The True Churh is the Catholic Church, of course.

[2ndAmendment]

The True Church is the body of believers in Jesus Christ; it has nothing to do with any denomination.

 

[Highlander]

The True Church is the body of believers in Jesus Christ; it has nothing to do with any denomination.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I like the way you think. It might be time for me to stop trying to reason with ItalianS and Starman. For some reason, they think they are doing the right thing and know it all. I guess it's time for me to just keep my mouth shut, roll my eyes when they open thier mouths and try to understand that there are some other issues going on with these two. Maybe mental, who knows. I guess they mean well.

God Bless!

 

[Starman3000m]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I like the way you think. It might be time for me to stop trying to reason with ItalianS and Starman. For some reason, they think they are doing the right thing and know it all. I guess it's time for me to just keep my mouth shut, roll my eyes when they open thier mouths and try to understand that there are some other issues going on with these two. Maybe mental, who knows. I guess they mean well.

God Bless!

Not so fast Highlander! Can't let you sneak by with that distortion and lie about the Truth that ItalianScallion and I have posted about the True Church.
You need to go back and read some posts to see that 2A reiterated exactly what we have been saying all along. The True Church is comprised of the Spiritual Body of believers in the Lordship of Jesus Christ - it is not a denominational thing.

Please recall that it was your thread and claim that the Roman Catholic Church is "the true church" and if you believe that then you obviously believe all the proclamations from the popes and the Vatican down through the centuries claiming that the RCC is the only denomination that is the true one. Please - re-read our posts and the RCC doctrines that have been given as examples.

ItalianScallion and I have stated all along that the True Church is the non-denominational body of believers and that was our reply when Nucklesack even questioned our faiths as not having ties to any specific denomination.

If you really believe and agree with what 2A wrote (it's what ItalianScallion and I have said all along) then you are not in agreement with the RCC claims of it being the true church/denomination.

So which is it? Be honest.

 

[Im_Me]

Now you make me laugh ItalianScallion…..

Just to review I never mentioned anyone by name on my first post, and I was directing my words to many; even, and especially, those of my own religious denomination. I focused on you, only after you replied directly to me. So where were you ever gentle in your opening comments to me? Your exact words included that “spiritual war zone” oxymoron. You apparently have a significant disdain for Oprah, though I assure I don’t watch or follow her at all, so I’ll assume that was not “gentle”.

My Catholic Experience is quite different than yours. I never felt that practicing the rituals or sacraments of the Faith assured my salvation, any more than accepting Jesus as my savior at a revival in 1976, or hearing tongues spoken and interpreted at a Pentecostal meeting that same year did. (Believe me I am neither young nor cloistered). I don’t think of Salvation as an event or a symbol or a sacrament. To me Salvation is a life spent minute by minute trying to grow closer to and act more like Jesus. It isn’t quick, it isn’t easy, and it isn’t ever assured.

I could tell the position of many of the posters directly by what they had written in this thread, but not you. That’s why, when you commented to me, I spent some time trying to find your views in archives. 2040 posts are too many to go through and I never found one that gave a summary of your religious mindset. Frankly, what I did see was all sarcastic comeback (a la the Oprah stuff); no gentle anything. That’s why I just asked what your views were. While I still don’t know what your faith is, I accept that you have a point (or many). I just don’t care to hear them if they’re going to be given in your …let’s call it…brimstone delivery. Frankly that gives any future sharing all the allure of a tooth extraction.

Pray on, brother friend. Hope you enjoy it there where, in your own words, things are warm (another amusing irony for a religious discussion).

 

[ItalianScallion]

It might be time for me to stop trying to reason with ItalianS and Starman. For some reason, they think they are doing the right thing and know it all. I guess it's time for me to just keep my mouth shut, roll my eyes when they open thier mouths and try to understand that there are some other issues going on with these two. Maybe mental, who knows. I guess they mean well.

So I'll ask you again. What is YOUR standard for the truth? What do you base your opinions on about God?
And, yes, I am mental. Tempermental - 10% temper and 90% mental...nyuk, nyuk, nyuk....

 

[ItalianScallion]

Now you make me laugh ItalianScallion.

 

[PsyOps]

The True Church is the body of believers in Jesus Christ; it has nothing to do with any denomination.

In one sentence.

 

[Highlander]

So I'll ask you again. What is YOUR standard for the truth? What do you base your opinions on about God?
And, yes, I am mental. Tempermental - 10% temper and 90% mental...nyuk, nyuk, nyuk....

Have you ever spent any time in prison? Just curious? I guess we'll differ on the "truth" no matter how long we discuss this. I will continue to go to the Catholic church and follow the truth of our church while you are free to stand in bus stations, subways, etc and shout your truth to all the strangers walking by.

I'll stick to my RCC and you stick to your BAC. It still amazes me that you think you know the truth, the only truth and that everyone else who is not a BAC is wrong. You really have no way of knowing, do you? Maybe, when you die, you will end up becoming worm food and that's it. Unless you've had a conversation with God or died and came back to life, I can tell you that you really don't know the truth. Follow your heart and do what you think is right but don't stick your chest out and make statements that the Catholic church is full of lies. That's insulting to the millions of Catholics around the world and doesn't make you look very "Christian."

 

[ItalianScallion]

Have you ever spent any time in prison? Just curious? I guess we'll differ on the "truth" no matter how long we discuss this. I will continue to go to the Catholic church and follow the truth of our church while you are free to stand in bus stations, subways, etc and shout your truth to all the strangers walking by.

I'll stick to my RCC and you stick to your BAC. It still amazes me that you think you know the truth, the only truth and that everyone else who is not a BAC is wrong. You really have no way of knowing, do you? Maybe, when you die, you will end up becoming worm food and that's it. Unless you've had a conversation with God or died and came back to life, I can tell you that you really don't know the truth. Follow your heart and do what you think is right but don't stick your chest out and make statements that the Catholic church is full of lies. That's insulting to the millions of Catholics around the world and doesn't make you look very "Christian."

I had a small prison ministry back in 1998 but I never "did time". Why?

I have had a conversation with God and a life changing transformation by Him 20 years ago.

Many Catholics (and other church goers) are going to be very surprised and upset one day. I'm just trying to prevent that.

And, it makes me look VERY Christian. You and others just don't see it. In fact, Jesus was hated for His teachings just as I am here, soooo....that must be a good thing.
(John 15 v 18 & 19)

 

[libby]

To me Salvation is a life spent minute by minute trying to grow closer to and act more like Jesus. It isn’t quick, it isn’t easy, and it isn’t ever assured.

I never felt that practicing the rituals or sacraments of the Faith assured my salvation,

Im Me, I like your style! The first statement is exactly how I believe we are called to live. Pray without ceasing, every minute in every thing.

For the second statement, as a Catholic I have to agree that the sacraments and rituals are worthless without Christ!
My son was Confirmed this Easter season. I have taught him all of his life about our faith, the "why" of the different doctrines, from a historical perspective as well as a Biblical perspective, trying to give him a full understanding of our Catholic faith. He has studied the Bible for years with a brilliant lady who was a Bible Christian and converted to Catholicism about 6 years ago. She knows Scripture in and out, I've learned sssooo much from her.
Anyway, the point I'm getting at is that Confirmation had to be his decision. It is not a ritual to go through for presents and a party (my son got none). For months in advance I reminded him over and over that he must not be Confirmed if he does not believe. That Confirmation is him making the public acknowledgement that he believes in Jesus Christ, and he is ready to live and die for Him.
For the many kids who are receiving First Eucharist and Confirmation each year with zero understanding of Our Lord, it is a crying shame, and I can understand IT's disdain with the Church he grew up in if the sacraments were just rituals.
If he was not taught to love Jesus as Jesus loves him, the Church and his parents failed him.

 

[Im_Me]

Hi Libby

Thanks! I like your style also. I read you input to another thread on Catholic doctrine and liked the way you put things. I thought your input was well reasoned and reasonable. (Hope your trip went well).

I have the same challenge of raising young chritian men. My boys (twins) just finished the 6 th grade of CCD. I hope I have modeled for them that we practice religion and service to others every day, every minute...Not just Sunday. We are active in our church community and lead a religious life (I hope, though sometimes it's more than others).

I just taught 7 th grade CCD and could tell the kids that came from Sunday (if at all) practicing families. It was sad. Luckily, God has His way of nudging us until we pay attention to Him. Even in its subtlety, His force is stronger and more constant than we could ever be. He brought me out of many years as a non-practicer.

Have a blessed day.

 

[libby]

The "True Church" that Jesus said He would establish is the one that adheres to the solid Rock of faith that He is the Divine Son of God as stated in Matthew Chapter 16. The Holy Bible declares that Jesus is the foundational Rock of faith that establishes the True Church which is comprised of all people who trust Him. This establishes a spiritual body of believers united through faith in Him and His teachings alone and not trusting anyone or anything else for Salvation.

Some would argue that Jesus is the wise man in the parable, who built His house on the rock, which is Simon's new name.

Shortly before the events of Mt. 16, in which Peter is given the keys, we see the disciples out on the boat in the storm. To whom does Jesus say, "Come"? Peter! Peter walks on water, by Jesus' power! He starts to doubt and who reaches out to hold him up? Jesus! Jesus Christ is a great teacher, and beyond the obvious literal translation of these passages is the supernatural. What do you make of it?
On the other side of Mt 16 we see the following regarding the temple tax. Jesus and the disciples arrive in Capernaum. Do they approach Jesus? No, they approach Peter and said, "Doesn't your teacher pay the temple tax?" Peter speaks for Jesus, "Yes". The Scriptures then tell us what Jesus had done! He had told Peter to go to the sea, drop in a hook and find a coin in the mouth of the first fish he caught. Peter was told to pay the temple tax for both himself and for Jesus.
Are we to assume that this story is merely to tell us what a good fisherman Peter was? Why is the giving of the prophetic keys of Isaiah sandwiched between these two stories of Peter: in the first being sustained in faith by Jesus, and in the second speaking for Jesus and paying His taxes?
Please don't tell me why my understanding is so wrong if you're not willing to tell me what I should get from this beyond the literal.

 

[Starman3000m]

Some would argue that Jesus is the wise man in the parable, who built His house on the rock, which is Simon's new name.

Shortly before the events of Mt. 16, in which Peter is given the keys, we see the disciples out on the boat in the storm. To whom does Jesus say, "Come"? Peter! Peter walks on water, by Jesus' power! He starts to doubt and who reaches out to hold him up? Jesus! Jesus Christ is a great teacher, and beyond the obvious literal translation of these passages is the supernatural. What do you make of it?
On the other side of Mt 16 we see the following regarding the temple tax. Jesus and the disciples arrive in Capernaum. Do they approach Jesus? No, they approach Peter and said, "Doesn't your teacher pay the temple tax?" Peter speaks for Jesus, "Yes". The Scriptures then tell us what Jesus had done! He had told Peter to go to the sea, drop in a hook and find a coin in the mouth of the first fish he caught. Peter was told to pay the temple tax for both himself and for Jesus.
Are we to assume that this story is merely to tell us what a good fisherman Peter was? Why is the giving of the prophetic keys of Isaiah sandwiched between these two stories of Peter: in the first being sustained in faith by Jesus, and in the second speaking for Jesus and paying His taxes?
Please don't tell me why my understanding is so wrong if you're not willing to tell me what I should get from this beyond the literal.

Explain the following:

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
(Matthew 16:22-24)

 

[foodcritic]

We are back at the beginning here. You are basically telling every other Christian on this planet that they are wrong and that YOU know the truth because YOU said it's the truth because that's the way YOU interpreted it all out of the bible.

Believe it or not, there are just as many Christians that feel strongly about their denomination as you do about your veiw of it all. To point out what you feel are false teachings is worthless because they mean nothing.

As far as I'm concerned, the Catholic church is the true orignial church started in 33AD and all others seperated and made up their own rules as they moved along to suit their own needs. I don't expect every Christian to agree with me. I am not going to tell other Christians they are wrong (except you).

Oh, well. Time to get ready for Mass. I guess I'll just sit there with the hundreds of others who are doing it all wrong. Maybe you should show up outside a Catholic church here and there to help guide us in the right direction. You may wanna keep your car running though.

The main problem is denominationalism. The test of a church should not be size, age, power or any other measure. The true church is people. People confessing faith is Christ as the son of God, Savior, redeemer, risen from the dead and coming King.

These ideas did come about by man's craftiness but rather as Biblical principles. So any talk of a true church MUST honor the Word of God a the ONLY light of truth. Churches, regardless of denomination, who reject the bible are deceivers.

 

[Im_Me]

Explain the following:

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
(Matthew 16:22-24)

While I will note how you deftly sidetracked answering Libby by posting your own question in return...I'd like to say that I like what your new passage brings out. Any earthly church is going to be haunted by that fact that it is administered by humans who can only seek of the divine... This keeps us constantly on our toes of becoming complacent that we have finally mastered our redemption. God keeps us constantly humble...even if we are the heir identified His Holy Son.

 

[libby]

Explain the following:

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
(Matthew 16:22-24)

I asked you first!!

 

[ItalianScallion]

My son....has studied the Bible for years with a brilliant lady who was a Bible Christian and converted to Catholicism about 6 years ago. She knows Scripture in and out, I've learned sssooo much from her.

"brilliant lady...WAS A BIBLE CHRISTIAN...converted to Catholicism...knows Scripture in & out..."??????????????????????
Ever hear of blind guides?:shrug: And the saga continues............

 

[libby]

Explain the following:

Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
(Matthew 16:22-24)

Well, we know Peter wasn't Satan, correct? We know Peter wasn't God, correct? So, Peter showed himself to be a man, just like any of us.
I made the point in my post that it was by the power of Jesus that Peter walked on water and collected the money for the temple tax. I never said, and the doctrine of papal authority/infallibility does not say, that the popes make statements of their own wisdom or power. It is the power of God the Holy Spirit that does that.

Does Scripture have one meaning, the literal? Is there more to each passage than the obvious?

 

[itsbob]

I would hazard a guess and say the TRUE church would be one of the TWO churches Christ was baptized in.

SO that would either be Judaism.. or the one John the Baptist baptized him into.. what was the name of THAT church??

Catholic...no.. no that's not it..

Seventh Day.. nope, not them either..

Baptist.. nope.. getting colder..

Methodist?? Don't think so..

What WAS the name of that church??

 

[PsyOps]

I would hazard a guess and say the TRUE church would be one of the TWO churches Christ was baptized in.

SO that would either be Judaism.. or the one John the Baptist baptized him into.. what was the name of THAT church??

Catholic...no.. no that's not it..

Seventh Day.. nope, not them either..

Baptist.. nope.. getting colder..

Methodist?? Don't think so..

What WAS the name of that church??

I've mentioned this on several occasions and provided passages from Acts to support it. When Jesus was ministering on earth he had not yet established His Church and this passage substantiates this:

When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?" They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets." "But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." (Matthew 16:13-18)

The first Church established was called the "Way". Look it up in Acts.