sorry for you and you school and all those folks devastated by this.

 

[This_person]

They get the rights that get classified as "basic human", but not the ones classified as a privilege. Voting is a privilege, owning a firearm is a privilege, freedom of speech is a basic human right.

What about freedom of religion? Is believing what you want without being told a right/privilege, or is it a right/privilege that's not a basic human one? Freedom to assemble? You said earlier that spying would be removed from the non-citizen's privileges/rights, what about search and siezure? Isn't the search kind of like spying?

Nope, you're again not making sense; a privilege, by definition, is a type of right. And, much of what you said is as much a responsibility as a "right". Voting is a responsibility. I generally refuse to talk with anyone in my family or with whom I work about politics, social issues, taxes, etc., if they don't vote. They've chosen to have no voice, so I don't give them one - I listen as much as they chose to speak when it mattered. Owning a firearm is definately a right - the second one delineated on a list some pretty damned smart old white guys thought up. They all sound equally like they are basic human rights endowed by our Creator, basic inalienable rights of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[appendixqh]

By your logic here, non-citizens should not be afforded the rights of the Constitution. Meaning, Elian Gonzales (sp?) should have had his illigal alien butt sent back with no fight. Meaning all of the Gitmo Detainees do NOT have the right to a lawyer nor due process. Meaning all of the illegal immigrants should be completely unprotected and dealt with however a citizen chooses. No one not born here has any rights - I like your logic!

Since you chose not to answer this in the other thread, I'll repost here for your response......

I agree...
Send Elians butt back...no fight.
Gitmo...who cares...they aren't citizens and they are most likely there for a reason.
Illegal immigrants...should have no rights. It takes away from the sacrifice the legal immigrants / citizens have made.

 

[High EGT]

If you really want to know how tight gun contol laws have effected a large population you only have to go as far as Washington DC to know the answer.

 

[mrweb]

I just saw that, I stand corrected.

And I'll admit I didn't see it until after you asked about it. It was an educated assumption.

<TABLE class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY id=collapseobj_usercp_reputation><TR><TD class=alt1Active id=p2066759 width="50%">Should a non-citizen ha...</TD><TD class=alt2 noWrap>04-18-2007 01:50 PM</TD><TD class=alt1 width="50%">yes you did miss it dillhole!</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Perhaps you should read the entire thread before making yourself look like an a$$hat.