The Invasion that is underway:

[ItalianScallion]

What I'm discussing is the fact that you just said in a nutshell: "My way is the right way, and your way is the wrong way". Yet, you take umberage (or however you want to phrase it) when a Christian does the same thing.

I've been saying this, in so many words, since I got on here. They really do not see that they're doing this! It's caused by a refusal to listen to the truth (and pride).

You attempted to claim how intolerant Atheists are with your "Look at all the Christian Bashing threads on here", you further attempted to strenghthen your premise by stating what kind of bashing took place.
Unfortunately your premise didnt hold up under scrutiny. Kinda like YOUR sharia post . The Threads you thought supported you were mainly Christians bashing xxxx (mainly Christians oddly enough). WIth that one could claim that YOU (Toxic) are making the argument about intolerant Christians (welcome to the dark side)

Maybe the word "bashing" is what bothers me here. When I or anyone tell someone else what's right or wrong, it isn't bashing it's educating. If someone is wrong about anything, they don't like being told that or corrected in a public forum. So they start arguing, words get personal, then it escalates to "bashing" BY SOME but not necessarily everyone involved. The peanut galley steps in and it becomes a fiasco forum and the vultures usually jump on me as the villan. Christians CAN be Christians and still be wrong in SOME OF what they believe. In some areas they cannot be wrong in and still be Christians. This is where I start to do what seems like bashing but isn't.

 

[Xaquin44]

No, I don't care a whit about your skill as a debater, or your mastery of logic and reason, and I have not addressed these things at all. I have, in fact, adamantly avoided discussion of these things.

Here's the behavior I'm talking about:

Christians here often believe that their beliefs are correct, and others are incorrect.

You admitted a few posts back that you believe that your beliefs are correct, and others are incorrect.

Which was fine until I asked if you were one of those who inveigh against christians when they assert that their beliefs are correct and others are incorrect. Which you skirted around, but basically said yes.


So it's okay for YOU to say you're correct and others are wrong - but it's not ok for ME to say I'm correct and others are wrong.




(Clear now?)

sorry, I thought I cleared this up.

It's ok for me to say I'm correct and present evidence based on fact that supports it.

It's not ok (well I guess it's ok .... ) to say you're right and present nothing to prove it.

i.e. 1 + 1 = 2 (presenting 1 apple and 1 apple clearly showing that there are now 2 apples)

vs.

1 + 1 = 3 (presenting .... well, .... nothing)

that said, I have no problems at all with people arguing in this fashion, but saying someone is wrong and having nothing to back it up is stupid.

If you are going to assert that you are correct in something, you had better have evidence to back it. Strictly speaking, you can do this (argue with no evidence) all you want and it's 'ok'. It's also wrong.

 

[Toxick]

Ahh so you dont like the selective edit when its on the other foot ¿

Depends on the edit. I didn't omit anything you said to misrepresent you, or to insult you.

I dunno, why dont you go into the post about the Eucharist, and let us know what my first post was?

Nah - the day is late, and this grows tiresome. No matter what I say, you're going to think you're Mr. Sparkly J. Clean, The Open-minded Tolerance-meister, while all the mean old Christians are crotchety old curmudgeon racists and haters. I doubt I can say anything that would change your mind, and I'm disinclined to continue trying.

If its Implied it wouldnt be quotable. Thats what Implied means, you give the impression of it, without actually saying it.

Well I must have said SOMETHING that gave that impression. I simply invited you go on ahead and dig that up for us. But don't worry about it now. I won't be around to read it in about 5 minutes, and I doubt tomorrow I'll be in the mood to carry on this discussion.


I've pretty much said my piece. Which is basically that you atheists are every bit as preachy, intolerant and obnoxious as any christian.

You attempted to claim how intolerant Atheists are with your "Look at all the Christian Bashing threads on here", you further attempted to strenghthen your premise by stating what kind of bashing took place.

And you seem to think that a Christian vs. Atheist bashing score somehow negates that intolerance.

 

[Xaquin44]

I've been saying this, in so many words, since I got on here. They really do not see that they're doing this! It's caused by a refusal to listen to the truth (and pride).

look, you saying it's the truth is not proof.

I could say 8 + 8 = 1834

Even though I said it, it isn't the truth!

amazing!

 

[Hessian]

Refresher...

Xaquin began his presence here...loudly proclaiming the "numerous" passages in the Koran that emphasized peace...when I challenged him on it...I got a week of silence. Then I was told he was too busy...then he keeps spouting the idea of a "Few" of the moslems are radicals.
I really hated to point out Xaquin's lack of reality or shallow claims..but due to those dominant features..he's earned the Ignore from me.
Nucklesack: hostile waste of time.=Ignore
Tommyjones: MPD of Nuckle=Ignore
So Itallian...better to press the iggy button on these wonders, the dust has been shaken off for months now, I'm just looking for people that can stay on subject and write rationally...not bottom dwellers from the DU.
Tox...sorry they bored you..I hope you come back and stay on the thread.

 

[ItalianScallion]

I guess maybe I wouldn't like it if some guy walked up to me and said do what I do how I do it or else burn in hell.
I mean I wouldn't have killed the guy, but maybe a hard shoulder on the walk past or something.

And many other people wouldn't like it either. You have the option NOT to believe him but, like it or not, there are consequences to not believing him. Break the law here in So. Md. and there are consequences.
I get on your case (and others here) because I know what's on the other side and I genuinely want people here to avoid that "hell". When one cares this much about people they sometimes get "passionate" on here. (I hate the word bashing). I can't force you to believe in God but why else would I stay on here and debate with you people for this long? I could just say what I need to and leave. It really hurts me that you all can't understand this and that I'm looked upon as an "intolerant bigot". I mean, sticks & stones.... but I do this out of concern whether anyone here believes it or not. And, if I''m wrong, I lose nothing for trying but if I'm right, then what will you do? That's why I say what I say even to the Catholics on here without reservation.

 

[ItalianScallion]

look, you saying it's the truth is not proof.

I could say 8 + 8 = 1834

Even though I said it, it isn't the truth!

amazing!

I agree with you but, just because YOU won't see the truth I speak of, doesn't mean it isn't there. I do NOT have blind faith but I do have faith in the evidence. I've shown you proof and you won't believe it so, what I'm getting at, is you need to stop saying it isn't there. I cannot take you to a place and show you God Himself but I can show you evidence of Him. amazing!

 

[ItalianScallion]

Xaquin began his presence here...loudly proclaiming the "numerous" passages in the Koran that emphasized peace...when I challenged him on it...I got a week of silence. Then I was told he was too busy...then he keeps spouting the idea of a "Few" of the moslems are radicals.
I really hated to point out Xaquin's lack of reality or shallow claims..but due to those dominant features..he's earned the Ignore from me.
Nucklesack: hostile waste of time.=Ignore
Tommyjones: MPD of Nuckle=Ignore
So Itallian...better to press the iggy button on these wonders, the dust has been shaken off for months now, I'm just looking for people that can stay on subject and write rationally...not bottom dwellers from the DU.
Tox...sorry they bored you..I hope you come back and stay on the thread.

As much as some irritate and even disgust me on here, I never put anyone on ignore but I also do not fault anyone who does. What I DO is limit the threads that I post in. I read every "religious" thread on here and have been really tempted to post in some but decided that it has ALL been said before so why rehash it? Maybe for a newbie I might "contend" for a while but that's about it.
This one was a good one and I really feel good about what we commented on because it was somewhat different from the things I've said before. There will be many other religious threads I will not post in because I really try not to stay on this forum too long each day. Great post Hessian!

 

[tommyjones]

As much as some irritate and even disgust me on here, I never put anyone on ignore but I also do not fault anyone who does. What I DO is limit the threads that I post in. I read every "religious" thread on here and have been really tempted to post in some but decided that it has ALL been said before so why rehash it? Maybe for a newbie I might "content" for a while but that's about it.
This one was a good one and I really feel good about what we commented on because it was somewhat different from the things I've said before. There will be many other religious threads I will not post in because I really try not to stay on this forum too long each day. Great post Hessian!

I'll deal with the 3 stooges first. (No offense to the real 3 "fella's")
You empty heads have the right to think what you want. Like it or not your father the devil is what makes you think that we're forcing it down your throats. You also have every right to tell me that I'm wrong in what I'm telling you about God. You have every right to tell me that I had better believe in your liberal mentality or I'll suffer forever somewhere. You have that right, wrong as it might be. What you 3 stooges do not understand is that what Hessian is saying is true and the muslim's subtle way of taking over is what is going to destroy us all one day BECAUSE OF LIBERAL IDIOTS LIKE YOU 3! Muslims do not want to OFFER us their salvation they want to convert or kill. If you can't see that, get off the forums and stay in your sheltered homes! You, your brothers in the aclu and your liberal politicians are the problem in this country! Why do we need a military? Who the hell are we fighting in Iraq? Our benefactors? You 3 should be tried as traitors and enablers but God will deal with you in the future. Oh and you don't have to believe THAT if you don't want to.

I am sure that jesus is proud of you too......

seriously, just look at the hate you are spewing, and you are talking about your brothers and sisters.


i also find it amusing that hessian has chosen to IGNORE anything other that like minded hate :godlovesyaandsodoesalah:

 

[ItalianScallion]

I am sure that jesus is proud of you too......
seriously, just look at the hate you are spewing, and you are talking about your brothers and sisters.

What took you so long? Your kind usually comes out with those pre-packaged phrases much sooner than this. First and foremost, they are NOT my brothers and sisters and second you wouldn't know hate if it shook your hand since you're sooo full of it yourself but you can't see it! Those words are character descriptions not hate filled words as yours are. Jesus used many of them when He dealt with your kind (John 8). And, even though the actual words "idiot and stooges" aren't in the Bible, their meaning is clearly expressed there by other words & phrases. But that shouldn't matter to you since you don't believe it anyhow, right? Many other names indicating morally deficient people and people lacking moral direction are used in the Bible so don't even ACT like you know something about Jesus!

 

[Larry Gude]

This is real...

It's ok for me to say I'm correct and present evidence based on fact that supports it.

It's not ok (well I guess it's ok .... ) to say you're right and present nothing to prove it.

...simple; There is no 'evidence' at the end of the argument as concerns FAITH. If there was 1+1=2 evidence about every shred of religion...it would NOT BE RELIGION. It would not be FAITH.

You people demand the counter argument be in terms you understand and agree with and completely discount and disallow people of FAITH being, at core, of FAITH.

That some people actually argue that they actually KNOW, based on whatever 'facts' they serve up and you don't like it and want to tear it down, brick by brick, makes your argument no better than theirs. If they are wrong to argue 1+1=2 when it comes to proving FAITH, you are wrong to argue 1+1=2 when it comes to disproving faith.

So, feel free to argue the inarguable, just as they are, if that's what you believe in.

 

[This_person]

well I wouldn't have said it like that, but sure.

If you actually think a person could survive in a whale's stomach (whales aren't fish either) (nor do they prey on peoples (save maybe orca which certainly don't frequent the sea around the middle east region)) and then be vomited onto land, you are a fool.

I believe the phrase was "a great fish", not "a whale".

Perhaps a submarine? Perhaps a species of fish with which we're unaware today?

The story is there, faith makes people believe it - sarcastic and pessimistic thoughts make people think they know better than for it to be possible.

 

[This_person]

As seen through rose colored glasses

As in the days of Noah..... Started off as a quote from scripture - turned into Christian bashing. A Christian asked (see post 3) what was thought about the verse. When the question was answered it turned into a screed that only Christians should comment 1 to Christian 0 to Others

You need to change your count here. I won't comment on much of the other, because referring to Christianity as fiction is seen by Christians as bashing, and by non-believers as merely stating their point of view (as if it were fact - without any knowledge or proof of it being fact, like they so abhor in Christians. Some even consider going off on how their unfounded belief that "Man on Man love is bad, but banging your daughters is good" ((even though there's nothing in the Bible that claims that)) is not "bashing", while an objective observer may see it as "bashing"). However, since you called my post a screed twice now, you need to be corrected.

I did not say nor imply that only Christians should respond. What I actually said was:

People that try and use the religion forum for fellowship are quickly inundated with unsolicited critical comments.

Note, I didn't even say "bashing", just "critical comments".

Perhaps your sensitivity meter is set a little too high?

 

[This_person]

Intolerant of Christians who attempt to portray other beliefs incorrectly. Or intolerant of Christians who Bash a belief for a principle/ideal/or practice yet ignore the same in their own belief.

The irony of you posting this was so great it had to be repeated, just for the laugh factor!

Nuck, most of the time (certainly not always, but most of the time) when you discuss these matters with me, you are pretty respectful/tolerant of other people's beliefs. But, please stand back and take an objective look - "portray other beliefs incorrectly"? ("banging your daughter is good")

"gnore the same in their own belief"? (Insert virtually any Xaquin post on religion here, or any comments on the spaghetti thing....)


I mean, let's get serious.

 

[This_person]

I dont protest Christmas, I protest the Pagan Winter Tree and Saturnalia celebration.

Why do you protest how other people celebrate their religion if it has not effect on you?

 

[This_person]

the difference in debate is I'm arguing with fact vs. others arguing with 'because it is written'. You can't argue with 'nothing' backing you. Or, more to the point, you can't argue and be taken seriously with nothing to prove you right.

Given the same standards of proof required of Intelligent Design, prove abiogenesis.

Can't? Hmmm

Okay, using the same standards of proof required of Intelligent Design, prove that humans, fish, plants, and insects could have all evolved from the same source of life (unless you believe that the astronomically improbable life-from-lifelessness occured several times here on earth all at once)


Can't? Hmmm

So, they're both equally foolish to believe in then, right? Neither has any more "fact" than the other.

 

[Xaquin44]

...simple; There is no 'evidence' at the end of the argument as concerns FAITH. If there was 1+1=2 evidence about every shred of religion...it would NOT BE RELIGION. It would not be FAITH.

You people demand the counter argument be in terms you understand and agree with and completely discount and disallow people of FAITH being, at core, of FAITH.

That some people actually argue that they actually KNOW, based on whatever 'facts' they serve up and you don't like it and want to tear it down, brick by brick, makes your argument no better than theirs. If they are wrong to argue 1+1=2 when it comes to proving FAITH, you are wrong to argue 1+1=2 when it comes to disproving faith.

So, feel free to argue the inarguable, just as they are, if that's what you believe in.

Well I don't have any qualms with faith, but when I'm told that I'm wrong because my facts are wrong and they have nothing but faith to back it up ....

If they just said 'it's what I believe', then hey, no problem.

However, it's always 'you should believe what I believe because it is fact!' .... only they never have evidence.

I'll argue against their 'facts' as long as they try to pass off faith as fact.


oh, and by the way people. If you knew it was the truth then you would have no faith. It would just be the truth. You can't claim to have both.

Well, you can, you'd just be wrong.

 

[This_person]

Well I don't have any qualms with faith, but when I'm told that I'm wrong because my facts are wrong and they have nothing but faith to back it up ....

If they just said 'it's what I believe', then hey, no problem.

However, it's always 'you should believe what I believe because it is fact!' .... only they never have evidence.

I'll argue against their 'facts' as long as they try to pass off faith as fact.


oh, and by the way people. If you knew it was the truth then you would have no faith. It would just be the truth. You can't claim to have both.

Well, you can, you'd just be wrong.

So, you understand your faith is just faith, too, then, right?

Oh, wait. No. You claim it as fact, with nothing to back it up.


See "hypocrit" in dictionary.

 

[This_person]

Thats' funny i do believe in Post 3 baydoll asked for (that would be solicited) comments. You may not like the "Man on Man" comment, which is fine your welcome to your opinion. But since Baydoll offered up Lott as an example of a worthy parable, commenting on the entire Parable of Lott is a critical comment.

BTW why was Lott used in the parable about S&G? Because in the Story about S&G he is held up as a "Good" Christian. S&G was bad, but Lott was good, because of that he and his "Good" daughters were spared. Which is why Baydoll used it in her post.

But to carry that premise you have to follow the story through, this Good man and his Good daughters then committed an act, it was a pretty important one too, since the passages make sure to tell you all about it. No where does it list any effect to those acts, except to say his progeny went on to found other nations. In the Bible, whenever an act was committed that God didnt like, what happened? Fire and Damnation. There isnt any with the story of Lott, after S&G. That is the Bible being Ok with Lott and his daughters as being OK

So because Lott was used, any comments about the Entire story of Lott, are Critical Comments. Believers only focus on the Man on Man part, since that is the implied result of S&G, yet ignore that this Good Man and his Good Daughters had a 3some without suffering God's wrath.

You want the story of Lott? S&G was rife with (Supposed) Man on Man love, God rains down Fire and Brimstone. God saves Lott from the destruction, because he and his daughters are the Good guys. Lott and his daughters bangbang, and this Entity that just laid waste to 2 towns and thousands of people, doesnt do anything.

Man on Man bad, Banging your Daughters Good

Many bad things are left unspecifically condemned. Moses didn't have fire and damnation brought upon him, he was continually blessed until just before the very end. His punishment was long, long, long after his sin.

Since the Bible is pretty clear on incest:

LEV 18:6 "'No one is to approach any close relative to have sexual relations. I am the LORD.

7 "'Do not dishonor your father by having sexual relations with your
mother. She is your mother; do not have relations with her.

8 "'Do not have sexual relations with your father's wife; that would
dishonor your father.

9 "'Do not have sexual relations with your sister, either your father's
daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she was born in the same home
or elsewhere.

10 "'Do not have sexual relations with your son's daughter or your
daughter's daughter; that would dishonor you.

11 "'Do not have sexual relations with the daughter of your father's wife,
born to your father; she is your sister.

12 "'Do not have sexual relations with your father's sister; she is your
father's close relative.

13 "'Do not have sexual relations with your mother's sister, because she
is your mother's close relative.

14 "'Do not dishonor your father's brother by approaching his wife to have
sexual relations; she is your aunt.

15 "'Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law. She is your
son's wife; do not have relations with her.

16 "'Do not have sexual relations with your brother's wife; that would
dishonor your brother.

17 "'Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. Do
not have sexual relations with either her son's daughter or her daughter's
daughter; they are her close relatives. That is wickedness.

18 "'Do not take your wife's sister as a rival wife and have sexual
relations with her while your wife is living.

20:11 "'If a man sleeps with his father's wife, he has dishonored his
father. Both the man and the woman must be put to death; their blood will
be on their own heads.

12 "'If a man sleeps with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to
death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their
own heads.

17 "'If a man marries his sister, the daughter of either his father or his
mother, and they have sexual relations, it is a disgrace. They must be cut
off before the eyes of their people. He has dishonored his sister and will
be held responsible.

19 "'Do not have sexual relations with the sister of either your mother or
your father, for that would dishonor a close relative; both of you would be
held responsible.

20 "'If a man sleeps with his aunt, he has dishonored his uncle. They will
be held responsible; they will die childless.

21 "'If a man marries his brother's wife, it is an act of impurity; he has
dishonored his brother. They will be childless.

DEU 22:30 A man is not to marry his father's wife; he must not dishonor
his father's bed.

27:10 Obey the LORD your God and follow his commands and decrees that I
give you today."

22 "Cursed is the man who sleeps with his sister, the daughter of his
father or the daughter of his mother." Then all the people shall say,
"Amen!"

23 "Cursed is the man who sleeps with his mother-in-law." Then all the
people shall say, "Amen!"

EZE 22:11 In you one man commits a detestable offense with his neighbor's
wife, another shamefully defiles his daughter-in-law, and another violates
his sister, his own father's daughter.

1CO 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you,
and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's
wife.


​

It's pretty clear that when you say "banging your daughter is good", you're misrepresenting what is being said in the bible.

 

[This_person]

C'mon even Italian knew i was joking

And thats saying something

I know, I was just for fun