The Ten Biggest Lies about Smoke & Smoking

[ylexot]

burning leaves

 

[mAlice]

You had me with these first three words.

 

[Softballkid]

I must say, jet fumes are rather inticing (sp)

 

[Larry Gude]

Well...

That clause is one of the most improperly interpreted phrases in the entire U.S. Constitution. Only liberals read it so that government has the power to help/control individuals. Go back to the Federalist Papers and what the founders said of that clause and you will find that that the way it is used today is not what they had in mind.

Alexander Hamilton on 'promoting the general welfare':

``The terms `general Welfare' were doubtless intended to signify more than was expressed or imported in those which Preceded; otherwise, numerous exigencies incident to the affairs of a nation would have been left without a provision. The phrase is as comprehensive as any that could have been used; because it was not fit that the constitutional authority of the Union to appropriate its revenues should have been restricted within narrower limit than the `General Welfare' and because this necessarily embraces a vast variety of particulars, which are susceptible neither of specification or of definition.''

More Hamilton:

Hamilton declared unequivocally that the Federal government had the right to promote manufactures under the General Welfare Clause of Article I, Section 8. The objects for which Congress can raise money, Hamilton explained, ``are no less comprehensive then the payment of the Public debts, and providing for the common defense and the general Welfare.''

Alex again:

it is left to the discretion of the legislature to determine what matters concern the general welfare, adding: ``And there seems to be no room for a doubt that whatever concerns the general interests of {Learning,} of {Agriculture,} of {Manufactures,} and of {Commerce,} are within the sphere of the national Councils, {as far as regards an application of money.}

I fail to see where the general health of the public is off limits to federal interest, at least based on Hamilton. I see the converse.

Your turn.

 

[pixiegirl]

I'm not a good smoker. I'm a less than half pack a day pure habitual smoker. One in the morning, in the car on my way to and home from work, maybe one in the evening and one right before bed. I don't smoke in my house and can not smoke in the car w/out the window open. I can not be contained in a small space with smoke without getting a horrible headache. Any strong smell in a contained area gives me an instant headache. Perfume, fuel, anything. I'm just sensative like that I guess.

The only time I really "enjoy" smoking is while drinking (alcohol). I wish I could get over the habit of it.

 

[MMDad]

Im not that bad

How do you know I didn't mean you are obviously too smart to ever huff?

 

[Softballkid]

I'm not a good smoker. I'm a less than half pack a day pure habitual smoker. One in the morning, in the car on my way to and home from work, maybe one in the evening and one right before bed. I don't smoke in my house and can not smoke in the car w/out the window open. I can not be contained in a small space with smoke without getting a horrible headache. Any strong smell in a contained area gives me an instant headache. Perfume, fuel, anything. I'm just sensative like that I guess.

The only time I really "enjoy" smoking is while drinking (alcohol). I wish I could get over the habit of it.

its ok, we will drink with you till you can smoke where ya like

 

[Softballkid]

How do you know I didn't mean you are obviously too smart to ever huff?

Well, I did a little dectective work, and read the words "sarcastic bastard" somewhere in your profile... but I cant tell ya where, it would give my source away

 

[MMDad]

Alexander Hamilton on 'promoting the general welfare':




More Hamilton:




Alex again:




I fail to see where the general health of the public is off limits to federal interest, at least based on Hamilton. I see the converse.

Your turn.

I don't think anyone said general health is off limits, but you also have to admit that that one phrase in the preamble doesn't give the government carte blanch to dictate every facet of our lives. Promote doesn't mean control.

 

[onebdzee]

I'm not a good smoker. I'm a less than half pack a day pure habitual smoker. One in the morning, in the car on my way to and home from work, maybe one in the evening and one right before bed. I don't smoke in my house and can not smoke in the car w/out the window open.

The only time I really "enjoy" smoking is while drinking (alcohol). I wish I could get over the habit of it.

I'm like you in my habit....with the exception that I don't smoke in the car

If I go somewhere and there is no smoking....I won't smoke....If I am around people that don't smoke....I won't smoke either(best friend didn't realize that I smoked till about 3 months ago )

IMO....I think it is a respect thing....I respect their decision not to smoke so I am not going to subject them to the smoke

 

[desertrat]

bengay

Locker rooms?

 

[2ndAmendment]

Oh yea, because I really enjoy ingesting any amount of arsenic, cyanide, ect. at any given moment.

You inhale and ingest all sorts of stuff that is not good for you. Ever eat fish? How about beef? Pork? Fruit? Vegetables? They have various pesticides, hormones, all sorts of stuff that is not really good for you. Most foods contain trace levels of arsenic. Fish and seafoods can accumulate considerable amounts of organic arsenic from their environment. http://www.nzfsa.govt.nz/consumers/food-safety-topics/chemicals-in-food/arsenic/

Many foods contain detectable levels of cyanide that is normally well below 1 mg/kg (ppm), with the exception of foods such as cassava, sorghum, wild cherries, almonds and lima beans, which may contain several hundred mg/kg cyanide. http://www.doh.gov.za/department/foodcontrol/newsletter/2003/august.html#5

Apples have cyanide in the seeds as do apricots, peaches.

 

[onebdzee]

Diesel Fuel

 

[pixiegirl]

I'm like you in my habit....with the exception that I don't smoke in the car

If I go somewhere and there is no smoking....I won't smoke....If I am around people that don't smoke....I won't smoke either(best friend didn't realize that I smoked till about 3 months ago )

IMO....I think it is a respect thing....I respect their decision not to smoke so I am not going to subject them to the smoke

I'm worse in the car then anywhere else if I don't have the pigs. on subjecting them to it and #2 already gets RSV enough. If I'm alone though, it's almost chain smoking. 30 mile/45 minute commute to/from work and I'll smoke 2-3 each way. I need something to occupy myself.

 

[onebdzee]

You inhale and ingest all sorts of stuff that is not good for you. Ever eat fish? How about beef? Pork? Fruit? Vegetables? They have various pesticides, hormones, all sorts of stuff that is not really good for you. Most foods contain trace levels of arsenic. Fish and seafoods can accumulate considerable amounts of organic arsenic from their environment. http://www.nzfsa.govt.nz/consumers/food-safety-topics/chemicals-in-food/arsenic/

Many foods contain detectable levels of cyanide that is normally well below 1 mg/kg (ppm), with the exception of foods such as cassava, sorghum, wild cherries, almonds and lima beans, which may contain several hundred mg/kg cyanide. http://www.doh.gov.za/department/foodcontrol/newsletter/2003/august.html#5

Apples have cyanide in the seeds as do apricots, peaches.

I'm glad I only eat from the 4 "real" food groups....Ice cream, cookies, chips, and diet soda

 

[desertrat]

You inhale and ingest all sorts of stuff that is not good for you. Ever eat fish? How about beef? Pork? Fruit? Vegetables? They have various pesticides, hormones, all sorts of stuff that is not really good for you. Most foods contain trace levels of arsenic. Fish and seafoods can accumulate considerable amounts of organic arsenic from their environment. http://www.nzfsa.govt.nz/consumers/food-safety-topics/chemicals-in-food/arsenic/

Many foods contain detectable levels of cyanide that is normally well below 1 mg/kg (ppm), with the exception of foods such as cassava, sorghum, wild cherries, almonds and lima beans, which may contain several hundred mg/kg cyanide. http://www.doh.gov.za/department/foodcontrol/newsletter/2003/august.html#5

Apples have cyanide in the seeds as do apricots, peaches.

You forgot the water!

 

[MMDad]

I'm worse in the car then anywhere else if I don't have the pigs. on subjecting them to it and #2 already gets RSV enough. If I'm alone though, it's almost chain smoking. 30 mile/45 minute commute to/from work and I'll smoke 2-3 each way. I need something to occupy myself.

Get a BOB. It's cheaper in the long run, and it gives the rest of us something to watch while we're stuck in traffic.

 

[2ndAmendment]

I fail to see where the general health of the public is off limits to federal interest, at least based on Hamilton. I see the converse.

Your turn.

Hamilton was a liberal of the group. Madison is known as the father of the Constitution.

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress. ... Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America." --James Madison - dissertation to the First Congress of the United States

The First Congress needed to be lectured on the intent of the Constitution general welfare clause. It has gotten worse. Even people that think of themselves as conservative are not really conservatives in the strict sense of the word. You can see that education and provision for the poor were not intended, nor roads. He said so. It applies to the myriad things that the general welfare clause was not intended.

"The constitution of the United States is to receive a reasonable interpretation of its language, and its powers, keeping in view the objects and purposes, for which those powers were conferred. By a reasonable interpretation, we mean, that in case the words are susceptible of two different senses, the one strict, the other more enlarged, that should be adopted, which is most consonant with the apparent objects and intent of the Constitution." --Joseph Story Commentaries on U.S. Constitution, Book 3 The Constitution of the United States, chapter 5, paragraph 419

So, since the intent was to create a very limited central government, the general welfare clause should be interpreted in the strict sense and not the enlarged sense.

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of power. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters." -- Daniel Webster, quoted in Hearings on the confirmation of Abe Fortas to be an associate justice of the Supreme Court, p. 108

Good intended people have used the general welfare clause to enlarge the powers of the federal government beyond what was constitutionally intended. The people in Washington mean to be our masters. Do you have any doubt?

It has been said, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Here is what Madison said about one of the first welfare projects.

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents...." --James Madison [1794] (Pertaining to Congress' appropriation $15,000 for relief of French refugees)

So, you being a liberal conservative and me being a strict constructionist are at odds. You side with Hamilton and I with Madison. Liberal vs. true conservative.

 

[Tonio]

Why do you think many people are so passionate about the smoking issue, as opposed to other issues involving governmental intrusion into people's lives? I tend to lean in favor of the individual on this issue, but mostly as a matter of principle.

I feel the same way about helmet laws. Riding helmetless seems ridiculously dangerous to me. At the same time, if people won't take proper steps on their own to protect themselves, maybe government shouldn't get involved at all. To me, a helmet law seems like an odd choice to make a stand about personal freedom.

Maybe my opinion on these issues isn't worth anything, since I have no experience in either area.

 

[2ndAmendment]

It is not the smoking issue with me. It is government sticking its ugly head into everything.