T
toppick08
Guest
I was told as a youth that since I was Methodist...I was bound for Hell, by my Catholic friends........:shrug:
The True Churh is the Catholic Church, of course.
- Thread starter Highlander
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I was told as a youth that since I was Methodist...I was bound for Hell, by my Catholic friends........:shrug:
PsyOps
Pixelated
I think this a fundamental misunderstanding of what Jesus meant by “The Church”. Why do you think Jesus predicted (which came true) the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem? He was stating that it isn’t the buildings or structures that makes the church; it’s the faith. The one true Church is that which follows Christ and his teachings.
Historically the first Church was called “The Way” found in Acts 9:2, 18:26, 19:9, 19:23, 22:4, 24:14, and 24:22. The Catholic Church may be some derivative this Way, but it certainly isn’t the first and certainly isn’t THE one true church. And I certainly don’t find anywhere where Jesus declared the Catholic church as the only true Church.
I’m not sure I really ever got an answer to this… If you are not a member of the Catholic Church, but are a member of some other Christian Church, are you not saved?
itsbob
I bowl overhand
P.S. I am a fool....for Christ and I open my mouth and prove it daily.
Actually, if what you say is true, you should shut your mouth, and go find a closet to pray in, in quiet, solitude and reverence..
Jesus nor God want you to share you views, nor hear your prayers shouted from the rooftop.. but to hear a whisper from the darkness from a contrite spirit, not an arrogant one.
BUT, if you are right that God exists, and Jesus is the way, I'll guess you'll find out the error of your ways soon enough.
PsyOps
Pixelated
I think God wants His believers to share our views. I believe He wants us to do it in a gentle manner though. If we live our lives as an example, this works far better in attracting new believers than shoving our beliefs down someone's throat through what we say:
But God (through His Word) commands us to preach His Gospel through words:
Some feel more compelled to assert their than others. Some are forceful about it, others aren't. I think God wants us to spread His word, but do it in a gentle way.
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Im_Me
Active Member
This kind of discussion always saddens me.
The fundamental teaching of Jesus is love. Simply love. To love one another is so fundamental to our spiritual salvation that is transends any discussion of church tenets or the differences between any two christian sects. We are all brothers/sisters.
I'm sure that when you get down to an open and honest discussion of your basic beliefs, you can get ample disagreement in a room full of Catholics ( I've been there) or in a room full of any single faith group.
We each have a personal and unique relationship with God and Jesus. The ways we are similar are so much more important than how we are different.
Some like white bread, some wheat, some rye...The importance is only that we are fed. Similarly, with faith: we need to concentrate on what uplifts us and pray for guidance on what leads us astray.
The fundamental teaching of Jesus is love. Simply love. To love one another is so fundamental to our spiritual salvation that is transends any discussion of church tenets or the differences between any two christian sects. We are all brothers/sisters.
I'm sure that when you get down to an open and honest discussion of your basic beliefs, you can get ample disagreement in a room full of Catholics ( I've been there) or in a room full of any single faith group.
We each have a personal and unique relationship with God and Jesus. The ways we are similar are so much more important than how we are different.
Some like white bread, some wheat, some rye...The importance is only that we are fed. Similarly, with faith: we need to concentrate on what uplifts us and pray for guidance on what leads us astray.
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
Thick would not adequately desribe the walls of your mind but, again, just for you: IT IS NOT ME WHO SAYS THESE THINGS AGAINST YOUR CHURCH, IT'S GOD. One day He'll correct you but, for now, Dominus vobiscum!
Actually, you're incorrect, but if I do things the Bible way, I'm safe. Just because you haven't understood the principles of "contending for the faith" doesn't mean I'm doing them wrong.
Why don't you try Christianity on for size? If you don't like it, the devil will gladly take you back....
Great another "feel good, never refute another belief system, we're all God's children" forumite...........uh, Hi ME! Welcome to the spiritual war zone. I will say however that, if you only like "feel good" Christianity, this isn't the place for you.
You "feel good" people are the reason that America is so screwed up! If you all had spoken out and stood up for Christianity when prayer, Bible readings and the 10 commandments were taken out of schools and abortion was allowed, we wouldn't have allowed liberals to gain control of this country and run it into the ground as they are today!!
And, are you soooo blind that you can't see the "love"??? How have you missed the point? Telling someone the PROPER way to Heaven (and there's only one way) is not hate speech. I'd rather tell someone and have them hate me for it, than to NOT tell them and have them hate me for not telling them about it on Judgment Day.
None of you commenters have apparently read the entire Bible or you would have seen the way God and His people dealt with detractors of the Way.
And, we are NOT all brothers and sisters. John & Paul make that clear (and I'm not speaking about 2 of the Beatles).
And, we DO NOT each have a relationship with God. Are you Oprah????
My disagreements here seldom have to do with disputable, "secondary" Bible issues. The main doctrines I refute are the ones that determine if one gets into Heaven or not. We can disagree all day long on the others.
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
You've described me to a "T". I consider myself a Bible believing Christian.
I follow no denomination or church group. I was raised as a Catholic until I was 17, deserted God for the next 17 years, got saved in 1989, went Baptist for 7 years then left the organized church completely in 1997 to pursue a "street" type ministry.
Im_Me
Active Member
Spiritual war Zone…. ICK! And HUH?
I didn’t make up that love is important to Jesus, or get it from Oprah. I got it from His own words. The following passage came directly to my mind as I read the many replies in this thread where one called the other goofy and others worse things for their disagreement. It appears that many have forgotten this:
“[From the NIV version of the bible in the book of Mark Chapter 12]
“28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"
29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'[f] 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[g]There is no commandment greater than these."
32"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."
34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.”
What are you FOR ItScal? I reviewed your profile and visited your Homepage. I didn’t see that you had started any religious threads…Mostly home improvement ones. Your replies to other religious threads (I didn’t read them all) always seem to be…Well, mostly short on Love, and similarly short on creed.
I checked out the website you list on your profile. Seems like an open group that reads the Word and discusses it. Are you always in unison as you discuss the Word? How do you handle disagreement?
Your general attitude and your latest reply indicate you are the are the embodiment of a personal belief in and relationship with God.
I didn’t make up that love is important to Jesus, or get it from Oprah. I got it from His own words. The following passage came directly to my mind as I read the many replies in this thread where one called the other goofy and others worse things for their disagreement. It appears that many have forgotten this:
“[From the NIV version of the bible in the book of Mark Chapter 12]
“28One of the teachers of the law came and heard them debating. Noticing that Jesus had given them a good answer, he asked him, "Of all the commandments, which is the most important?"
29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.[e] 30Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'[f] 31The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[g]There is no commandment greater than these."
32"Well said, teacher," the man replied. "You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. 33To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."
34When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, "You are not far from the kingdom of God." And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions.”
What are you FOR ItScal? I reviewed your profile and visited your Homepage. I didn’t see that you had started any religious threads…Mostly home improvement ones. Your replies to other religious threads (I didn’t read them all) always seem to be…Well, mostly short on Love, and similarly short on creed.
I checked out the website you list on your profile. Seems like an open group that reads the Word and discusses it. Are you always in unison as you discuss the Word? How do you handle disagreement?
Your general attitude and your latest reply indicate you are the are the embodiment of a personal belief in and relationship with God.
Starman3000m
New Member
Exactly right! Just like ItalianScallion, I'd consider myself a Non-denominational Bible-Believing follower of Christ. Except, rather than call it a non-organized religion, it is more of a God granted relationship that He offers to all whereby we become Children of God through our faith in Christ.
As mentioned in other posts, the pivotal point of our faith is the personal account of Jesus Christ and His teaching as described in the Holy Bible. Also, like ItalianScallion, I have found that we can trust the reliability of the Holy Bible to contain all Truth that is needed to know about one's relationship to God and how Salvation and Eternal Life is God's Grace to all who trust in the Atoning Blood of Christ.
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Starman3000m
New Member
What happened to "not a sermon, just a thought"
LOL
You, of all people should have known better than to ask me to reply without letting you off too easy!
Sometimes, Nucklesack, things just can't be answered with a simple "yes" or "no" or "just a thought" without having some kind of qualifying clarification and furthermore....
suzanne
New Member
I have to add my two cents worth especially in the religion threads, which fortunately is not often because I always open myself up for criticism. Starman, you were right on time with the True Church thread. It was great. And I'm Me I liked your response to all the ridiculous fussing. I believe Italian Stallion needs to review the Letters of John and perhaps join a christian fellowship group other than these forums to experience unconditional love from other people. As for Catholics, I don't believe God would like us to judge the character of others or their belief systems, for example I know many Catholics who are saved. I've said my piece and will say good-bye. May the Holy Spirit guide each of us each and every day.
Starman3000m
New Member
Hi suzanne,
Thank you for stopping by to share your comments. Believe me, I know exactly what you mean about being "opened up for criticism" but that goes with the territory in any thread of any forum whether here at SOMD or any other Internet discussion site.
suzanne, I hope that you would stop by from time to time anyway and don't let the fear of criticism keep you from expressing your thoughts. As mentioned, it comes with the territory. I especially get a kick (literally) out of my friend Nucklesack who professes himself to be a "Christ punching Atheist" (see post #13) But - just like those gravitational punching bags, and as a follower of Christ, I'll continue to bounce back up unscathed and un-deflated from any criticism that gets hurled my way (well, maybe I'll suffer a few cuts and bruises, torn shirt sleeves and stomped on tennis shoes - but, hey, I come back for more!)
Most of all, thank you very much for your kind comments about my posted response regarding "the True Church." It's good to know that you are aware that the response is really not mine but it's the message that was conveyed by Jesus - as stated in the Holy Bible - and that is what is really right on time.
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ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
No I haven't started any religious threads but so what? It's like saying that I've never bought a new car...so what? There's plenty of threads started by others for me to comment on that cover topics that need to be spoken about.
SHORT ON LOVE??? SHORT ON CREED??? How about you being short on understanding? All of my earliest threads were LONG ON LOVE and then the abuse by some on here started. I will not stand by like a "softie" and let others desecrate the Word of God. This is why the world is in the shape it is in. Too many of you softies sat back while the demons were tearing down the very foundation of America. Now look at it. Are you happy??
See how you show your ignorance of Scripture? It comes from ONLY reading one verse and thinking that the entire Bible is that one verse. How narrow minded can you be? Read the entire Bible and see how people were totally destroyed by God in the OT. I guarantee you haven't read it and you probably couldn't handle it! It goes against your feel good Christian attitude. Oh, well, gee, we should only love one another, um gosh, because Jesus told us to.... Ever read John 8 v 38-47? Acts 13 v 10 or the majority of the OT where God was destroying the enemies of His people?
How many times have I read that "we should never tear down another's beliefs"? You all are the devils BEST friends! If there is only ONE truth then what does that say about how many LIES there are out there???
Maybe after a certain point I get caught up in the heat of the moment but I have infinite patience with people who are inquiring about God and ZERO patience with those who talk out of their butts. There's nothing worse than people who know 2 verses about God trying to tell me or other well seasoned Christians about His Word.
On my nightly radio program, we are all mostly in unison on primary Bible issues. That's what makes the group so cohesive. When we disagree, we usually do it on secondary issues and it's not a big deal. There have been a few times when I've sternly asked a few people to leave our group because they were divisive and only wanted to disrupt us.
And you have hardly proven yourself on here as a contender for the faith IF you have any.
Another one....There must be something in the water down here.........
Hey suzanne; how do you know they're saved? I gotta hear this!
suzanne
New Member
It's quite simple. They, my Catholic friends and relatives, believe that Jesus came to die for expiate their sins and ours. Jesus also said, "Whoever acknowedges me before men, I will also acnowledge him before my Father in heaven." Matt. 10:32. Also, you might read Jeremiah 32:26-44. Even after the Israelites made false idols, worshipped them, sacrificed their children to Molech, were exiled to Babylonia (disciplined by God), God still gathered them after 50 years. He stilled loved them, He still wanted them to be his people and He to be their God. They never repented, nor confessed according to those passages and I doubt seriously God sent them to hell.
msqtech
Citizen
James 3:17
James 3:17, 9-10 (New International Version)
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-30321 value="17">17</SUP>But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.
We need use the widom that comes from heaven in our discussions
there is an earlier verse that is important as well.
<SUP>9</SUP>With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. <SUP>10</SUP>Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be.
Christ died for the "ungodly" this includes me.
In Love for Grace
James 3:17, 9-10 (New International Version)
<SUP class=versenum id=en-NIV-30321 value="17">17</SUP>But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.
We need use the widom that comes from heaven in our discussions
there is an earlier verse that is important as well.
<SUP>9</SUP>With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. <SUP>10</SUP>Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be.
Christ died for the "ungodly" this includes me.
In Love for Grace
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
Yeah, ok. They never repented?? Wrong on that.
They never confessed acording to those passages...well, DUH! Jesus hadn't died yet...
Ok! Where's Nucklesack, Xaquin, PCjohnnyB, Its bob and all the other nay sayers who believe that NO ONE can know who is saved and who isn't???
Come on boys & girls! Chime in here. You're missing a great opportunity to lay into suzanne like you do to me.....or is that the way the devil works on you people? Ya know, only speak against someone who threatens to speak the truth??? Oh I get it; it's a conspiracy! Well!!!
itsbob
I bowl overhand
Jesus didn't die.. he lived to be an old man (by real earth standards, not the bible 600 - 900 year standard)..
nobody talked to a buch, unless they ate a LOT of wild mushrooms..
Nobody parted the sea..
There never was an Ark.. of ANY size, let alone one big enough to carry two of every animal on the planet..
There never was a flood that covered the entire planet.. if there was, where are all the skeletons?
People and dinosaurs did NOT live together on this planet.
AND reference above.. people have NEVER lived to be 600 years old..
Im_Me
Active Member
Wow ItalianScallion. You are definitely a dynamic force in your beliefs.
While I am a practicing Christian, I agree with you that I am no leader in the Faith. At best I’m only someone seeking a full life in Christ. Though I’m settled back in the church I was born into; I have practiced with and found blessing in many different Christian faiths and venues, as well as in private study and reflection. I have abundant curiosity to understand more and grow through sharing the Faith with others. Based on your statements and obvious passion, I assumed you had “shared” in the past. Out of my curiosity and since we had started a discourse I looked at your posting history; only trying to learn your position without your having to re-share it. I ran out of time, and now interest, before I found any discussion of your beliefs.
I think we can both agree that it is not a mutual blessing to continue a dialogue. I admire your certainty as well as your passion for whatever you believe in, I just don’t understand your enmity. (Any more than I understand ill will from anyone in a discussion of religion.)
All the best to you in your Spiritual journey. Please pray for me and mine.
While I am a practicing Christian, I agree with you that I am no leader in the Faith. At best I’m only someone seeking a full life in Christ. Though I’m settled back in the church I was born into; I have practiced with and found blessing in many different Christian faiths and venues, as well as in private study and reflection. I have abundant curiosity to understand more and grow through sharing the Faith with others. Based on your statements and obvious passion, I assumed you had “shared” in the past. Out of my curiosity and since we had started a discourse I looked at your posting history; only trying to learn your position without your having to re-share it. I ran out of time, and now interest, before I found any discussion of your beliefs.
I think we can both agree that it is not a mutual blessing to continue a dialogue. I admire your certainty as well as your passion for whatever you believe in, I just don’t understand your enmity. (Any more than I understand ill will from anyone in a discussion of religion.)
All the best to you in your Spiritual journey. Please pray for me and mine.
ItalianScallion
Harley Rider
No need to quit when the heat is on, Me. I came from a Catholic background and was deceived into thinking that I was going to Heaven because I was:
Catholic, Baptized, Confirmed and had received communion. All 4 are lies. I was in very much danger of Hell but I now know the truth and will boldly and authoritatively present it to everyone I feel the need to so there is no chance of them being deceived as I was.
Now, when you came in here the first thing you did was jump on me about my method of evangelism. I always start with gentle answers but sometimes it turns to "fire & brimstone". A sort of John the Baptist methodology from time to time. When you said those things I re-quoted above, it bothered me inside. I don't hate you for it but I can't let it go unanswered. You said:
You're sad with this type of discussion, we're all brothers & sisters, salvation transcends Christian differences, my reply's were short on love & creed, my general attitude is one of egotism and, finally, my enmity. These statements show me that MAYBE you're a young Christian or MAYBE you listen to Oprah or MAYBE you're not aware of the different ways of evangelism. Who knows? The bottom line with me is that, as a saved person, I promised God that I would never take anyones salvation for granted. I read what they say or watch their deeds to form an opinion. Sure, it looks like I'm being judgmental but I assure you I am not. I've understood the full meaning of Hell and I'd rather prod you to be sure of your salvation than to take it for granted and later find out that you weren't saved. I see that as love and caring, NOT judging TYVM. I hope you see a clearer picture of my motives now.
