*Some* Europeans do get it...

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
A few days ago Henry Broder wrote in Welt am Sonntag, "Europe — your family name is appeasement." It's a phrase you can't get out of your head because it's so terribly true.

Appeasement cost millions of Jews and non-Jews their lives as England and France, allies at the time, negotiated and hesitated too long before they noticed that Hitler had to be fought, not bound to toothless agreements.

Appeasement legitimized and stabilized Communism in the Soviet Union, then East Germany, then all the rest of Eastern Europe where for decades, inhuman, suppressive, murderous governments were glorified as the ideologically correct alternative to all other possibilities.

Appeasement crippled Europe when genocide ran rampant in Kosovo, and, even though we had absolute proof of ongoing mass-murder, we Europeans debated and debated and debated, and were still debating when finally the Americans had to come from halfway around the world, into Europe yet again, and do our work for us.

Rather than protecting democracy in the Middle East, European appeasement, camouflaged behind the fuzzy word "equidistance," now countenances suicide bombings in Israel by fundamentalist Palestinians.

Appeasement generates a mentality that allows Europe to ignore nearly 500,000 victims of Saddam's torture and murder machinery and, motivated by the self-righteousness of the peace-movement, has the gall to issue bad grades to George Bush... Even as it is uncovered that the loudest critics of the American action in Iraq made illicit billions, no, TENS of billions, in the corrupt U. N. Oil-for-Food program.

And now we are faced with a particularly grotesque form of appeasement. How is Germany reacting to the escalating violence by Islamic fundamentalists in Holland and elsewhere? By suggesting that we really should have a "Muslim Holiday" in Germany.

I wish I were joking, but I am not. A substantial fraction of our (German) Government, and if the polls are to be believed, the German people, actually believe that creating an Official State "Muslim Holiday" will somehow spare us from the wrath of the fanatical Islamists.

One cannot help but recall Britain's Neville Chamberlain waving the laughable treaty signed by Adolph Hitler, and declaring European "Peace in our time".

What else has to happen before the European public and its political leadership get it? There is a sort of crusade underway, an especially perfidious crusade consisting of systematic attacks by fanatic Muslims, focused on civilians, directed against our free, open Western societies, and intent upon Western Civilization's utter destruction.

It is a conflict that will most likely last longer than any of the great military conflicts of the last century - a conflict conducted by an enemy that cannot be tamed by "tolerance" and "accommodation" but is actually spurred on by such gestures, which have proven to be, and will always be taken by the Islamists for signs of weakness.

Only two recent American Presidents had the courage needed for anti-appeasement: Reagan and Bush.

His American critics may quibble over the details, but we Europeans know the truth. We saw it first hand: Ronald Reagan ended the Cold War, freeing half of the German people from nearly <nobr>50 years</nobr> of terror and virtual slavery. And Bush, supported only by the Social Democrat Blair, acting on moral conviction, recognized the danger in the Islamic War against democracy. His place in history will have to be evaluated after a number of years have passed.

In the meantime, Europe sits back with charismatic self-confidence in the multicultural corner, instead of defending liberal society's values and being an attractive center of power on the same playing field as the true great powers, America and China.

On the contrary, we Europeans present ourselves, in contrast to those "arrogant Americans", as the World Champions of "tolerance", which even Otto Schily justifiably criticizes.

Why?

Because we're so moral? I fear it's more because we're so materialistic, so devoid of a moral compass.

For his policies, Bush risks the fall of the dollar, huge amounts of additional national debt, and a massive and persistent burden on the American economy, because unlike almost all of Europe, Bush realizes what is at stake — literally everything.

While we criticize the "capitalistic robber barons" of America because they seem too sure of their priorities, we timidly defend our Social Welfare systems. Stay out of it! It could get expensive! We'd rather discuss reducing our <nobr>35-hour</nobr> workweek or our dental coverage, or our <nobr>4 weeks</nobr> of paid vacation, or listen to TV pastors preach about the need to "Reach out to terrorists, to understand and forgive".

These days, Europe reminds me of an old woman who, with shaking hands, frantically hides her last pieces of jewelry when she notices a robber breaking into a neighbor's house.

Appeasement? Europe, thy name is Cowardice.

[font=Trebuchet MS,Bookman Old Style,Arial]Mathias Döpfner, CEO of the large German publishing firm Axel Springer<nobr>
</nobr>
[/font]
 

Spoiled

Active Member
Or they are just tired of fighting, napoleon, WW1, WW2.... And to say their 'tollerance' aided the CW, stupid... They, no one could do anything... MAD...
 

sleuth

Livin' Like Thanksgivin'
Spoiled said:
Or they are just tired of fighting, napoleon, WW1, WW2.... And to say their 'tollerance' aided the CW, stupid... They, no one could do anything... MAD...
:confused:

When did this become the spanish channel?
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Spoiled said:
Or they are just tired of fighting, napoleon, WW1, WW2.... And to say their 'tollerance' aided the CW, stupid... They, no one could do anything... MAD...
Ahem. Reagan did. He called the Soviet Union what it was, evil. Evil, when confronted, falls. Evil, when tolerated, grows stonger.
 

Spoiled

Active Member
2ndAmendment said:
Ahem. Reagan did. He called the Soviet Union what it was, evil. Evil, when confronted, falls. Evil, when tolerated, grows stonger.
Lets see, what european nation had the resources to get in an arms race with the USSR? and reagon just engaged them in a second arms race.... They collapsed from the inside... reagon just sped up what would happen in the near future... They western european nations did help as well, they resisted the reds, they gave the US support and an alliance...


You want to talk about being isolationists, take a look at world war 2...
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
Spoiled said:
They western european nations did help as well, they resisted the reds, they gave the US support and an alliance...

Eh... not really. The only real European alliance and support that the US of A received during the Cold War came from the United Kingdom, The Netherlands, Canada, and Norway. The rest of the Eurpoean countries took our money and leased us bases, provided a little intel, but that was about it.
 

SamSpade

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
You know, I'm beginning to think it's been overlooked by *some* that this was written by a German - in a German magazine - and I'm working with a *translation* from German.

The point is made that the European mentality is to appease, to concede, to buy off your opponents. To actually think that creating a "Muslim Holiday" will be gratifying enough to radical Islamists, that they'll leave them alone. That when they slit the throats of your playwrights and authors, you look for a suitable apology and hope that maybe, if you're contrite enough, they will just go away. And that this endless hand-wringing allowed uncounted millions die, because no one had the balls to do something about it.

Did anyone else get the gist of the article? That this mentality towards appeasement, which goes back at least a century, is little more than cowardice? And the charge is being made by a German, not an American?
 

Vince

......
Some people just won't learn from history. Europeans with words like appeasement and tolerance will learn the hard way when it hits their front door. Then you will hear them SCREAM for help, and you will hear "why isn't the US helping us," or "they're not helping us fast enough." They learned nothing from WWI or WWII. They can't recognize tyrannical behavior when they see it, or just look away and hope it goes away. I'm not very good with history, but I've learned one thing; If you don't learn from it, you're doomed to repeat it.
 

Spoiled

Active Member
Vince said:
They can't recognize tyrannical behavior when they see it, or just look away and hope it goes away.
Tolerance of a religion and tolerance of tyrany are 2 different things... We still support tyranicle behavior, we support Egypt, we are starting to support Pakistan... Have you already forgotten they we went to Iraq to find WMDs? Watching the daily show (ok you can start laughing now) the other night brought up a good point: "We want to change our reason for going into Iraq retrospectively, forget the WMDs and terror connections, we did it to spread freedom!"...
Some people just won't learn from history. Europeans with words like appeasement and tolerance will learn the hard way when it hits their front They learned nothing from WWI or WWII.
Want to learn from the past? A former world power forced its ideals on to other peoples to civilize them... They are also regarded as one of the greatest nations ever... It was called Rome.

And I think the europeans did learn quite a bit from WWI and WWII, how many colonies do they have? It was all over land, and colonizing... The US currently has Guam, Hawaii, Peurto Rice and several other place, and places where our sphere of influence so great it could be considered a colony...

I'm not very good with history, but I've learned one thing; If you don't learn from it, you're doomed to repeat it.
Seeing a history repeating itself right now?
 

Vince

......
So Spoiled, I'm just guessing, but you're idea of dealing with people like Saddam, is to sit back and do nothing?
 

Spoiled

Active Member
Vince said:
So Spoiled, I'm just guessing, but you're idea of dealing with people like Saddam, is to sit back and do nothing?
in terms of people like saddam, he wouldnt of been at the top of my list of leaders to take out... I just dont think forcing out ideal government on people is the best way, we went into a country where there was a stable government and took it over, if we really want to stop a threat we should have done so at gulf war I, but we didnt, and we did stop the weapons from being produced through diplomacy...
 

FromTexas

This Space for Rent
Spoiled said:
And I think the europeans did learn quite a bit from WWI and WWII, how many colonies do they have? It was all over land, and colonizing... The US currently has Guam, Hawaii, Peurto Rice and several other place, and places where our sphere of influence so great it could be considered a colony...

:killingme
 

Vince

......
Spoiled said:
in terms of people like saddam, he wouldnt of been at the top of my list of leaders to take out... I just dont think forcing out ideal government on people is the best way, we went into a country where there was a stable government and took it over, if we really want to stop a threat we should have done so at gulf war I, but we didnt, and we did stop the weapons from being produced through diplomacy...
This azzhole was murdering his own people and it was a stable goverment? Maybe a dictatorship is your idea of a stable government, but not mine. Maybe if Hitler were running Germany today, you'd think that was a stable government. You should move to France, you'd fit right in with them. Just sit back and watch. Do nothing and it will all fix itself.
 

Spoiled

Active Member
Vince said:
This azzhole was murdering his own people and it was a stable goverment? Maybe a dictatorship is your idea of a stable government, but not mine. Maybe if Hitler were running Germany today, you'd think that was a stable government. You should move to France, you'd fit right in with them. Just sit back and watch. Do nothing and it will all fix itself.
It was stable, other than the kuwait thing he wasnt trying to take over other nations.... He didnt pose a threat to the world, contrary to what the government said... Now north korea, iran, syria.... And i think ill stay in the US just to spite you :):)
 

Vince

......
Spoiled said:
It was stable, other than the kuwait thing he wasnt trying to take over other nations.... He didnt pose a threat to the world, contrary to what the government said... Now north korea, iran, syria.... And i think ill stay in the US just to spite you :):)
Yeah, we need people like you in the US that will just sit back and do nothing when the sh!t hits the fan. Do a few years in the military, maybe your views will change. And if you have done some military time, and still have this mindset, you're a lost cause.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
"You know, other than that Helter Skelter thing, that old Charlie Manson was a helluva guy..."
 
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