My irony meter just pegged.
Student debt relief/forgiveness
- Thread starter vraiblonde
- Start date
I would’ve thought sappy, tranny and the rest of the Peanuts crew broke that meter long ago.
LightRoasted
If I may ...
If I may ...
Aside. If they do forgive student debts, they should also go after the collages and universities and get back what was paid to them. Student loan forgiveness + refunding from collages and universities = zero. Win win.
Years of experience pretty much can trounce an "education".It is more difficult .. but it takes experience - which you do not get without a degree
Aside. If they do forgive student debts, they should also go after the collages and universities and get back what was paid to them. Student loan forgiveness + refunding from collages and universities = zero. Win win.
JesusFisher
New Member
Hey there! I totally feel you on the whole student debt relief issue. It's a hot topic. It can definitely feel overwhelming to look for solutions. While I'm not an expert, I've heard some folks talk about various options to explore. One thing that might be worth looking into is income-driven repayment plans. These plans take your income and family size into account and can make your monthly payments more manageable. Oh, and speaking of financial matters, I recently had a chat with a Mortgage Broker in Wolverhampton, and they mentioned some interesting insights. So you can ask for advice of some experts, too.
glhs837
Power with Control
Only two things will fix this.
1. Stop lending for degrees that dont have jobs that pay enough. 120K debt for a English studies degree? Sorry, either humanities degrees need to cost less or you dont get loans.
2. Reduce the cost of a college education. Strip out the requirements that are not really required. Reduce the cost of classes by reducing overhead.
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure you replied to a spammer.
I've strongly believed in #2. College undergraduate degrees are overloaded with crap completely unnecessary for the intended job upon graduation.
Just my opinion, but I think this is a holdover from when people went to university to get a "universal" education - with a specialty in a small, given area. Easily one fourth - and possibly more - of my undergraduate degree had zero relevance to my degree. My semesters were "padded" with crap that might have been "fun" to take, but were I given the option to save money and never take them, I sure would.
I think it would be well if colleges revamped their curriciulum to train people for jobs - perhaps offer something different from a bachelor's.
THINK of it - if you wanted to train a programmer or engineer for a JOB - do you think it would take four years?
glhs837
Power with Control
Yeah, a bot of some king, I think.
glhs837
Power with Control
And this is a thing that bears on the "WE should do it like the Europeans!!!" crowd.
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
Yet another "Too Big To Fail" situation.
Can you imagine the amount of layoffs that would come to pass if colleges were to strip out all unneeded courses? The loss of revenue would be massive.
Can you imagine the amount of layoffs that would come to pass if colleges were to strip out all unneeded courses? The loss of revenue would be massive.
jrt_ms1995
Well-Known Member
Charles III trying to drum up business.
And I am not sure they're wrong in this.
I don't know if it is still a thing - but years ago, I used to know people who would spend bucks to be a certified Cisco or MS something or other - and their training would be intense - but brief. And by the end - IF THEY PASS - they know everything they need to BEGIN a career in that field.
I can easily say that while the math and physics and chemistry and circuit design and so forth were valuable in my career as a programmer -
I've never used a single bit of it. Not really. Without question, most of what I know and need to know on the job - I learned - on the job. Admittedly, without some really good ideas about computing, I wouldn't have the first clue - but even all of the great science and technology I took - never, ever used it - and I'd probably fail classes if I were tested on any of it now.
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
Sounds about the same for drivers in this area! I bet most drivers would miserably fail a written driving exam if they had to take it.
Not necessarily - it also means that students would complete their revamped degrees SOONER - so there'd be "space" in the classes they left.
THAT - plus - there'd be more room for specialty in those "unneeded" courses for those who want to specialize in them.
For example - I had to take history classes - and art history - and music - and so on. Well, my absence from those would make it easier to develop a more rigorous curricula for someone who's taking those courses for some kind of degree.
And I might too. GUARANTEE I'm a better driver than anyone of them who aced the exam. Because I've been driving for 40+ years and often, in horrendous circumstances (like in crazy, large cities).
When I take my teens out - knowing they will eventually drive - I ask them questions - like - why is that light on? What does that mean? Why do you think he is slowing down? What do you think that person is trying to do? When I back out of a spot, I ask them what's around us - but without looking (I am teaching them to observe ahead of time). And so on. I also ask them if they know the names of roads we pass but don't drive on - so in the future when they DO, they will know where it is. Stuff like that.
I try to teach them that despite what people are SUPPOSED to do, every single minute, someone is going to break all that - and be ready for it, rather than cry afterward.
OccamsRazor
Well-Known Member
Oh. I was under the impression that the conversation was regarding the "stripping away" of unneeded courses for practical employment. Here you are advocating keeping them.
You're missing my point. Let's say, for an engineering degree, **I** am being compelled to take some stupid English requirement. Frankly, astonishingly stupid considering that a fourth of all the engineers I will work with either can't speak English well enough, or have always been too illiterate for it to do any good.
And so - we take out that requirement. Ditto music classes. Art history. Social studies and history. And maybe even SOME science classes that will bear little on my career.
That leaves SPACE in those classes. See, to my knowledge, they were only bullchit courses - to ME. They were someone ELSE'S required course, for THEIR degree. I was in a class for religious history which was actually part of someone ELSE's philosophy curricula.
Now - I am no longer IN IT. All of those arts and humanities classes no longer have scientists and engineers in them - leaving room for:
1. MORE rigor in the same class, for those actually PURSUING a degree in them and
2. MORE students in that discipline, since guys like me aren't taking up space.
I think you're operating under the assumption that the "junk" classes were universally junk to everyone. Not at all. I took Chapel Choir - and most of the other students were music or voice majors. It wasn't "junk" - to them. But they had to sing next to frogs like me.
I was thinking an AI bot.
Clem72
Well-Known Member
Your point seems to be that you don't understand how our educational system works.
I assume by engineering degree you are talking about a Bachelor's. It's commonly understood in western educational systems that a Bachelor's degree is intended to give you a well rounded education with a specific focus (your major). It's supposed to verify you are at some level of post secondary general proficiency in several subjects, much like a high school degree or GED verifies a secondary level of proficiency.
You would find Master's programs to have far fewer general education requirements (if any), and PHDs will generally have none.
Trade schools on the other hand are not intended to be general education and so only have those courses (like basic math) as required to be successful in the trade.
Community College / Junior College usually has a combination of the two. You could learn general proficiency in preparation for advancement to a Bachelors program, or you can often focus on a trade and have very minimal GP requirements.
And as you mentioned, there are boot camps and industry certifications (especially in IT) as well as apprenticeships and other recognized ways of gaining recognized experience and training.
So if you are offended that you had to take English classes while pursuing a BS in an engineering field then really the fault is on you for choosing the wrong educational path.
And I certainly wouldn't fault employers for wanting their potential computer programmers to have a basic understanding of English and requiring a BA/BS for a position rather than multiple certifications which just show technical proficiency.
And the issue with foreigners barely speaking the language is kind of outside the scope. If they studied here and they got the same degree then they passed the same classes. They should have a good proficiency of the language. If your workplace just accepted a foreign degree with no such English requirement as equivalent, then that was a trade-off they chose to make.
Oh I do know - and I know about graduate programs. Been in one, and my wife also. I just think bachelor's programs need to follow suit. They simply cost too much to waste precious dollars on "well rounded", especially in lieu of the fact it adds nothing to the degree. I think they follow an outdated idea of what university degrees are for. They used to be for rich kids to follow in Daddy's footsteps - just as prep schools taught Latin and Greek and a lot of other stuff that has no practical value in today's knowledge intensive careers.
I want them to change the entire approach. Totally.