The sales pitch continues...

[rraley]

For the record, I am not one of Tom Delay's Christian right.

I know, I wish we could say that for more than 60% of the Republican Party.

The Christian Right has tremendous power in early primary states...so they play an integral role in selecting the GOP nominee. If I were y'all I would be thankful....after all they gave us President Bush, who most of you see as a very good president.

 

[vraiblonde]

The Christian Right has tremendous power in early primary states...

I disagree. I think they're just being touted as the new "soccer mom" or "NASCAR dad" - a minor demographic that the losers point to in order to explain their loss.

This must be why Hillary Clinton is making up all these lies about her supposed religious beliefs - because she listens to too many CNN and network news tards trying to explain George Bush's "surprising" win.

 

[vraiblonde]

I know, I wish we could say that for more than 60% of the Republican Party.

I don't know anyone who IS a member of the Christian right, except for maybe 2A - and he's not even a true rightie, he's a Constitutionalist.

 

[ylexot]

I know, I wish we could say that for more than 60% of the Republican Party.

The Christian Right has tremendous power in early primary states...so they play an integral role in selecting the GOP nominee. If I were y'all I would be thankful....after all they gave us President Bush, who most of you see as a very good president.

What do you have to be to be one of "Tom DeLay's Christian Right"? I'm Christian and I'm on the right, but I don't give a sh@t about Tom DeLay. I think you're stereotyping rraley.

 

[vraiblonde]

What was funny was all the tards chattering about the "morality" vote. If the "morality" votes went to George Bush, wouldn't it stand to reason that the "immorality" vote went to the Democrat?




Hey, at least they admit it.

 

[FromTexas]

The John Stewart liberal pot smokers...the hipsters, moderate/liberal Republicans, military conservatives, conservative/dlc Democrats...basically everyone but Tom DeLay's Christian right...that ain't bad for a general...very bad for a Republican primary.

He sucks with me, and I am not the "Christian right".

 

[FromTexas]

I know, I wish we could say that for more than 60% of the Republican Party.

Playing up that stereotype of the "Christian Right" again.

Thats what your hidden message says.

 

[rraley]

You guys can tell me all about how since none of you subscribe to the Christian Right label, it has no great influence in the GOP, doesn't make it true. You especially cannot tell me that after the Schiavo fiasco when your side forgot their conservative principles and the concept of legality to allow ONE case to be heard in a federal court when a state court had ruled close to twenty times on the matter in order to appease Christian conservatives. You cannot tell me that when George W. Bush speaks at Bob Jones University to attract votes. You cannot tell me that after John McCain said that the "GOP was the party of Ronald Reagan, not Jerry Falwell" in 2000 his standings in the polls went from way high to way low. You cannot tell me this when Tom DeLay and Bill Frist say that the filibuster is "used against people of faith." Utterly ridiculous.

Y'all have taken a hard look at the Democratic side, and you have seen some very extreme elements, just like I have. I know that the Dean wing of my party has far too much influence...y'all need to do the same thing for your side and see that the Falwell, DeLay backers have far too much influence as well.

 

[FromTexas]

You guys can tell me all about how since none of you subscribe to the Christian Right label, it has no great influence in the GOP, doesn't make it true. You especially cannot tell me that after the Schiavo fiasco when your side forgot their conservative principles and the concept of legality to allow ONE case to be heard in a federal court when a state court had ruled close to twenty times on the matter in order to appease Christian conservatives. You cannot tell me that when George W. Bush speaks at Bob Jones University to attract votes. You cannot tell me that after John McCain said that the "GOP was the party of Ronald Reagan, not Jerry Falwell" in 2000 his standings in the polls went from way high to way low. You cannot tell me this when Tom DeLay and Bill Frist say that the filibuster is "used against people of faith." Utterly ridiculous.

Y'all have taken a hard look at the Democratic side, and you have seen some very extreme elements, just like I have. I know that the Dean wing of my party has far too much influence...y'all need to do the same thing for your side and see that the Falwell, DeLay backers have far too much influence as well.

The "Christian Right" isn't extreme. Some elements are. My comment on your stereotyping is exactly what you have done above! Just that. What exactly would you say is wrong with having people with a sense of morality on our side? You paint this like its a bad thing. Extremists are extremists, but most Christians on the right aren't extremists like Falwell. They cater to Falwell to support the right, but Falwell does not set policy. Open your eyes and get rid of the garbage they have been feeding you.

 

[rraley]

I am not criticizing their morality, in most instances I accept and live it (though I would never kick my child out if he or she was a homosexual). What is wrong is their belief in enforcing that morality on everyone through a government that is meant to act secularly. Sure there are moderate elements in the Christian Right, but these are people who would not identify as members of that bloc (such as yourself FromTexas). Being moral doesn't mean that you are in the Christian Right.

 

[FromTexas]

I am not criticizing their morality, in most instances I accept and live it (though I would never kick my child out if he or she was a homosexual). What is wrong is their belief in enforcing that morality on everyone through a government that is meant to act secularly. Sure there are moderate elements in the Christian Right, but these are people who would not identify as members of that bloc (such as yourself FromTexas). Being moral doesn't mean that you are in the Christian Right.

Is it not enforcing a sense of welfare morality that the democrats do? That we must support all these people because its moral?

How about that democrats also jump on keeping porn controlled? Is that legislating morality?

How much law is not legislating morality, exactly? Alcohol, highly taxed and controlled? Drugs? Cigarettes? Public nudity? Prostitution? They do call a set of taxes sin taxes after all.

People only have a problem when their morale compass does not agree with what is being legislated. Otherwise, they are all to happy to have it legislated.

in most instances I accept and live it (though I would never kick my child out if he or she was a homosexual).

Can't resist tieing the stereotype in there one more time, eh? Got to make sure to weight the statement appropriately? I have known a few devout christians who had homosexual children. They didn't do that either.

 

[rraley]

I thought that conservatives were against political correctness...I suppose that I have to place a disclaimer on everything now about exceptions so long as it deals with a group of voters who overwhelmingly vote for Republicans...

As for this fallacy you present concerning Democrats enforcing "morality." What you discuss isn't morality, but rather it's a sense of human rights, legality, the public good. These can all be found in a more secular sense of "morality" than in a Bible-thumping, religious sense.

 

[FromTexas]

I thought that conservatives were against political correctness...I suppose that I have to place a disclaimer on everything now about exceptions so long as it deals with a group of voters who overwhelmingly vote for Republicans...

As for this fallacy you present concerning Democrats enforcing "morality." What you discuss isn't morality, but rather it's a sense of human rights, legality, the public good. These can all be found in a more secular sense of "morality" than in a Bible-thumping, religious sense.

Ah! Morality is only correct if it comes from your side of the fence. I see. Where exactly does that sense of human rights, legality, and public good find its basis in historically? Religion. First laws? Religious. First mental institutions? Religious. First care for the homeless/poor? Religious. Come on now.. you can do better than trying to seperate moral into "proper" secular ones vs "improper" religious ones.

Now, its all based in morality. Sure. We have that down, but how much morality is human rights, public good, and legality? How much welfare is more than just morale? They help decide that, too.

Would you like to point to the country that does not legislate morality? Would you like to point to the specific part of the Constitution that forbids legislating morality?

Now, for your PC comment... Let me just call a red herring for what it is. You throw out more and more crap the more that stool is kicked out from under you.

 

[vraiblonde]

I have a question for you, Raley:

What part of Christianity do you not agree with, that you have such a problem with Delay's fundie right-wingers?

 

[rraley]

I have a question for you, Raley:

What part of Christianity do you not agree with, that you have such a problem with Delay's fundie right-wingers?

None of it...I'm a devout Christian...what I do not agree with is people pushing a political ideology and hiding behind God to legitimize it.

 

[Larry Gude]

Do you realize what you just said?

None of it...I'm a devout Christian...what I do not agree with is people pushing a political ideology and hiding behind God to legitimize it.

Do you see the non sense that has found its way into your thinking?

I'l give you some time to see if this is perhpas not exactly what you meant to say.

Man.

 

[vraiblonde]

what I do not agree with is people pushing a political ideology and hiding behind God to legitimize it.

For example....?

 

[2ndAmendment]

True; I am a Constitutionalist. Matter of fact, I am a strict constructionist Constitutionalist. That said, both the Democrats and the Republicans are wrong in their actions. There is no constitutional authority for much of what is done by the federal government including all welfare programs and Social Security, but the politicians don't care. The Constitution is the original legal document from which all federal law should flow, but it is now meaningless since very few judges or legislators test any law or proposed bill against the original meaning of the Constitution. We might as well have a Constitution burning party on the Mall.

 

[rraley]

For example....?

I'm discussing Falwell and Robertson who take a Bible passage to claim that the filibuster is wrong or that God actually does like tax cuts...that's who I am rallying against, not Republicans in general...and many independents, moderates,and liberals have the same problem. The problem is not the faith; it is the manipulation and exploitation of that faith and the faith of individual people to create political power or to advance a narrow political ideology.

Larry, it's not nonsense...just watch the 700 Club (check the part where they prayed for three new vacancies on the Supreme Court) and you will see.

 

[vraiblonde]

I'm discussing Falwell and Robertson who take a Bible passage to claim that the filibuster is wrong or that God actually does like tax cuts

How do you know they're not right?