The Basics of Color For breeders
- Thread starter happyappygirl
- Start date
TCF42
yeeeeeee!
Oh yeah -- Champagne is one of four known dilution genes (the others being creme, dun, and the silver gene) and is a simple dominant dilution gene. This means that atleast one champagne parent is needed to make a champagne foal. Even in homozygous form though it will not override gray. Gray is the almighty powerful!
Phyxius
Zoooooooom
See, I've read so many conflicting opinions on champange and it's strength. Some places say no matter what the Champange will show, one gene or two against ANY color. It's dominate, dilute, and color modifiing.
http://www.ichregistry.com/
http://www.ichregistry.com/gray.htm
http://www.ichregistry.com/
http://www.ichregistry.com/gray.htm
TCF42
yeeeeeee!
Opinions are simply opinions until proven fact!
If that were the case just because it is dominant, dilute, and color modifying then colors like buckskins, palominos, duns, tobianos (to name a few) wouldn't let gray override them either. Creme and dun are dominant dilutes for sure, so they are in the same boat as champagne.
If champagne were invincible to grey, then that horse would not be the shade of grey it is now. The horse's coat will eventually grey out white.. (whether or not it gets there before it dies, who knows.. the greying process can be varying speeds on specific breeds -- like Percherons it tends to take a longer time whereas Andalusians will usually grey out to white pretty quickly) ..however the freckles of the muzzle and on the privates will stay there. And since gray is also a dominant gene, that may be why there is so much coat freckling and the horse appears to still have color... just looks like champagne and gray had a little fight on who gets to shade the horse! (But of course in the end grey wins/will win..
)
I'm not too familiar with any of their[scientists] progress with the gene, and just know the basics I suppose, but the champagne not letting grey override theory has just been disproven by those photos. So, I think I may be able to safely say... that the people with those opinions of champagne not letting grey take over are WRONG!
If that were the case just because it is dominant, dilute, and color modifying then colors like buckskins, palominos, duns, tobianos (to name a few) wouldn't let gray override them either. Creme and dun are dominant dilutes for sure, so they are in the same boat as champagne.
If champagne were invincible to grey, then that horse would not be the shade of grey it is now. The horse's coat will eventually grey out white.. (whether or not it gets there before it dies, who knows.. the greying process can be varying speeds on specific breeds -- like Percherons it tends to take a longer time whereas Andalusians will usually grey out to white pretty quickly) ..however the freckles of the muzzle and on the privates will stay there. And since gray is also a dominant gene, that may be why there is so much coat freckling and the horse appears to still have color... just looks like champagne and gray had a little fight on who gets to shade the horse! (But of course in the end grey wins/will win..
) I'm not too familiar with any of their[scientists] progress with the gene, and just know the basics I suppose, but the champagne not letting grey override theory has just been disproven by those photos. So, I think I may be able to safely say... that the people with those opinions of champagne not letting grey take over are WRONG!
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appendixqh
Silence!!! I Kill You!!!
Last weekend I just sold a mare that was a dunalino. She looked like a palomino, but she has the primitive dun markings with a dorsal stripe and leg barring. She was very cool looking.
Also, I have a filly that is a buckskin, but is registered grey because she is shedding out grey. When she is of breeding age she should be interesting because she carries the creme and the grey genes. I love messing with color!
Also, I have a filly that is a buckskin, but is registered grey because she is shedding out grey. When she is of breeding age she should be interesting because she carries the creme and the grey genes. I love messing with color!
Phyxius
Zoooooooom
Actually neither one of those horses has "greyed" out. Champange horses are born dark and lighten with age. Both of those horses are still "cream" colored with fleabitten spots. The flea bitten spots are presumed to be there because of the gray. The horses were even darker as foals than normal champange horses.
But, what grey horse looks like this?
http://www.ichregistry.com/images/Grace_face_2.jpg
Also, the equinecolor.com site refers people to the ichregistry.com site for information.
But, what grey horse looks like this?
http://www.ichregistry.com/images/Grace_face_2.jpg
Also, the equinecolor.com site refers people to the ichregistry.com site for information.
TCF42
yeeeeeee!
No, I wouldn't say they have greyed out completely but they are certainly in the process. Fleabitten spots are more or less a stage in the greying process.
That picture looks like that horse is very much so grey. I can see the fleabitten spots, but I don't see how that horse could still be considered a creme color.
Now with this link (http://www.ichregistry.com/gray.htm) I could see that top horse serving what you're saying.. but, the point is that the grey is STILL taking (or trying to take) over and still has an effect on the coat.. I'd like to see what that horse would look like a few years down the road, if it got any lighter or not.
That picture looks like that horse is very much so grey. I can see the fleabitten spots, but I don't see how that horse could still be considered a creme color.
Now with this link (http://www.ichregistry.com/gray.htm) I could see that top horse serving what you're saying.. but, the point is that the grey is STILL taking (or trying to take) over and still has an effect on the coat.. I'd like to see what that horse would look like a few years down the road, if it got any lighter or not.
So? lol.
happyappygirl
Rocky Mountain High!!
I sent a link to the U of Davis where you can send in tail hairs and get DNA color typing so you'll know exactly what you have an what he'll produce, it's cheap information Paso.Pasofever said:
I sent in hairs on my red mare, and my silver dapple buckskin mare. The SD buckskin is extremely rare, and i'm happy to have her, but i want to confirm her color by DNA. she's registered chocolate with mixed m/t. I want to change her registered color to accurately reflect it, but mostly i want to breed for buckskins and palominos and don't want cremellos or pearlinos, so i need to find out exactly what she carries. i don't think she carries red which is fine and why i bought a sorrel (beautiful copper colored) mare already in foal to a buckskin.
depending on the sorrel's base colors, black, agouti and creme factors, i should be able to guess what she'll foal next year. but we'll see. I do so want a palomino, but with my luck i'll get the silver dapple buckskin, who looks like a dirty palomino or chocolate with mixed m/t...not like a true palomino.
I LOVE the color thing too, but you can get some FUGLY-muddy colors if you're not careful
TCF42
yeeeeeee!
That's just countershading (the dorsal), and unless he has atleast one dun parent then he definitely is not dun, so I wouldn't bother to test (unless you really, really want to know lol). My Thoroughbred filly has a nice dorsal stripe like that too... don't think I have a a picture though.
I didn't know geldings could reproduce!
(j/k)Then get a cremello stud that is homozygous for agouti or get a perlino stud that is heterozygous for black. It'll probably be more efficient that way, but I'm sure there is a good market for quality cremellos and perlinos if you do end up getting them.
