SS/medicaire...

[Larry Gude]

We are all already being screwed out of 15% of our gross wages.

Do some math. Look at the sheet SS sends you once a year, the expected benfit summary.

 

[Larry Gude]

Example...

If I had saved $200 month and averaged 5% return since I turned 20 I would have at 62 about what I am projected to get, in total, from SS if I collect for 20 years, from 62-82.

When I was 20 I paid $3,000 in SS/Med or $250 a month. It's gone up, needless to say, from there.

 

[Larry Gude]

And...

...if I die at 62 or 65 then I get NOTHING (obviously) but worse my heirs get NOTHING.

 

[itsbob]

...if I die at 62 or 65 then I get NOTHING (obviously) but worse my heirs get NOTHING.

If I was required to invest the money instead of sending it to SS I would ALREADY be rich and retired..

 

[Larry Gude]

There you go...

If I was required to invest the money instead of sending it to SS I would ALREADY be rich and retired..

And some young pup could have your job.

Social Security is THE great fraud perpetrated on the American people. It's a retirment insurance plan based on fiscal realities over 60 years old.

Saving it today is a fiscal crime against the individual, especially those in lower income brackets.

It would be like making an international arms treaty today based on the battleship.

It would be like making medical policy today based on 1930's medical realities.

It would be like making environmental policy today based on 1930's emissions technology.

It is time to put this hocus pocus to bed and it would be fabulous if Democrats jumped in to help instead of saying, once again, that the Emporers new clothes are ab fab.

 

[Toxick]

It would be like making an international arms treaty today based on the battleship.

It would be like making medical policy today based on 1930's medical realities.

It would be like making environmental policy today based on 1930's emissions technology.

Beautiful comparisons.

 

[ylexot]

We are all already being screwed out of 15% of our gross wages.

Do some math. Look at the sheet SS sends you once a year, the expected benfit summary.

I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't actually looked at my projected benefits from SS. I wonder how it compares to the projections of my TSP account...could be an interesting statistic/argument.

 

[itsbob]

I'm ashamed to admit that I haven't actually looked at my projected benefits from SS. I wonder how it compares to the projections of my TSP account...could be an interesting statistic/argument.

That was my next argument.. make SS like TSP, just make it a required contribution.. OR make it my choice.. EITHER TSP or SS.. either way the money is going SOMEWHERE.. let me choose where it would be best..

Can you imagine how much this would invigorate the economy..

 

[Larry Gude]

Thank you...

...but there is more.

One suggestion from the left is to raise the income limit without a corresponding increase in benefits.

Right now SS is taxed on the first $90,000 of gross W2 wages. Donald Trump pays as much SS as a person making $90,000.

That's like saying, once again in 'progressive' jargon, that Donald should pay more for his cheeseburger so many of us don't have to pay more.

Another is to reduce benefits for the 'rich'. This is CLASSIC bait and switch. So, not only do we all pay into this ponzii scheme and not only should the rich pay more than their share but now that payday is coming, they, the rich, should ALSO get less.

Another is to index it to prices, not wages. This is going to CRUSH the very people we are told must have SS; lower income earners who save less. It would reduce the already paltry return by about a 1/3 in some estimates.

 

[Larry Gude]

There you go!

That was my next argument.. make SS like TSP, just make it a required contribution.. OR make it my choice.. EITHER TSP or SS.. either way the money is going SOMEWHERE.. let me choose where it would be best..

Any idea that leads towards ownership. Hell, I don't care if one of the choices is to leave it exactly as it is but that would NEVER fly if people could actually choose.

Hell, take each persons 15% and put it into T bills. They earn, historically, something like 1-3% more than the 'return' on SS.

It is then YOURS. It is an asset. You can borrow against it. Use it for collateral on a home. Leave it be.

It would be one thing if Democrats took the position that hey, it is what it is and we are all in it together, same rules same results. But nooooooo, every time they turn around there is another divisive plan to screw a smaller group, the rich, thereby removing the one good thing about it; An American identity.

 

[2ndAmendment]

It is all about power and control. If the Democrats or the Republicans or government in general can get everyone to depend on government for everything and disarm everyone of any weapon that could be effect in combating troops misused, then they can have complete and total control over the population. If that happens, look out. They won't pay as much attention to the Constitution that they do now and that is very little.

 

[alex]

15%??? I thought FICA and Medicare combined was 7.65%? Where di the 15% come from? Is it the combined employee and employer payments?

 

[Ken King]

15%??? I thought FICA and Medicare combined was 7.65%? Where di the 15% come from? Is it the combined employee and employer payments?

The employer pays an equal amount into those funds as the employee has withheld, resulting in 15.3% total.

 

[alex]

Thanks Ken. So if personal savings accounts happen do I only get to play around with my half or both halves?

 

[Larry Gude]

Thank you Ken...

...kinda scary how little we know, huh?

Alex, in my view, that entire 15% is ALL yours. Your employer pays 1/2 in your name. You don't work, he doesn't have to pay it. The only reason an employer would be required to do that is so you don't know and/or pay attention to it.

The total shown on your SS summary each year includes the employer contribution.

Alex brings a wonderful topic back up for discusion as well; employer witholding.

If we were all paid a gross wage and then paid our fed, state and ss/med ourselves, we'd become a nation of concerned voters overnight.

 

[vraiblonde]

If we were all paid a gross wage and then paid our fed, state and ss/med ourselves, we'd become a nation of concerned voters overnight.

WHAT???? Concerned voters??? We can't have that!!!

I want everyone on this board to take a look at their paystub for their last paycheck in 2004. Compare the YTD gross to the YTD net.

Pisses you off, doesn't it?

 

[Larry Gude]

Now...

I want everyone on this board to take a look at their paystub for their last paycheck in 2004. Compare the YTD gross to the YTD net.

As I suspect most people on here already know that, try going over to the DU and see how that works with them.

Remember to duck.

 

[2ndAmendment]

If we were all paid a gross wage and then paid our fed, state and ss/med ourselves, we'd become a nation of concerned voters overnight.

That is why they do it the way they do. The average person has no idea what the pay. They are only concerned about what they may get back. They don't realize that it is their money they are getting back and that the government had the use of it without paying interest.

 

[Ken King]

Thanks Ken. So if personal savings accounts happen do I only get to play around with my half or both halves?

As I understand the President's proposal, from what he said last night, you would be allowed to play with about half of your withholdings (a little more than 3 points of the current 15), but your play would be limited to very safe endeavors that limit the potential for loss, kind of like the G-fund of the TSP for Federal employees. One question I have is why can't the SS dollars already be applied to that type of venture that on average makes twice what they currently achieve through what they do with the SS dollars.

 

[2ndAmendment]

As I understand the President's proposal, from what he said last night, you would be allowed to play with about half of your withholdings (a little more than 3 points of the current 15), but your play would be limited to very safe endeavors that limit the potential for loss, kind of like the G-fund of the TSP for Federal employees. One question I have is why can't the SS dollars already be applied to that type of venture that on average makes twice what they currently achieve through what they do with the SS dollars.

Because then the Feds would have to find someplace to borrow the money instead of from SS. It is cheap money for them to borrow.