Spacex - Success Without Government

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
SpaceX and Elon Musk are great and certainly making great strides in multiple industries, but I wouldn't say they did it without govt.

Musk's companies enjoy the almost $5 billion in govt. subsidies they receive.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
SpaceX and Elon Musk are great and certainly making great strides in multiple industries, but I wouldn't say they did it without govt.

Musk's companies enjoy the almost $5 billion in govt. subsidies they receive.

I did mention some tax payer assistance (dollars). Something like this govt run would be out of this world expensive. Kudos to Spacex.
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
I did mention some tax payer assistance (dollars). Something like this govt run would be out of this world expensive. Kudos to Spacex.

No doubt. I always felt like NASA made it work with the pennies they were given, but that's about it. Not only would cost be astronomical, it'd take forever and we'd probably find some sort of enemy on Mars in order to schlep 30,000 servicemen and women for "nation building".
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
SpaceX and Elon Musk are great and certainly making great strides in multiple industries, but I wouldn't say they did it without govt.

Musk's companies enjoy the almost $5 billion in govt. subsidies they receive.

Also don't forget the billions (or trillions?) spent by NASA and its predecessor NACA in research that helped build what SpaceX has built.

On a side note I met an engineer that worked for Grumman on the Apollo program, he told me that their budget was essentially unlimited. Grumman really benefited from this directly, but also by applying that knowledge to their other aerospace projects.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Love this stuff...

The success gives SpaceX momentum to begin developing even larger rockets, which could help fulfill Mr. Musk’s dream of sending people to Mars. To do that, he has described a new-generation rocket called B.F.R. (the B stands for big; the R for rocket)

:lmao:

SpaceX's successes almost make me wish I was working in rocket propulsion again....but it's a bit late to go back now. ;-p
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Also don't forget the billions (or trillions?) spent by NASA and its predecessor NACA in research that helped build what SpaceX has built.

On a side note I met an engineer that worked for Grumman on the Apollo program, he told me that their budget was essentially unlimited. Grumman really benefited from this directly, but also by applying that knowledge to their other aerospace projects.

And don't forget, because of cost reasons, they always chose the vehicle from the lowest bidder. The program found that out painfully three times. Every improvement I can think of in technology is built on previous technologies, regardless of who paid for it.
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

Love this stuff...SpaceX's successes almost make me wish I was working in rocket propulsion again....but it's a bit late to go back now. ;-p

Yeah, but this is pretty cool too. Do any work on these? 'Sea Hunter' drone warship

48E5240900000578-5352451-image-a-9_1517820590851.jpg
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Initial report says maybe the center core was only able to relight one engine instead of three and maybe hit the drone ship at 300mph........that should top off the blooper reel.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Initial report says maybe the center core was only able to relight one engine instead of three and maybe hit the drone ship at 300mph........that should top off the blooper reel.

Seeing that all the reports I heard prior to the launch from Spacex peeps that they would not be surprised to see a massive explosion and a spectacular failure at attempted liftoff, this mission was about as successful as they could have realistically hoped for for a first attempt at the most powerful rocket ever ignited. Kudos to them.:yay:
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Seeing that all the reports I heard prior to the launch from Spacex peeps that they would not be surprised to see a massive explosion and a spectacular failure at attempted liftoff, this mission was about as successful as they could have realistically hoped for for a first attempt at the most powerful rocket ever ignited. Kudos to them.:yay:



Agreed, massive win for SpaceX. And for all of us since this is a crucial step in getting us off this rock. And I wouldn't mind my Tesla stock getting a boost :)
 
One news report said the Tesla he was launching was pointed towards Mars. He's talked about going to Mars. Wonder if he plans on using the Tesla when he gets there?
 

LightRoasted

If I may ...
If I may ...

I noticed something in the video of all those people that celebrated and helped with this achievement. I didn't see any black people. Does Elon not hire any black people for his space program? Or do black people just lack the necessary mental capacity to work in such a mentally high level environment?
 

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
If I may ...

I noticed something in the video of all those people that celebrated and helped with this achievement. I didn't see any black people. Does Elon not hire any black people for his space program? Or do black people just lack the necessary mental capacity to work in such a mentally high level environment?

You just weren't paying attention. SpaceX's own stream of the launch starts off with Lauren Lyons speaking. She's a black Flight Reliability Engineer.

6,000 peopel work at SpaceX so I wouldn't base my assumptions of the racial makeup of their workforce on a few clips of maybe 150-200 people in a room.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
4.2 billion is "tax payer assistance"?

So how does that 4.2 billion break down by category and time? And what did the US govt get back in return. And how many billions did Space X spend during that same timeframe? Keep in mind, if you don't have Space X, all your eggs were in one basket, whose handle was formed by using Russian sourced boosters. Nothing like letting a foreign govt have the ability for you to get payloads into space. So there's value there. Lower coast to orbit, that's another value. Competition forcing ULA to actually act like a business in competition instead of a monopoly that has the govt over a barrel as a single source, that's value.

I have a feeling that like the Apollo program and NACA, the ancillary products will far exceed the cost the govt put into it. Not to mention the eventual economic benefits of low cost access to space, of which we haven't seen yet, since the really reusable boosters (like able to reuse 100 or more times with a week or less turnaround between launches) have not really entered service yet. Taking a launch from 60 million to less than 10 million each is pretty huge and opens up a lot of possibilities.

Of course, Bezo's Blue Origin is a factor, but not so much yet as they will be.
 

nutz

Well-Known Member
So how does that 4.2 billion break down by category and time? And what did the US govt get back in return. And how many billions did Space X spend during that same timeframe? Keep in mind, if you don't have Space X, all your eggs were in one basket, whose handle was formed by using Russian sourced boosters. Nothing like letting a foreign govt have the ability for you to get payloads into space. So there's value there. Lower coast to orbit, that's another value. Competition forcing ULA to actually act like a business in competition instead of a monopoly that has the govt over a barrel as a single source, that's value.

I have a feeling that like the Apollo program and NACA, the ancillary products will far exceed the cost the govt put into it. Not to mention the eventual economic benefits of low cost access to space, of which we haven't seen yet, since the really reusable boosters (like able to reuse 100 or more times with a week or less turnaround between launches) have not really entered service yet. Taking a launch from 60 million to less than 10 million each is pretty huge and opens up a lot of possibilities.

Of course, Bezo's Blue Origin is a factor, but not so much yet as they will be.

Yea, ok. My view is slightly different. Eliminate the need for soup kitchens and food banks in the US, then we'll talk about who/what else is next. A couple billion would help, unless it's given to a sole source, one person company to manage.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Yea, ok. My view is slightly different. Eliminate the need for soup kitchens and food banks in the US, then we'll talk about who/what else is next. A couple billion would help, unless it's given to a sole source, one person company to manage.

There's short term and long term. Focusing on one to the exclusion of the other is a bad idea. There are already billions poured into the effort to reduce the need for those things you mention. And I'm pretty sure that nobody just gave SpaceX a check for 4 billion and said, go do what you want. SpaceX spent big before they received a dime, just to show they had something to bring to the table. And the money they have received has been to produce a capability (low cost reusable launch) and provide a service (initially resupply of the ISS and then crew launch and return). The only clear path to reduce human need long term is to enter a post-scarcity society. And to do that, you need to move past energy and resource limitations. Which isn't possible on the resource limited planet we are bound to. That explains the need for humanity to expand beyond the Earth. And if we don't get there relatively quickly, you end up in a resource limited future with no possibility of getting more resources, since the ones you need to expand beyond the planet have been spent on short term needs. And the race goes extinct. sure , you could kill off most of the seven billion and go full agrarian for the rest, and keep it going a few millions of years. Years where everyone lives in villages and dies by age 50. Sounds good.
 

nutz

Well-Known Member
There's short term and long term. Focusing on one to the exclusion of the other is a bad idea. There are already billions poured into the effort to reduce the need for those things you mention. And I'm pretty sure that nobody just gave SpaceX a check for 4 billion and said, go do what you want. SpaceX spent big before they received a dime, just to show they had something to bring to the table. And the money they have received has been to produce a capability (low cost reusable launch) and provide a service (initially resupply of the ISS and then crew launch and return). The only clear path to reduce human need long term is to enter a post-scarcity society. And to do that, you need to move past energy and resource limitations. Which isn't possible on the resource limited planet we are bound to. That explains the need for humanity to expand beyond the Earth. And if we don't get there relatively quickly, you end up in a resource limited future with no possibility of getting more resources, since the ones you need to expand beyond the planet have been spent on short term needs. And the race goes extinct. sure , you could kill off most of the seven billion and go full agrarian for the rest, and keep it going a few millions of years. Years where everyone lives in villages and dies by age 50. Sounds good.

Wasn't a big fan of starship troopers, et al and I'm pretty sure I'll be dead by then and won't really give two ####s. :shrug:
 
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