The science of ketosis

[vraiblonde]

What Is Ketosis? What Causes Ketosis?

You'd think with my assorted failed low carb diet programs, I'd have actually looked online to find out what exactly goes on with the body when you Atkins.

The new version is the Dukan diet, where for the first five days you eat ZERO carbs - just low fat proteins. After that, you alternate days where you eat only protein with days where you eat protein and vegetables until you've lost all your weight. Then you gradually start adding carbs back into your diet in limited amounts. There's a bit more to it than that, but there's the gist.

I just thought the physical explanation of it all was interesting, and especially this Dukan thing.

 

[twinoaks207]

Source: Wikipedia, The Epilepsy Foundation, Health Protection Agency (UK).

Personally, I would do a bit more research on the topic. Having the information come from Wikipedia (a world-wide contributor-based resource instead of experts with peer review), an agency from the United Kingdom, and a Foundation solely concerned with Epilepsy are not exactly the best, experienced, unbiased resources that I would like to see as authoritative resources for something like that. But then, I like lots of proof with my diet stuff.

 

[Bann]

What Is Ketosis? What Causes Ketosis?

You'd think with my assorted failed low carb diet programs, I'd have actually looked online to find out what exactly goes on with the body when you Atkins.

The new version is the Dukan diet, where for the first five days you eat ZERO carbs - just low fat proteins. After that, you alternate days where you eat only protein with days where you eat protein and vegetables until you've lost all your weight. Then you gradually start adding carbs back into your diet in limited amounts. There's a bit more to it than that, but there's the gist.

I just thought the physical explanation of it all was interesting, and especially this Dukan thing.

How's it working for you? I've done low carb for years, although I'm not fanatical about it. I've found it works best for me, low carb-watch total calories. But I think I'm at a plateau with what I eat, how I exercise, etc. I'll have to look into this one after New Year's.

 

[CRoyal]

What Is Ketosis? What Causes Ketosis?

You'd think with my assorted failed low carb diet programs, I'd have actually looked online to find out what exactly goes on with the body when you Atkins.

The new version is the Dukan diet, where for the first five days you eat ZERO carbs - just low fat proteins. After that, you alternate days where you eat only protein with days where you eat protein and vegetables until you've lost all your weight. Then you gradually start adding carbs back into your diet in limited amounts. There's a bit more to it than that, but there's the gist.

I just thought the physical explanation of it all was interesting, and especially this Dukan thing.

Ketosis diet works amazingly well, coupled with weight lifting. It can be difficult to keep on, but very effective. The first time I went on that diet I had a few days where I was extremely tired while my body was adjusting. It's not good for long term lifestyle but an excellent jumpstart. It's essential to drink a lot of h20 and workout while in ketosis. I also was sure I took plenty of vitamins.

That being said, I am going to be back on it on Dec. 28

 

[vraiblonde]

How's it working for you?

6 lbs gone since Sunday, but I'm sure it's mostly water.

I've always failed at Atkins because there's no way I can maintain such a low carb diet for the rest of my life. At some point I want a beer. I need a piece of bread. I'm desperate for a handful of Fritos. And we all know that once you blow it with Atkins, all the weight you so painstakingly lost comes rushing right back.

With the Dukan method, you have four phases:

• Attack: 5 to 10 days of zero carbs (surprisingly, this hasn't been difficult so far)
• Cruise: Alternating days of protein only with protein and vegetables
• Consolidation: Gradually start adding carbs back into your diet
• Stabilization: Eat what you want, but one day a week is protein only day

I'm finding zero carbs to be easier than trying to figure out what makes 20g carbs a day (like you do with Atkins). I'm too prone to cheating, thinking I'll just have a bite of this chocolate - what can it hurt?

400 bites later....

I just thought the physiology of it was interesting - how it works and why. After you've lost your weight and are in stabilization, you have one day a week that's protein only, so your body burns off all its glycogen and starts back to burning fat. Makes sense.

 

[terbear1225]

6 lbs gone since Sunday, but I'm sure it's mostly water.

I've always failed at Atkins because there's no way I can maintain such a low carb diet for the rest of my life. At some point I want a beer. I need a piece of bread. I'm desperate for a handful of Fritos. And we all know that once you blow it with Atkins, all the weight you so painstakingly lost comes rushing right back.

With the Dukan method, you have four phases:

• Attack: 5 to 10 days of zero carbs (surprisingly, this hasn't been difficult so far)
• Cruise: Alternating days of protein only with protein and vegetables
• Consolidation: Gradually start adding carbs back into your diet
• Stabilization: Eat what you want, but one day a week is protein only day

I'm finding zero carbs to be easier than trying to figure out what makes 20g carbs a day (like you do with Atkins). I'm too prone to cheating, thinking I'll just have a bite of this chocolate - what can it hurt?

400 bites later....

I just thought the physiology of it was interesting - how it works and why. After you've lost your weight and are in stabilization, you have one day a week that's protein only, so your body burns off all its glycogen and starts back to burning fat. Makes sense.

I'd really like to try low carb (want to lose 10 pounds before president's day, think I can do it?) my problem has always been figuring out what exactly to eat, especially considering I have an underweight kindergartener in the house who def. can't go low anything.

 

[Beta84]

I don't know if Atkins requires you to eat 20g of carbs a day as much as they figure if you can't limit carbs then don't have more than 20g.

That being said, I don't see how ketosis is healthy. Your body thinks it's starving. You might as well be annorexic.

 

[vraiblonde]

That being said, I don't see how ketosis is healthy. Your body thinks it's starving. You might as well be annorexic.

Bodies think they're starving on any calorie or fat restrictive diet - bodies are stupid that way. And since they're stupid, they take the path of least resistance, which is why they burn glycogen for energy instead of fat. You can't just have a Come To Jesus with them and explain that they'd be happier if they'd burn fat instead of sugar.

So since bodies want to be lazy and burn whatever's easiest, you have to take away it's easy way out. Force it to do the right thing. Then, in time, when the body sees the benefit, it stops hating you for taking away its beer and gummy bears, and starts thanking you for being tough on it and teaching it a better life path.

The body is nothing more than a spoiled child substance abuser. The brain must lead it out of addiction and poor choices.

 

[Toxick]

That being said, I don't see how ketosis is healthy. Your body thinks it's starving. You might as well be annorexic.

Ketosis is most certainly not healthy. Ketosis is the state your body goes into when you're diabetic - and what you're doctor will desperately take drastic measures to get your body out of. It means your cells are not getting the glucose they need. It plays absolute hell on your organs - particularly your kidneys and liver.

That's why the 0 carb leg of this diet is only 5 days long. If you go any longer than that without carbs, and your organs are going to start sustaining actual damage. Likely irreversable damage. Most organs cannot heal themselves from trauma like that. You go too long without carbs, and those organs will systematically begin shutting down. And when they're off, they're off.

That's why diets like these are scary. Most people are as dumb as a box of plastic paper clips - and when they see the scale drop a pound or 10 within five little days because they're eating 0 carbs, their reaction is going to be "I will continue to eat 0 carbs and lose another 250 pounds, and I'll be a hottie supermodel by Valentines Day!!!11!" Ignoring the fact that they'll probably be on dialysis by MLK Day.

Not to mention the fat and sodium in most carbohydrate-less foods are out of this world. Dr. Atkins may think this is a groovy idea, but your heart does not.




BTW: When you're in ketosis, you become ornery, and your breath stinks like microwaved ka-ka.

 

[Sweet 16]

BTW: When you're in ketosis, you become ornery, and your breath stinks like microwaved ka-ka.

LOL, I laughed at the "sweet and fruity breath" comment in the article! Years ago, I made up my own modified Atkins diet and ate only meat, cheese, fruits and veggies (no pasta, breads or other starches) and lost a lot of weight. I exercised approx. 3-4 hours a week and could literally feel my fat "melting" as I worked out. I was never hungry nor sleepy every day after lunch, but I did have to constantly chew gum because of the stinky breath side-effect. I don't remember being particularly ornery though. Eventually I started eating starches again and slowly gained the weight back.

Any time you cut out a significant component of a 'balanced' diet (fat, sugar, carbs, protein, etc.), you'll lose weight because you're eating less, but there is a risk to your health and/or rebound weight gain. That is why a balanced diet and exercise is the best option and recommended in the first place. It won't stop me from going low-carb again though

 

[Wenchy]

Ketosis landed me in the hospital and I almost lost my baby. It was unintentional and I couldn't imagine putting a body through ketosis on purpose just to lose weight.

 

[Toxick]

LOL, I laughed at the "sweet and fruity breath" comment in the article! Years ago, I made up my own modified Atkins diet and ate only meat, cheese, fruits and veggies (no pasta, breads or other starches) and lost a lot of weight.

That doesn't sound low-carb enough to put you into ketosis. Fruits are chock full of simple carbs (especially oranges and peaches), and cheese and vegetables have enough complex carbs to stick with you for a while. Unless you were eating very little of those things, you shouldn't have gotten the ketone breath of death from a diet like that.

I ate like that for years and years. I called it the Caveman Diet. If you can't picture a caveman eating it, you don't eat it. Meaning, it's easy to picture a caveman eating a slab of meat and a pile of greens, but it's a little harder to picture one eating pizza, pepsi or key-lime pie. (or any food that comes in a box)


I later had to modify this diet to include Roast Duck with Mango Salsa.

Anyway, I was in great shape when I was on the caveman diet, and as far as I know, I never entered ketosis.

 

[libertytyranny]

Ketosis is most certainly not healthy. Ketosis is the state your body goes into when you're diabetic - and what you're doctor will desperately take drastic measures to get your body out of. It means your cells are not getting the glucose they need. It plays absolute hell on your organs - particularly your kidneys and liver.

That's why the 0 carb leg of this diet is only 5 days long. If you go any longer than that without carbs, and your organs are going to start sustaining actual damage. Likely irreversable damage. Most organs cannot heal themselves from trauma like that. You go too long without carbs, and those organs will systematically begin shutting down. And when they're off, they're off.

That's why diets like these are scary. Most people are as dumb as a box of plastic paper clips - and when they see the scale drop a pound or 10 within five little days because they're eating 0 carbs, their reaction is going to be "I will continue to eat 0 carbs and lose another 250 pounds, and I'll be a hottie supermodel by Valentines Day!!!11!" Ignoring the fact that they'll probably be on dialysis by MLK Day.

Not to mention the fat and sodium in most carbohydrate-less foods are out of this world. Dr. Atkins may think this is a groovy idea, but your heart does not.




BTW: When you're in ketosis, you become ornery, and your breath stinks like microwaved ka-ka.

ketosis is different than diabetic ketoacidosis..there is confusion..but that state can ONLY be reached by diabetics..healthy bodies have many processes in place to make it impossible.



When done properly, low carb diets are quite heart healthy..and many people find that their major "stats" cholesterol, bp, etc get much healthier. Problem is people do not bother to do the research and simply cut out carbs. Which is not what atkins was a proponet of at all. He wanted people to cut out processed carbs..and get low healthy amounts from fresh fruits and vegatables and eat lean meats. A very healthy diet when done correctly. But like Vrai said..its hard to keep up..mostly because our "normal" diets are SOOOOO full of processed carbs and sugar.

 

[MMDad]

Not to mention the fat and sodium in most carbohydrate-less foods are out of this world. Dr. Atkins may think this is a groovy idea, but your heart does not.

No carb is extremely hard to do, but very low carb can still be very healthy. Lean meats, chicken, fish, nuts, most green vegetables, etc. There are also good products on the market now that help make it feel like you aren't missing out on the good things, like ice cream, candies, and diet soda with Splenda.

Trying to put your body into extreme ketosis is over the edge, but isn't any diet where you burn fat ketosis? Is it possible to lose fat without ketosis? That's not to say that more ketosis is better, it's just the name of the process that occurs naturally.

For diabetics I understand that ketosis is a symptom of the undesirable conditon of low blood suger. If the body is converting fat into glucose and maintaining blood sugar in the "normal" range is there a real problem?

I have been on low carb for about three years now. I lost about 40 pounds, my Cholesterol is 140, and my triglycerides are 90 - down from 900 in October '07. I wear 34" waist pants for the first time since I got out of the Navy 20 years ago.

I don't go overboard with it - I still eat Mexican food , but I limit it to reasonable frequency. Depriving yourself is a great way to fail on a diet, but cheating too often defeats the whole purpose.


All things in moderation, including moderation.

By the way, anyone remember the taste of Tab? I wish I had some now to make my kids wash their mouths out with when they cuss. Much more effective than soap.

 

[Beta84]

ketosis is different than diabetic ketoacidosis..there is confusion..but that state can ONLY be reached by diabetics..healthy bodies have many processes in place to make it impossible.



When done properly, low carb diets are quite heart healthy..and many people find that their major "stats" cholesterol, bp, etc get much healthier. Problem is people do not bother to do the research and simply cut out carbs. Which is not what atkins was a proponet of at all. He wanted people to cut out processed carbs..and get low healthy amounts from fresh fruits and vegatables and eat lean meats. A very healthy diet when done correctly. But like Vrai said..its hard to keep up..mostly because our "normal" diets are SOOOOO full of processed carbs and sugar.

Yeah, Atkins also has you eat crazy amounts of fats because as long as you cut out the simple carbs then you're good to go. On that diet you can basically eat a tub of lard and it's considered good.

 

[MMDad]

Yeah, Atkins also has you eat crazy amounts of fats because as long as you cut out the simple carbs then you're good to go. On that diet you can basically eat a tub of lard and it's considered good.

That is not true. I don't do Atkins per se, but I did read the book.

 

[libertytyranny]

Yeah, Atkins also has you eat crazy amounts of fats because as long as you cut out the simple carbs then you're good to go. On that diet you can basically eat a tub of lard and it's considered good.

thats a misconception. Atkins does not promote that at all. If you actually read the book, he was very into what many people call whole foods. and lots of lean meats. It's people who realized they could still eatall of the fats and still lose that started the notion you could eat bacon all day long ont he atkins diet. You will lose weight if you do that, but it isn't healthy. Doing it the way it is given int he book is a very healthy way to eat and live. the first phase or two is where you really lose the weight by cutting the carbs down really low..but the lifelong final phase has many more carbs in it, and is meant to maintain healthy weight and good health. Most people just don't research what they are doing. they hear some info and run with it.



And to mention it again because I have seen it several times int his thread...ketosis is NOT ketoacidosis..which is very harmful and in diabetics ONLY. Ketosis is a natural healthy metabolic process. There is concern about the kidneys in such a diet because of the high protein, not the ketosis itself. That is generally not a problem if followed the correct way. The main problem from "heart people" is that people take it the wrong way and consume too much fat, and often ignore the high fiber veggies and unprocessed grains they need..as well as natural antioxidents found in fruits and veggies.

 

[Toxick]

ketosis is different than diabetic ketoacidosis..there is confusion..but that state can ONLY be reached by diabetics..healthy bodies have many processes in place to make it impossible.

I'm diabetic, so I've had a crash course in this, unfortunately. Yes, there is a difference between ketosis (which, as you say, is not harmful in itself) and diabetic ketoacidosis - however, extended ketosis, or too high of a ketone level will lead to DKA.

And even if it doesn't lead to DKA, when your ketone level is too high (for too long), you are putting an extremely unhealthy strain on your organs, especially your kidneys.

I probably shouldn't have thrown out that blanket statement that ketosis is straight up unhealthy, but if you're going to put your body through that, you need to educate yourself thoroughly beforehand, because there is a risk of major organ damage/failure if you don't follow some incredibly important guidelines, and most people aren't educated enough on the subject - or they are more concerned about how they look in their skinny jeans than they are about whether they're going to be alive in 10 years - to make the correct decisions about what to stuff down their necks.

I know that I have no room to talk, as some of my dietary choices literally came back to try to kill me a few months ago. But if that experience has taught me anything, it is to consider (at least for a moment) everything that you put into your mouth.

To eat.



True story:

I went to Nicoletti's one time for an office party. They had a pizza buffet or something there. One guy who was doing the low-carb thing ate about 10-15 slices of pizza.

But he didn't eat the crust - I mean the whole crust... He scraped the cheese and meat and onions and junk off the top and just ate that. He left all the bread and crust on the plate in this huge disgusting pile.


I can only imagine what the inside of his arteries looked like now.

 

[MMDad]

But he didn't eat the crust - I mean the whole crust... He scraped the cheese and meat and onions and junk off the top and just ate that. He left all the bread and crust on the plate in this huge disgusting pile.


.

It wasn't a "huge" pile it was only 16 slices, and it wasn't disgusting. My kids thoroughly enjoyed the gooey soggy mess when I took it home to them.

 

[Toxick]

I have been on low carb for about three years now. I lost about 40 pounds, my Cholesterol is 140, and my triglycerides are 90 - down from 900 in October '07. I wear 34" waist pants for the first time since I got out of the Navy 20 years ago.

Losing 40 pounds over the course of three years sounds like you're being very smart about it.

By the way, anyone remember the taste of Tab? I wish I had some now to make my kids wash their mouths out with when they cuss. Much more effective than soap.

Tab was the product of concentrated evil.