The 10 most famous people from history

[PeoplesElbow]

As I say, as I understood the question, he meant real people and real things. I have zero problem added Jesus, or the Kardashians, if it's gonna be about intangible things, faith and beliefs.

:shrug:

Isn't "famous" just people knowing who they are? Unfortunately a lot of people know who the Kardashians are, doesn't mean they have faith in them, idolize them, etc.

Jesus- a man who Christians believe to be the son of God and resurrected after being crucified. I think most non Christians would be able to agree with that assessment of him.

 

[Larry Gude]

Okay, to put some nuance to the definition... My conception of what I'm asking about would depend on whether enough living people thought the would-be list-ee was a real person, regardless of whether they had different beliefs as to what that person did or was. So, lots of people recognize a historic person Jesus of Nazareth and believe he was a real person, not a work of fiction (as, e.g., many might think of Achilles). Some of them think he was the son of God, others think he was just a normal human who others think was the son of God and who is famous because of that. The question is, do a lot of people know who we are referring to when we say the name and do they think that person actually existed.

So, Mickey Mouse doesn't count. But I'd say Jesus does. And I don't think Achilles counts unless we think billions of people believe he was a real person and not a fictional character or a God.

It's your thread, dude. I'm explaining how I came to my list. I'm good with it being a list of people folks believe in.

 

[Larry Gude]

Isn't "famous" just people knowing who they are? Unfortunately a lot of people know who the Kardashians are, doesn't mean they have faith in them, idolize them, etc.

Jesus- a man who Christians believe to be the son of God and resurrected after being crucified. I think most non Christians would be able to agree with that assessment of him.

Totally agreed. Again, I took it to be historical figures, like Hitler, head Nazi, Elvis, Jail House rock, and not figures of faith. If that's the measure, make Jesus #1. Good. Fine.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

I bet you show folks pics of the last 5 popes they can't tell one from the other. Hitler, Elvis, Gandhi, they'd get.

Do you really think most people can tell one indian guy in a toga from another? It is just a fact that people of different cultures think people of other cultures all look alike. On a side note, a Chinese friend of mine says all Chinese people do look alike. Show me a random indian guy dressed like that and I will most likely guess Ghandi but I am sure most people could easily be fooled. Don't get me started with people that look like Elvis, my dad looked like Elvis in his high school pictures.

The famous Hitler mustache only exists because he trimmed it so a gas mask would be effective, do you think most people could ID Hitler with a full mustache?

 

[Larry Gude]

Do you really think most people can tell one indian guy in a toga from another? It is just a fact that people of different cultures think people of other cultures all look alike. On a side note, a Chinese friend of mine says all Chinese people do look alike. Show me a random indian guy dressed like that and I will most likely guess Ghandi but I am sure most people could easily be fooled. Don't get me started with people that look like Elvis, my dad looked like Elvis in his high school pictures.

The famous Hitler mustache only exists because he trimmed it so a gas mask would be effective, do you think most people could ID Hitler with a full mustache?

I concede. Tilted says Jesus is just alright with him. It's his thread. However, you ask Muslims who Jesus was and they will say "a teacher'. They're not gonna say 'the son of God." Ask them who Gandhi is or Hitler and they're gonna have a reasonable idea. Same with Elvis. :shrug:

 

[Merlin99]

I concede. Tilted says Jesus is just alright with him. It's his thread. However, you ask Muslims who Jesus was and they will say "a teacher'. They're not gonna say 'the son of God." Ask them who Gandhi is or Hitler and they're gonna have a reasonable idea. Same with Elvis. :shrug:

But they'll know that you're talking about the same person even if they don't have the same belief. The same thing can be said about Mohammed, some people say genocidal pedophile, others say prophet of God, they all know that they're talking about the same guy.

 

[Hijinx]

But they'll know that you're talking about the same person even if they don't have the same belief. The same thing can be said about Mohammed, some people say genocidal pedophile, others say prophet of God, they all know that they're talking about the same guy.

I am pretty sure Jesus lived and is a Historical figure. Larry appears to be lieve he was a figment of someone's imagination, Maybe that because he recently decided to become a non-believer in faith. That's cool .

I look at Larry's Post #22 "If I was still a man of faith based on the slimmest of evidence, I'd still be a Republican.'

If I was still--that part of it tells me he once believed,but lost his faith. Maybe the flowers all died in his greenhouse that year./
He admitted not long ago to dropping out of the republican party and joining the democrats, and he hasn't stopped bad mouthing Republican since.
Probably why he doesn't recognize Jesus Christ.

He believes Mohammed existed but not Jesus. Mohammed started the Muslim faith , he slaughtered a lot of people, and a lot of people have been slaughtered in his name.
I guess Larry must think Christianity came out of the ether.
Jesus started the Christian faith and he didn't slaughter thousands of people when he did it.
Jesus taught love. Now you can believe all of the biblical stories if you like or you can call them BS, but Jesus existed.

IMO Larry is crying a little sour grapes when he denies the existence of Jesus. Too bad. Losing ones faith isn't good.
There are many in this forum who claim no faith. That is their problem, but why deny facts to domit.

 

[Merlin99]

I am pretty sure Jesus lived and is a Historical figure. Larry appears to be lieve he was a figment of someone's imagination, Maybe that because he recently decided to become a non-believer in faith. That's cool .

I look at Larry's Post #22 "If I was still a man of faith based on the slimmest of evidence, I'd still be a Republican.'

If I was still--that part of it tells me he once believed,but lost his faith. Maybe the flowers all died in his greenhouse that year./
He admitted not long ago to dropping out of the republican party and joining the democrats, and he hasn't stopped bad mouthing Republican since.
Probably why he doesn't recognize Jesus Christ.

He believes Mohammed existed but not Jesus. Mohammed started the Muslim faith , he slaughtered a lot of people, and a lot of people have been slaughtered in his name.
I guess Larry must think Christianity came out of the ether.
Jesus started the Christian faith and he didn't slaughter thousands of people when he did it.
Jesus taught love. Now you can believe all of the biblical stories if you like or you can call them BS, but Jesus existed.

IMO Larry is crying a little sour grapes when he denies the existence of Jesus. Too bad. Losing ones faith isn't good.
There are many in this forum who claim no faith. That is their problem, but why deny facts to domit.

I'm not religious, but that doesn't mean I'm ignorant to the important figures in them.

 

[TheLibertonian]

I am pretty sure Jesus lived and is a Historical figure. Larry appears to be lieve he was a figment of someone's imagination, Maybe that because he recently decided to become a non-believer in faith. That's cool .

I look at Larry's Post #22 "If I was still a man of faith based on the slimmest of evidence, I'd still be a Republican.'

If I was still--that part of it tells me he once believed,but lost his faith. Maybe the flowers all died in his greenhouse that year./
He admitted not long ago to dropping out of the republican party and joining the democrats, and he hasn't stopped bad mouthing Republican since.
Probably why he doesn't recognize Jesus Christ.

He believes Mohammed existed but not Jesus. Mohammed started the Muslim faith , he slaughtered a lot of people, and a lot of people have been slaughtered in his name.
I guess Larry must think Christianity came out of the ether.
Jesus started the Christian faith and he didn't slaughter thousands of people when he did it.
Jesus taught love. Now you can believe all of the biblical stories if you like or you can call them BS, but Jesus existed.

IMO Larry is crying a little sour grapes when he denies the existence of Jesus. Too bad. Losing ones faith isn't good.
There are many in this forum who claim no faith. That is their problem, but why deny facts to domit.

The historicity of jesus is a debated subject. Most people a gree there was a dude in the era who probably did some things related to the jesus-story, but whether or not everything is 100% accurate is HIGHLY debated.

I've never heard any serious arguement that the Jesus story was made up whole cloth.

 

[philibusters]

Alexander the Great, Plato, Aristotle, Julius Caesar, Cesar Augustus, Confucius, St. Augustine, Jesus, Mohammed, Charlemagne

 

[Bann]

Some of my other choices were already listed, so I would probably add

Cleopatra
Marilyn Monroe
Helen Keller

 

[BlueSunday]

Jesus

Adam + Eve

Moses

Hitler

Mother Teresa

Cleopatra

Pope John Paul II

Muhammad Ali

George Washington

 

[philibusters]

Larry brought up the issue of whether Jesus and Socrates were real people. While we cannot say for sure that they were real people, it is 99% certain that they were real people.

I'll start with Socrates. No writings of Socrates survived, so we don't know what he said. That said there are a lot of references to him made by other people. Mostly we know him from Plato's works, though a number of other contemporary sources reference him including Aristophanes Play in the Clouds. Most likely the Socrates we know fairly closely resembled the actual Socrates, though undoubtedly Plato stuck some of his own philosophy into Socrates mouth. Thus you need to be careful when you compare Socrates as a philosopher to other philosophers, such as Plato.

I read a book on Jesus by John Dominic Crossan. Crossan does not believe Jesus was a God. Here is a one paragraph summary of that biography...Jesus's life can be pierced together from the gospels (there are more gospels than the four that appear in the New Testament). Roughly speaking Jesus was born to a carpenter (most likely had younger siblings--a fact referenced in some of the gospels but ignored by most), that he started his career around 30 years old after being inspired by John the Baptist. That he was baptized by John the Baptist. That it was John the Baptist's death that inspired him to preach. That at first his message resembled John teh Baptist's message that people needed to reform because of the end of the world was coming, but that Jesus's teaching eventually became more sophisticated and he began to preach a peace and love message deviating from the apoplectic message of the John the Baptist. That the Romans were wary of traveling preachers who had followings, but even at the time that he was arrested he was probably too small scale (12 followers) to really be on the Romans radar. Most likely the Romans arrested him because the Jewish priests pressured the Romans to do because Jesus teachings of peace and love and a personal relationship with God was particularly abdominal to the Jewish priestly class who derived their income from being the middle men between God and the Jewish people and whose role was minimized in Jesus's teaching (just like the Jewish priestly class hated John the Baptist because he baptized large groups of people for free whereas the Jewish rabbis and priests charged money for that and traditionally had a monopoly on the right to baptize people). That the Roman Governor of the area was not convinced Jesus deserved to die and was plotting to overthrow the Roman rule and may have even tried to spare Jesus (and washed his hands of the execution) but the Jewish priests whose role Jesus minimized rallied their followers to prevent him from being spared.

 

[Tilted]

Okay, I'm still noodling this one but for now this is what I got...

Jesus
Muhammad
Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama)
Adolf Hitler
Genghis Khan

Confucius
Nelson Mandela
Mao Zedong
Mahatma Ghandi
Alexander the Great


The first 5 I'm pretty sure about. The second 5 make my list for now but they're close enough calls that I'm considering replacing them, possibly with someone from my list of the last 5 to miss the cut...

Marco Polo
Michael Jackson
Muhammad Ali
Mother Teresa
Julius Caesar

There are as well a few others that I can't quite rule out yet. Given how much of the world's population lives in Asia, the most viable candidates are those that have some nexus that would create strong awareness of them in both the Eastern and Western Worlds. And to some extent recent significance helps. I doubt that 500 years from now Nelson Mandela or Mahatma Ghandi would make the list. But at the same time, recent fame has a hard time overcoming the broad awareness (in both the Eastern and Western Worlds) that lasting historic significance creates. That's why I don't think, e.g., Michael Jackson or Muhammad Ali quite make the top 10. Also, I think being one of a group that might be brought to mind in similar contexts hurts potential candidates individually. I'm thinking, e.g., of: Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates; Elizabeth I, Henry VIII, and Elizabeth II; Mozart, Beethoven, and Bach; Lincoln, Washington, and Franklin. No doubt British monarchs taken together deserve at least one spot in such a top 10, but which one on their own would?

Napoleon Bonaparte was the last to come off my last to miss the cut list. I feel like he should be in there somehow, but I don't see why he'd be as recognized throughout Asia as some of the others.

 

[Tilted]

I am pretty sure Jesus lived and is a Historical figure. Larry appears to be lieve he was a figment of someone's imagination, Maybe that because he recently decided to become a non-believer in faith. That's cool .

I look at Larry's Post #22 "If I was still a man of faith based on the slimmest of evidence, I'd still be a Republican.'

If I was still--that part of it tells me he once believed,but lost his faith. Maybe the flowers all died in his greenhouse that year./
He admitted not long ago to dropping out of the republican party and joining the democrats, and he hasn't stopped bad mouthing Republican since.
Probably why he doesn't recognize Jesus Christ.

He believes Mohammed existed but not Jesus. Mohammed started the Muslim faith , he slaughtered a lot of people, and a lot of people have been slaughtered in his name.
I guess Larry must think Christianity came out of the ether.
Jesus started the Christian faith and he didn't slaughter thousands of people when he did it.
Jesus taught love. Now you can believe all of the biblical stories if you like or you can call them BS, but Jesus existed.

IMO Larry is crying a little sour grapes when he denies the existence of Jesus. Too bad. Losing ones faith isn't good.
There are many in this forum who claim no faith. That is their problem, but why deny facts to domit.

I don't at all see sour grapes in Larry's position. And I don't think what he himself believes forms much of the basis for that position.

 

[Larry Gude]

Chaplin

 

[BlueSunday]

Charlie?

 

[vraiblonde]

Okay, I'm still noodling this one but for now this is what I got...

Jesus
Muhammad
Buddha (Siddhartha Gautama)
Adolf Hitler
Genghis Khan

Confucius
Nelson Mandela
Mao Zedong
Mahatma Ghandi
Alexander the Great

Tilted, I have great affection for you, but you are such a wonk. Go to any college campus and ask them who Alexander the Great was. :nosepick:

The mistake you make continually is that you think you are the norm, and you're not even close. The kids who wear those Vive Che! t-shirts? Ask them what country Che represented and I'll lay money they won't be able to tell you. They might get Hitler and Mandela, but I guarantee you you will be disappointed if you ask the man on the street who Buddha or Mao were.

You're an intellectual in a ####ing retard world. I'd think these forums alone would have beat that out of you.

 

[Larry Gude]

Charlie?

Yup. He came up in conversation, a global figure due to his silent work: movies that could be played everywhere, and were.

 

[BlueSunday]

Yup. He came up in conversation, a global figure due to his silent work: movies that could be played everywhere, and were.

Very few born after 1975 would know him