The $250,000 dilemma

[This_person]

lets say you mean and a woman who is much smaller than us are walking across the desert and we have a pile of stuff that we all need to carry. is it fair for me and you to carry the same weight as her or is it fair for you and i each to carry a little more?


those that have more need to do more. that is fair and just

Let's say that we divvy up the load by body weight and/or body fat percentage (lower carrying more). Now, we're each carrying according to our ability, divvied up fairly.

In other words, I'm not suggesting that the person making $20,000 pay the same AMOUNT of tax (see the example above) as the person making $4,000,000. I'm suggesting they each be burdened equally, based upon their ability.

Using your example, you and I would carry all of the load, and the lady. That's not fair, either. If we divided up the load based upon our relative strengths, we'd each carry a different amount, but it would be an equally fair division.

 

[vraiblonde]

i dont think it is fair that a mother working as a waitress making 20k/year should have to pay as big a percent as me..

Stop.

So the waitress is making $20,000 a year and she pays 15%, or $3000.

You, at $100,000, will be paying 28%, or $28,000.

More than 9x more than she pays, even though you only make 5x what she makes.

She's not paying anywhere near as big a percentage as you.

 

[BuddyLee]

I make more than.

 

[vraiblonde]

And now let's say you make that magic number of $250,000. Now you are at 33%, or $82,500.

See that? $82 effing thousand bucks that you pay JUST for federal taxes. Not counting state, Medicare, SS, etc.

And your waitress gets a tax cut off her $3000.

Hello?????

 

[BuddyLee]

again, you are entilted to your opinion, but that is the way taxes in america have been working for a long time.

I personally dont mind paying higher percent than a kid working at 7-11 while he goes to CSM.

Good, you can pay my portion.

If I ever obtain a positon in my life whereby I make that large sum of money, which I earned I would be damned if I would be penalized by the government just for achieving instead of subsiding.

 

[BuddyLee]

dude, i am a republican, i am just realistic.

i dont think it is fair that a mother working as a waitress making 20k/year should have to pay as big a percent as me.
neither should the kid who is taking loans to get through college while working as a laborer or at the book store.

So if everyone is deserved equality why should we be taxed unequally?

Everyone has the same chance. Some make the most of it and some don't.

 

[BuddyLee]

go live on 18K/year and get back to me about fair

If you're making that much a year you're not really trying in the first place.

 

[vraiblonde]

Flat tax it at 10%:

Waitress at $20,000. She pays $2000.

You at $250,000. You pay $25,000.

THAT is fair.

And getting rid of the income tax and going with a national sales tax is even more fair.

 

[vraiblonde]

Everyone has the same chance. Some make the most of it and some don't.

That's right. lol



Tommy, now picture yourself paying that money not for a struggling single mom waitress, but a deadbeat dumb#### who is hooked on drugs, has several children by as many different partners, lays on their ass and watches Oprah instead of looking for a job.

Still wanna pay their way?

Because that's reality.

 

[tommyjones]

Let's say that we divvy up the load by body weight and/or body fat percentage (lower carrying more). Now, we're each carrying according to our ability, divvied up fairly.

In other words, I'm not suggesting that the person making $20,000 pay the same AMOUNT of tax (see the example above) as the person making $4,000,000. I'm suggesting they each be burdened equally, based upon their ability.

Using your example, you and I would carry all of the load, and the lady. That's not fair, either. If we divided up the load based upon our relative strengths, we'd each carry a different amount, but it would be an equally fair division.

and if that lady is 80, or has a child, she should also carry the same percent of her body weight as you and i?

And Vrai, this IS the system we already have, and i have no problem with it.

You guys are all acting like this is a new idea conjured up by Obama to turn america into a socialist state, its not. This is the way it has been working. I dont have a problem with it, and if you guys dont like it, considering its not likely to change, you may want to start looking into other places to live.....

 

[PsyOps]

go live on 18K/year and get back to me about fair

Look, this class warfare tactic is pointless. Our current tax system is unfair on so many levels. Maybe someone else can help me out (because I can't find it right now) but as I understand it, wage earners under 25k don't even pay federal taxes.

But, I used to survive on 18k/year at one time. It never crossed my mind that I should expect the government to subsidize my income. There is no tax break that would make the life of someone making 18k easier. I’m not suggesting they should be taxed at any particular rate. I would be okay that they aren’t taxed at all. I am against taxation as punishment for success. You want to destroy the economy when it is already teetering on collapse, raise taxes on those who sustain our economy, the business owners and wealthy.

If I had my way we’d go to a consumption tax. No more income tax. You are taxed on what you buy. YOU can control how much you pay by how much you spend. The rich will obviously pay more. But if you don’t want to pay any taxes, don’t spend. Groceries would be exempt. And the rate would never go up.

 

[tommyjones]

I’m not suggesting they should be taxed at any particular rate. I would be okay that they aren’t taxed at all.

If I had my way we’d go to a consumption tax. No more income tax. You are taxed on what you buy. YOU can control how much you pay by how much you spend. The rich will obviously pay more. But if you don’t want to pay any taxes, don’t spend. Groceries would be exempt. And the rate would never go up.

if they aren't taxed at all, then the rest of us who make more need to make up the difference. by agreeing that some should not pay any taxes, you have to allow that others are going to have to pay more.

and i am down with a consumption tax. if we can get somehting like that passed.

 

[itsbob]

so how many make more than that and how many make less?

I'm down for less than.

I'm less than, but I'm not falling for the lies.

I know I make less than and I also know I'm going to end up paying more in taxes if Obama gets elected.

ANyone that believes they are going to be paying less in taxes if he gets elected give me a call, I got a bridge to sell you.

 

[itsbob]

Stop.

So the waitress is making $20,000 a year and she pays 15%, or $3000.

You, at $100,000, will be paying 28%, or $28,000.

More than 9x more than she pays, even though you only make 5x what she makes.

She's not paying anywhere near as big a percentage as you.

AT 20k she's not paying ANY tax, and in fact will get more refunded to her at the end of the year than she paid in.

AND she's now going to get a tax cut?? HUH!??

 

[itsbob]

dude, i am a republican, i am just realistic.

i dont think it is fair that a mother working as a waitress making 20k/year should have to pay as big a percent as me.
neither should the kid who is taking loans to get through college while working as a laborer or at the book store.

Neither one of them actually pays anything in taxes, and she probably gets more back than she puts in at the end of the year.

How do you suggest we give a tax cut to someone that doesn't pay taxes?

 

[tommyjones]

I'm less than, but I'm not falling for the lies.

I know I make less than and I also know I'm going to end up paying more in taxes if Obama gets elected.

ANyone that believes they are going to be paying less in taxes if he gets elected give me a call, I got a bridge to sell you.

you dont have to tell me. when it comes to taxes its all lies.

i am willing to bet under either guy my taxes will go up, or i will be out of pocket in some other way.

 

[itsbob]

you dont have to tell me. when it comes to taxes its all lies.

i am willing to bet under either guy my taxes will go up, or i will be out of pocket in some other way.

Exactly right, but one of them is promising tax cuts to 95% of the population and people are inhaling it like it's crack.

 

[tommyjones]

Exactly right, but one of them is promising tax cuts to 95% of the population and people are inhaling it like it's crack.

and they are both promising a healthcare system that will likely go the way hillary's did :shurg:

 

[PsyOps]

if they aren't taxed at all, then the rest of us who make more need to make up the difference. by agreeing that some should not pay any taxes, you have to allow that others are going to have to pay more.

Make up the difference of what, our government's out-of-control spending? You want to talk about fair, how about our government stop spending grotesque amounts of money on garbage like the breeding habits of North Dakota bears, or researching the flavor of various Chinese green tea.

You saw the percentages I gave you… the top 50% of wage earners already pay just 3 percentage point below 100% of the federal dollars. You’d be more satisfied that they pay all 100%?

and i am down with a consumption tax. if we can get somehting like that passed

It wont because it takes the power out of the government’s hands to manipulate what we earn.

 

[itsbob]

and they are both promising a healthcare system that will likely go the way hillary's did :shurg:

I don't think McCain is actually going to change the Medical System. He came up with something because people were asking, but in the end I'd bet he doesn't do any of it.

Obama's plan is already in use.. check out Massachusetts Health and Insurance system, he just wants to institute that failure on the national level.