St. Mary's County $6 million School Deficit

[BernieP]

Not sure where you are getting that info, but even with the pay freeze I make about $20k more now than I did in 2008 due to the pay for performance plan.

Without a yearly COLA the money that was allocated to step increases was still there. The very first year of NSPS had a rather large COLA so if you did well under NSPS you got a huge raise. The following years were much more moderate, this last year there was a small COLA and the raises were pretty decent.

You can get a 5 and not get a raise if you are at the top of your pay band. At that point all the money goes into a bonus.
Unfortunately "bonus" became an ugly word last year due to some agencies paying rather large bonuses to GS employees.
That freeze was lifted, but bonuses under NSPS were capped at something like 2%
So, were at the top of you pay band and each year got a significant payout, you did not get a raise, your base pay stayed the same.

 

[alex]

I am really tired of the constant whining by the School system for more money, more money. Obviously more money is not working. They need to stop jumping on the bandwagon of every new education idea, stop trying to be the parents to all these kids, stop trying to tell parents that they don't know what they are doing, etc.

So teachers miss a year of raises big deal. When the economy tanked in 2008 they still got their raises, etc. MD State workers saw furlough days and still have 5 payroll reduction days a year. Their cost of benefits goes up, plus they have to contribute to their retirement system as if they are getting paid for the 5 days even though they don't, so technically they are paying more than the 7% teachers have to pay.

As for para educators the reason they are needed is because of mainstreaming disabled kids in classes. Instead of trying to save the trouble makers kick them out. Education is not a right it is a privilege. If you don't want to learn then get out and try to get a job.

Maybe if we stopped trying to make every kid get a college education they would not need so much money. There are a lot of good paying jobs that don't require a college degree.

 

[czygvtwkr]

You can get a 5 and not get a raise if you are at the top of your pay band. At that point all the money goes into a bonus.
Unfortunately "bonus" became an ugly word last year due to some agencies paying rather large bonuses to GS employees.
That freeze was lifted, but bonuses under NSPS were capped at something like 2%
So, were at the top of you pay band and each year got a significant payout, you did not get a raise, your base pay stayed the same.

I didn't know about the bonus freeze, but if someone is maxed out I am assuming they are a DP-4 (previously a ND-3 I think) so they are making around 120-125k/year so this 3% bonus is `$2k which is nothing to sneeze at. I am close to maxed out and I just don't see it as that big of a deal, seriously it is over $50/hr. I have a hard time sympathizing with anyone that makes over 100k/year whenever they complain about pay.

 

[glitch]

I am really tired of the constant whining by the School system for more money, more money. Obviously more money is not working. They need to stop jumping on the bandwagon of every new education idea, stop trying to be the parents to all these kids, stop trying to tell parents that they don't know what they are doing, etc.

So teachers miss a year of raises big deal. When the economy tanked in 2008 they still got their raises, etc. MD State workers saw furlough days and still have 5 payroll reduction days a year. Their cost of benefits goes up, plus they have to contribute to their retirement system as if they are getting paid for the 5 days even though they don't, so technically they are paying more than the 7% teachers have to pay.

As for para educators the reason they are needed is because of mainstreaming disabled kids in classes. Instead of trying to save the trouble makers kick them out. Education is not a right it is a privilege. If you don't want to learn then get out and try to get a job.

Maybe if we stopped trying to make every kid get a college education they would not need so much money. There are a lot of good paying jobs that don't require a college degree.

Teachers are currently 2 years behind in step increases. Next year will make 3. It's also important for people to understand that step increases aren't raises. They're contractually owed money that the school system agreed to pay when the teacher was hired.

SMCPS is increasing insurance premiums by 15pct next school year, so their benefit costs are increasing.

Paraeducators provide a multitude of services for students that don't require a teacher certification. Would you prefer they fire the paraeducators and hire certified teachers at twice the cost to provide those services?

Legally, all students in the United States are entitled to a free and appropriate education. So, in actuality, it is a right not a privilege.

Are you aware of all the programs (not required by law) that SMCPS provides for the students in St. Mary's in addition to the free education? School sports are free. Transportation is free. Clubs are free. Would you prefer that SMCPS stops providing these services in order to pay teachers an appropriate wage?

 

[intertidal]

I am really tired of the constant whining by the School system for more money, more money. Obviously more money is not working. They need to stop jumping on the bandwagon of every new education idea, stop trying to be the parents to all these kids, stop trying to tell parents that they don't know what they are doing, etc.

So teachers miss a year of raises big deal. When the economy tanked in 2008 they still got their raises, etc. MD State workers saw furlough days and still have 5 payroll reduction days a year. Their cost of benefits goes up, plus they have to contribute to their retirement system as if they are getting paid for the 5 days even though they don't, so technically they are paying more than the 7% teachers have to pay.

As for para educators the reason they are needed is because of mainstreaming disabled kids in classes. Instead of trying to save the trouble makers kick them out. Education is not a right it is a privilege. If you don't want to learn then get out and try to get a job.

Maybe if we stopped trying to make every kid get a college education they would not need so much money. There are a lot of good paying jobs that don't require a college degree.

"Service reduction days" for state workers were in effect from 2009 through 2011. Since 2012, the state has paid back state workers through "service reduction recovery days":

http://www.dbm.maryland.gov/employees/Pages/ReductionRecoveryPlan.aspx

The confusing thing about the lexicon is that "service reduction days" has morphed from meaning "days on which state workers were not paid" to one that now means "days on which the public does not receive services at MVA and other state offices because the facilties are closed". But I assure you, as the link from DBM shows, that state workers are now paid for those days. They are basically days off with pay.

Furthermore, all state workers received colas 1-1-14 and, if eligible, negotiated step (aka "increments") increases 4-1-14. In addition, those eligible will receive their next steps 7-1-14 or 1-1-15 (depending on EOD) and another cola 1-1-15.

The state appears to be making an attempt to negotiate fairly through collective bargaining to make up for the deep cuts endured by state workers from 2009-2011.

 

[intertidal]

I am a new poster - and I will try to provide links such as above to correct factual errors. I will try to distinguish between verifiable factual information and my own personal opinion as much as possible. I hope that does not violate protocol or custom.

 

[awpitt]

I am really tired of the constant whining by the School system for more money, more money. Obviously more money is not working. They need to stop jumping on the bandwagon of every new education idea, stop trying to be the parents to all these kids, stop trying to tell parents that they don't know what they are doing, etc.

So teachers miss a year of raises big deal. When the economy tanked in 2008 they still got their raises, etc. MD State workers saw furlough days and still have 5 payroll reduction days a year. Their cost of benefits goes up, plus they have to contribute to their retirement system as if they are getting paid for the 5 days even though they don't, so technically they are paying more than the 7% teachers have to pay.

As for para educators the reason they are needed is because of mainstreaming disabled kids in classes. Instead of trying to save the trouble makers kick them out. Education is not a right it is a privilege. If you don't want to learn then get out and try to get a job.

Maybe if we stopped trying to make every kid get a college education they would not need so much money. There are a lot of good paying jobs that don't require a college degree.

Do you have kids in school? If so, are you involved with the school(s)? I'm guessing you're not based on the lack of knowlege, of what's going on in the schools, as shown in your comments.

 

[awpitt]

Teachers are currently 2 years behind in step increases. Next year will make 3. It's also important for people to understand that step increases aren't raises. They're contractually owed money that the school system agreed to pay when the teacher was hired.

SMCPS is increasing insurance premiums by 15pct next school year, so their benefit costs are increasing.

Paraeducators provide a multitude of services for students that don't require a teacher certification. Would you prefer they fire the paraeducators and hire certified teachers at twice the cost to provide those services?

Legally, all students in the United States are entitled to a free and appropriate education. So, in actuality, it is a right not a privilege.

Are you aware of all the programs (not required by law) that SMCPS provides for the students in St. Mary's in addition to the free education? School sports are free. Transportation is free. Clubs are free. Would you prefer that SMCPS stops providing these services in order to pay teachers an appropriate wage?

Actaully, sports, marching band, etc. are not free. There are fees the student/parents must pay to take part in these things.

 

[CRHS89]

Alex you are wrong on many things, such as the state service reduction days as already pointed out. But to call disabled children "troublemakers" is appalling. Since you obviously don't know, let me explain to you that there are many children who receive special education services due to disabilities such as cerebral palsy, vision loss, downs syndrome, autism,etc. To label these children as troublemakers angers me greatly. If only you could meet these children and you would realize they are so much more than their disability. Many are charming, funny, sweet, determined, and eager to learn. They are also inspirational. They are not troublemakers. They are CHILDREN with challenges that they didn't ask for or cause. I hope you never need help with a medical or other challenge that you didn't ask for or cause. It would be a shame if someone labeled you a troublemaker for needing help.

 

[intertidal]

Just to be clear, the teachers aren't asking for a raise. They're asking for money that is contractually owed to them. SMCPS agrees to the step raises each year that they sign a contract with a particular teacher. I've actually wondered what might happen if the teachers were to bring a class action lawsuit against SMCPS for breach of contract. At the very least, it would make for an interesting case.

I'm not a lawyer and I didn't stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night, but I'm not sure an expensive lawsuit would be the way to go here. It seems more appropriate (and cheaper) to file a complaint of an unfair labor practice (commonly called by its acronym ULP) with the state labor relations board. It may be that the union prefers to negotiate than to take the more adversarial route of filing an ULP complaint.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Do you have kids in school? If so, are you involved with the school(s)? I'm guessing you're not based on the lack of knowlege, of what's going on in the schools, as shown in your comments.

He/she has a point though.....

Cultural shifts have made it seem like a college education is a must. All while ignoring the $1 trillion national student debt. that are causing college graduates to move back in with their parents.

http://www.asa.org/policy/resources/stats/

Even Google understands this.

"when you look at people who don't go to school and make their way in the world, those are exceptional human beings. And we should do everything we can to find those people." Far too often, colleges "don't deliver on what they promise. You generate a ton of debt, you don't learn the most useful things for your life. It's [just] an extended adolescence."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/23/opinion/sunday/friedman-how-to-get-a-job-at-google.html

Unfortunately, teachers are underpaid, as are police, the military, and other first responders (among others), but ask any of them why they do the job and they'll tell you it's because thery "love their job". Of course, far too often, teacher pay doesn't reflect talent or drive, but years of service.

We also know that schools often fail to provide teachers with basic lesson plans, leaving them to create their own materials from scratch, even when there are tens of thousands of other educators around the country teaching the exact same subject matter. That lead one person to create this site: http://www.teacherspayteachers.com/, an online marektplace that lets educators sell digital copies of their classroom materials for small amounts of money.

We're seeing school spending skyrocket, while testing results are stagnant. The US severly lacking science and math skills compared to the rest of the work. Even NYC's public schools are a mess. A principal at a NYC public school said this in an interview:

"I'm in the red," she said. "I can never create a classroom that looks like [Success Academy's]—the new lighting, the sleek furniture, the technology…A pen is like gold here."

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304886904579475960056985876

New York taxpayers are kicking in about $20,000 PER STUDENT and they can't get pens?

http://schools.nyc.gov/Aboutus/Funding/overview/default.htm

 

[Chris0nllyn]

Alex you are wrong on many things, such as the state service reduction days as already pointed out. But to call disabled children "troublemakers" is appalling. Since you obviously don't know, let me explain to you that there are many children who receive special education services due to disabilities such as cerebral palsy, vision loss, downs syndrome, autism,etc. To label these children as troublemakers angers me greatly. If only you could meet these children and you would realize they are so much more than their disability. Many are charming, funny, sweet, determined, and eager to learn. They are also inspirational. They are not troublemakers. They are CHILDREN with challenges that they didn't ask for or cause. I hope you never need help with a medical or other challenge that you didn't ask for or cause. It would be a shame if someone labeled you a troublemaker for needing help.

I didn't read that as all kids in special ed are troublemakers, just that the troublemakers with no learning disabilities are put in those classrooms.

I couldn't tell you if that's what happens, but I wouldn't walk down the street with your torch and pitchfork just yet.

 

[awpitt]

He/she has a point though.....

Cultural shifts have made it seem like a college education is a must. All while ignoring the $1 trillion national student debt. that are causing college graduates to move back in with their parents.

I understand that.

That's why schools are already addressing those needs with programs offered at the Tech Center. My son took a two year computer networking program. Came out of it with a Cisco certification.

Based on his/her comment, "alex" doesn't seem to be aware of that.

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I understand that.

That's why schools are already addressing those needs with programs offered at the Tech Center. My son took a two year computer networking program. Came out of it with a Cisco certification.

Based on his/her comment, "alex" doesn't seem to be aware of that.

I didn't get that impression. :shrug:

I also went to the local career center, and "graduated" in computer repair (I should have stayed in it, looking back). Took a year off, then went to a technial college, graduated, worked for a few years, then went on to "real" college.

I wouldn't have gone to real college if I hadn't paid off all other student loans and paid my way through, without debt. There was no way I was going to do that again.

 

[BernieP]

So I saw the headline on today's Enterprise - school system is looking to acquire 238 acres for new schools.

20+ years ago they should have thought about that. That's when the resources were needed, abd the land would have been cheaper.
Now with the DoD looking to cut spending and with continued warnings that the work and work force at Pax River will shrink (what was the stat, we lost 1000 jobs last year), they want to plan and build more schools.
Sorry, I have seen a couple of school systems go thru this. The smart ones looked long range and decided that they would suck it up for a couple of years and not over build.
The not so smart built new schools, including a big new high school. To only turn around and have to lease or sell the property off when enrollment declined. The smart ones built what they saw grow would sustain, and when they saw a "bubble" moving thru the system decided to just use temporary classrooms to get thru that bubble.
Of course their financing worked a lot differently. The tax dollars required were calculated to cover the cost of not only construction but operations for 30 years.
The school board had nobody to blame if things didn't work out.

 

[intertidal]

So I saw the headline on today's Enterprise - school system is looking to acquire 238 acres for new schools.

20+ years ago they should have thought about that. That's when the resources were needed, abd the land would have been cheaper.
Now with the DoD looking to cut spending and with continued warnings that the work and work force at Pax River will shrink (what was the stat, we lost 1000 jobs last year), they want to plan and build more schools.
Sorry, I have seen a couple of school systems go thru this. The smart ones looked long range and decided that they would suck it up for a couple of years and not over build.
The not so smart built new schools, including a big new high school. To only turn around and have to lease or sell the property off when enrollment declined. The smart ones built what they saw grow would sustain, and when they saw a "bubble" moving thru the system decided to just use temporary classrooms to get thru that bubble.
Of course their financing worked a lot differently. The tax dollars required were calculated to cover the cost of not only construction but operations for 30 years.
The school board had nobody to blame if things didn't work out.

20 years ago, had you predicted today's enrollments and advocated planning for it, with the more limited financial resources of that time, along with the era's high interest rates, you would have been laughed out of the room.
Hindsight is always 20/20 - unless your crystal ball is 100%.

 

[Gilligan]

20 years ago, had you predicted today's enrollments and advocated planning for it, with the more limited financial resources of that time, along with the era's high interest rates, you would have been laughed out of the room.
Hindsight is always 20/20 - unless your crystal ball is 100%.

?? I remember seeing all sorts of predictions from back about then about how BRAC activites and the NAVAIR relocation would impact the county population and various aspects of county infrastructure.. schools, roads, etc. It was all pretty well predicted...but there were very few proactive or preemptive things done in response.

For how many years now have the existing schools been overcrowded?....certainly more than 10 years.

 

[Tony_M]

Well that will be a first, factual information on a discussion board!!!

Looking forward to it.

I am a new poster - and I will try to provide links such as above to correct factual errors. I will try to distinguish between verifiable factual information and my own personal opinion as much as possible. I hope that does not violate protocol or custom.

 

[BernieP]

?? I remember seeing all sorts of predictions from back about then about how BRAC activites and the NAVAIR relocation would impact the county population and various aspects of county infrastructure.. schools, roads, etc. It was all pretty well predicted...but there were very few proactive or preemptive things done in response.

For how many years now have the existing schools been overcrowded?....certainly more than 10 years.

Exactly, they knew BRAC was coming and jobs were being relocated here. They know what the landowners are proposing for development.
Raising the revenue is part of the job.
Waiting until the people were here and the schools are overcroweded is not planning, it's a knee jerk reaction.
I think the real issue then was Paris Glendenning. The state was absolutely opposed to building new schools as lke any other part of infastructure it would attract developement.
But when you have a people moving into the area, you need that infastructure and the politicians from the state on down to the county refused to accept that they needed to plan for that growth.
Money was taken but was used for things other than roads and schools.

 

[intertidal]

Exactly, they knew BRAC was coming and jobs were being relocated here. They know what the landowners are proposing for development.
Raising the revenue is part of the job.
Waiting until the people were here and the schools are overcroweded is not planning, it's a knee jerk reaction.
I think the real issue then was Paris Glendenning. The state was absolutely opposed to building new schools as lke any other part of infastructure it would attract developement.
But when you have a people moving into the area, you need that infastructure and the politicians from the state on down to the county refused to accept that they needed to plan for that growth.
Money was taken but was used for things other than roads and schools.

Unfortunately, budgets are for one year. It is very rare to see planning for something 20 years into the future. I can't think of a single example - even in planned communities. I see plenty of 3, 5 or 7 year plans, but not 20. Could you provide an example of a county that has planned for enrollments 20 years away?