Supreme Court Rules Against Medical Marijuana

[Chain729]

Don't give them any ideas

But your analogy is incorrect. Take prostitution, for example. We can argue that it's a moral law and not a public health law BUT what about the guy who picks up a dose from the local hooker, then goes home to give it to his wife or girlfriend? In that case, it's no different than someone who contracts any other communicable disease and proceeds to pass it along.

I still consider it a moral law. Its not my problem if person X is dumb enough to sleep with a woman who's slept with more people than I have brain cells. Its also not my problem that the woman chose to marry a man with no respect for marriage.

Plus it's always amazing to me that the people who complain about cigarette smoke and its second-hand effects are the very same ones who are proponents of marijuana legalization. It makes no sense.

Don't get me started on the amount of hypocracy in politics

 

[Nickel]

Having society discourage use of MJ would have much better effects than the law.

Because it is working so well with cigarettes.

 

[Chain729]

There's no way that you can use dibilitating drugs and not hurt me, my family, or my stuff. I would have no issues with drug users who wanted to get stoned and suffer the consequences, but that's never the case. Drugs effect performance on the job, which means drug users cause errors that drive up costs, a direct impact. They also end up losing jobs, which means that society has to support them... another direct impact. Stoned people don't feel that getting stoned means giving up your priviledge to drive (or fly, or boat, or shoot, or anything else), so they add to the threat on the roads... another direct impact to my family and I. Now, double the number of girls who get drunk at parties and end up pregnant to account for all the stoners getting knocked up, and you have another group of people lining up at the public trough to get help for their self-imposed problem... help that I am then expected to help pay for.

I know a couple serious pot heads, guys who have been smoking for 20+ years, and the drug us definately not harmless when used gratuitously over decades. This is rarely the case right now due to laws, but once the laws are lifted, they'll be the norm. So then we'll have another group to add to habitual smokers and drinkers, who require more public aid to help them with their addiction, medical costs (since they can't hold a job), and eventual downfall... all of which pose direct impacts on me.

1) MJ does not create the effect of chemical dependancy. The only people dependant upon it have a psychological addiction. These are the same people that have weak minds. Odds are, they aren't doing anything outstanding anyway.

2) Don't get me started on welfare and other social programs. I think they're a load of garbage and desperately need to be reformed. Hell, I don't even agree with a retirement program where I'm guaruanteed to lose money, but I have no choice in my contribution.

3) If they can't hold a job- so be it. They're plenty of highly qual'd people that can't find work due to the current economy.

Just because I believe in legalization, doesn't mean I believe that employers shouldn't be able to hire and fire based on drug use. They test now and stuff's illegal. Are you saying it doesn't happen because its illegal?

4) They arrest for driving under the influence now and they can do it if its legal. Again, just because its illegal doesn't mean people don't do it. Go through the police blotters and see how many stoners have been stopped and arrested for driving under the influence.

5) I never said it was harmless. You want to kill brain cells? Its not like I can stop you. I wonder if they've outlawed aerosol cans yet...

 

[Chain729]

Because it is working so well with cigarettes.

Show me statistics, or at least give me a decent reference to an article somewhere. I have a hard time believing that its done zero good. I know plenty of people that don't smoke because of what society thinks. I know plenty that have tried to quit because of what society thinks.

BTW, when the whiney maggets finally get their way, do you think I'll quit smoking cigs because its illegal?

 

[Chain729]

I agree. Break the law, get in trouble. No doubt about that. I just think it would be much more effective to tax it at 100% and use to subsidize education and other government functions. After it is legalized, the cost would go down so the stoners wouldn't be paying much different once you tax it 100-200%. Potheads don't need treatment to get off pot, they just either quit or continue to work in a career that accomodates them for the rest of their life. Instead, we are paying out tons of money to keep these non-violent offenders in our courts, jails, etc...

These people are smoking it anyway. Legality has had little effect on it. The fact is, even if legalized, most people grow out of it and those who don't probably wouldn't have made it much further in life even without pot involved. I noticed the types who tend to get stuck on it never seemed to have much going for them in the first place anyway. Whats changed in their life? Come on... I bet no one can here can tell me about someone who had everything going for them who ruined their life by smoking pot. Its the losers who stay losers...

I agree with the legalization approach that leaves it in the hands of businesses to still have control over whether they will allow users to work in certain career fields that involved greater risks (hazardous work, etc... ) and they can still test.

Now, this does not mean I should think any kids out there should rush off and smoke pot. This does not mean I think adults should be smoking it either. It does exactly what Vrai says... makes people stupid. But, if they are going to do it, lets make our society better off it with tax dollars instead of fighting an unwinnable battle.

Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, I have to bless a bunch of people before I can get back to you

 

[Agee]

The obscene amounts of money made from illegal drugs is a massively corrupting influence in out society and would end, over night, with legalization.

It is STUPID to be locking people up for taking drugs.

Legalize and regulate.

If your employer forbids it, go work somewhere else. If your high and driving, you get fined and suspended and so forth. Hello huge insurance premiums.

If you contribute to the delinquency of a minor (an actual area of government and societal interest) you're in trouble.

The corruption and violence are a fact of life when that much money is at stake.

As far as public health, do PSA's, make the facts as much a part of the public
debate arena as obesity and nicotine hazards. Show lots of clips of Al Gore.

Legalize. End the corruption. End the violence.

Damn Larry,

I have wanted to start a "Reefer Madness" thread for quite some time. Of course, not sure what crosses the line between forum correct, and banishment to the private forum.

Anyhow:

Legalize it, Tax it heavy, at both the Federal and State level.

Eliminate the billions of dollars of federal money that it is being spent to combat it.

Grow it on farms that have been pushed out of business by the federal government.

Pay immigrants to harvest it, pack it, and make the circle complete!

To me it's really simple

 

[BuddyLee]

or it being a "gateway" drug is just stupid.

Bzzz try again.

Most of the losers that I know personally that have done pot have indeed moved onto 'other' drugs. This is not to say that all those who light up will move onto 'other' drugs, just my observations.

Want more?

http://www.visionsteen.com/articles/twins.html

http://www.mfiles.org/Marijuana/user_impact/b2_gateway.html

http://www.dfaf.org/marijuana/gatewaydrug.php

http://www.druglibrary.org/think/~jnr/conv.htm

 

[mAlice]

Damn Larry,

I have wanted to start a "Reefer Madness" thread for quite some time. Of course, not sure what crosses the line between forum correct, and banishment to the private forum.

Anyhow:

Legalize it, Tax it heavy, at both the Federal and State level.

Eliminate the billions of dollars of federal money that it is being spent to combat it.

Grow it on farms that have been pushed out of business by the federal government.

Pay immigrants to harvest it, pack it, and make the circle complete!

To me it's really simple

Don't forget, export it.

 

[FromTexas]

Bzzz try again.

Most of the losers that I know personally that have done pot have indeed moved onto 'other' drugs. This is not to say that all those who light up will move onto 'other' drugs, just my observations.

Want more?

http://www.visionsteen.com/articles/twins.html

http://www.mfiles.org/Marijuana/user_impact/b2_gateway.html

http://www.dfaf.org/marijuana/gatewaydrug.php

http://www.druglibrary.org/think/~jnr/conv.htm

That makes alcohol a "gateway" drug, too, then. People who have the mentality to get hooked up seriously on one (addictive personalities) are likely to try others. You could say its a chicken and egg thing. Which came first, the pot smoking or the personality that would try all these different things? Pot is just the easiest to find and try out before moving on. It doesn't mean it caused them to want to do more.

 

[Lenny]

Found this to be insteresting. Suprising how it received no attention then.

http://www.medmjscience.org/Pages/reports/jyp1.bhtml

It's a meaningless ruling. Judges don't legislate drug schedule changes. that's why this ruling was and is ignored.

 

[RoseRed]

420 ...

 

[mAlice]

420 ...

4:20. Happy hour.

 

[mAlice]

http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/420.htm

 

[Cletus_Vandam]

The legalized status of alcohol and tobacco are always the first point of argument for those who want to legalize pot, and it always makes me worried that people who have this "in for a penny, in for a pound" mentality have the right to vote.

To me, saying that drugs should be legalized because alchohol and tobacco, with all of their associated problems, are legal is like saying "well... I'm blind and deaf, so I guess I should go ahead and destroy my nose so I can't smell too." or "well, I've already got two broken legs, so I might as well break an arm too... what the heck."

I hear what you are saying, but you didn't answer the question I posed.

Also, my question was pointed at the arguement that pot use effects (or affects) others indirectly by those who may get stoned and drive. Sorry, but even if pot were legalized, drunk drivers would still be in the lead in fatal accidents...

 

[Cletus_Vandam]

Why the gov. isn't involved

The real reason why the government isn't supporting the legalization of pot is because of the alcohol and cigarette lobbyists in Washington. They both realize the negative impact on their financials, if pot were made legal.

I need to make one thing clear, I don't smoke it. But I think it ridiculous to sit back and watch the people running the government and making these laws sit in their ivory towers-full brandy snifter in hand, saying no you can’t smoke dope. He!! Ted Kennedy killed a girl while drunk, and he’s held in the highest regards (in some circles-not mine).

My belief is that if you want to get stoned and you’re not hurting anyone else, why can’t you? Isn’t that part of what FREEDOM is all about?

 

[Bruzilla]

1) MJ does not create the effect of chemical dependancy. The only people dependant upon it have a psychological addiction. These are the same people that have weak minds. Odds are, they aren't doing anything outstanding anyway.

2) Don't get me started on welfare and other social programs. I think they're a load of garbage and desperately need to be reformed. Hell, I don't even agree with a retirement program where I'm guaruanteed to lose money, but I have no choice in my contribution.

3) If they can't hold a job- so be it. They're plenty of highly qual'd people that can't find work due to the current economy.

Just because I believe in legalization, doesn't mean I believe that employers shouldn't be able to hire and fire based on drug use. They test now and stuff's illegal. Are you saying it doesn't happen because its illegal?

4) They arrest for driving under the influence now and they can do it if its legal. Again, just because its illegal doesn't mean people don't do it. Go through the police blotters and see how many stoners have been stopped and arrested for driving under the influence.

5) I never said it was harmless. You want to kill brain cells? Its not like I can stop you. I wonder if they've outlawed aerosol cans yet...

You're right in most of what you wrote, but you miss the point. We have a lot of problems now because of alcohol and tobacco use, at the addicted level or not. The fact is that we don't need to be adding more fuel to the fire by making yet another form of diminished mental capacity available. Now, the legalization crowd loves to complain that since booze and smokes are legal, marijuana should be legal also, but what they should be looking at is that alcohol and tobacco are damaging substances and if we could put those genies back in their bottles we would. But we can't, so where's the benefit to society of unleashing yet another enabler of bad behavior on the public? I'm sorry, but I can see no benefits, just a lot of negatives.

 

[Larry Gude]

She shoots! She scores!

Don't forget, export it.

What a riot! Columbians burning up Mississippi Gold Blend, Afghanis seeng pink elephants from Death Valley Brownstone!

Hell yeah.

 

[Bruzilla]

I think that all of these discussions are missing the real point of the decision, which is that states cannot create laws that supercede Federal mandates. I also think that we should be looking at the fact that the Liberal half of the court was the majority in this opinion, and the most conservative judges were the minority. In this case that's about 180 degrees out from what you would expect.

I think that this decision has nothing whatsoever to do with the wisdom or folly of prescribing marijuana, and has everything to do with abortion. This decision sets a precedent that Federal law trumps any laws that the states can make, which effectively means that as long as Roe V. Wade is seen as the law of the land (even though it's not a law), state laws limiting abortion are as worthless as laws allowing medical marijuana.

I would hope that the NRA is getting ready to jump on this decision as well, as it means that the 2nd Ammendment now trumps any state firearms laws.

 

[ylexot]

OOOOO OOOOO OOOOO! Tourism revenue from countries where pot is illegal (a la Amsterdam)!

 

[ylexot]

I would hope that the NRA is getting ready to jump on this decision as well, as it means that the 2nd Ammendment now trumps any state firearms laws.

I never understood how state firearms laws could trump the Bill of Rights. Here's hoping you're right