This is interesting

BuddyLee

Football addict
vraiblonde said:
I want to watch the catfight :popcorn:

Terry McAuliffe supposedly said that Hillary will bail if it looks like she can't win, which is ridiculous because if she doesn't keep her Senate seat, she can kiss the big race goodbye.
Do you think she actually has a chance at getting the big seat? She'll get booted, somehow. Besides, I don't think America wants a woman for president right now at least, especially an uber-liberal.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
BuddyLee said:
Do you think she actually has a chance at getting the big seat? She'll get booted, somehow. Besides, I don't think America wants a woman for president right now at least, especially an uber-liberal.
I don't think it's the "woman" part that will be the problem. I think it's just her - she doesn't have it. She has no self-control - she gets pissed and gets all shrill and cranky. Voters don't like angry, or even annoyed, candidates.
 

rraley

New Member
Ok, I see what you are saying vrai...I saw a story on yahoo a couple hours ago about Bill saying that he didn't expect Hilllary to run in 2008...interesting. I also saw that Bob Woodward says that Dick Cheney is very likely to run in 2008. Hillary vs. Dick would be another race where I think that America would be like "damnit, we have the lesser of two evils again."

I think it's 50/50 if she runs in 2008; I think that it's 90% that she wins reelection (Rudy isn't running, anyways she's beating Rudy right now in polls; albeit only be around 5 points).

Meanwhile, I don't think that a woman will win in the next ten years or as long as there is a war going on. In our society, females are (rightly or wrongly, depending on your view) viewed as the weaker sex and with fears of terrorism, I doubt that a woman will be elected. The only female who could possibly win, in my estimation, is Condi Rice, but I doubt that she'd win a GOP nomination unless she changes her views on Affirmative Action and abortion rights.
 

BuddyLee

Football addict
vraiblonde said:
I don't think it's the "woman" part that will be the problem. I think it's just her - she doesn't have it. She has no self-control - she gets pissed and gets all shrill and cranky. Voters don't like angry, or even annoyed, candidates.
Not only that but her opponents will accuse her of riding her husband's coattails,which goes into your point of 'she just doesn't have it'.
 

Railroad

Routinely Derailed
Triggerfish said:
In that case I'd like to be the first one to let you know that California decided to become an independent nation and has applied to join the European Union. :razz:
Oh, that's old news. The planet Venus wouldn't have them so they went for the EU via France. They want to follow the Conch Republic example and be an alien colony.
 

FromTexas

This Space for Rent
RRaley, she has done a lot for the people of NY that you are glazing over. For one, she was key in helping get one of the largest Child Pornography networks busted up there. Parents will remember that. Those who don't know, will find out. It may not be a big thing in itself to decide a senator, but trust me, it will matter to them. The rest of NY will find out about the real stuff she has done in their communities and to clean up NY. That will matter. Hillary just lives there, and she claims to look out for them. The difference is Pirro has done stuff there and has a record of protecting NY communities. I think it will be a bit more interesting than you think.
 

hvp05

Methodically disorganized
FromTexas said:
The difference is Pirro has done stuff there and has a record of protecting NY communities.
The "insignificant", local moves they make can be a more accurate indicator of their thoughts and philosophies as opposed to the state- or nation-wide laws. Those bigger movements run on the "bandwagon", so any given legislator may just be on for the ride and to stay in line with their party. But if they go local and effect change on something they have become personally upset about you can see their deeper character.
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
vraiblonde said:
She has no self-control - she gets pissed and gets all shrill and cranky.

Gee... that sounds just like someone else we all know! :lol:
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
rraley said:
Hillary vs. Dick would be another race where I think that America would be like "damnit, we have the lesser of two evils again."

Meanwhile, I don't think that a woman will win in the next ten years or as long as there is a war going on. In our society, females are (rightly or wrongly, depending on your view) viewed as the weaker sex and with fears of terrorism, I doubt that a woman will be elected. The only female who could possibly win, in my estimation, is Condi Rice, but I doubt that she'd win a GOP nomination unless she changes her views on Affirmative Action and abortion rights.

Lesser of two evils for who? I think the Republicans would be lining up for miles to throw the lever for Dick.

As for a woman winning I think you're listening to too much conventional wisdom. Or as was stated during a mock debate between an imaginary Democratic candidate and Jessie Jackson on an old HBO political show: "I think that the United States is ready for a black president, they just aren't ready for you." We who lived through the Margaret Thatcher days have a much different view if women as leaders during wartime than you've got, and I think a majority of us would have no prblem voting for a woman, provided she's the right woman, aka Condi.
 

rraley

New Member
Bruzilla said:
Lesser of two evils for who? I think the Republicans would be lining up for miles to throw the lever for Dick.

As for a woman winning I think you're listening to too much conventional wisdom. Or as was stated during a mock debate between an imaginary Democratic candidate and Jessie Jackson on an old HBO political show: "I think that the United States is ready for a black president, they just aren't ready for you." We who lived through the Margaret Thatcher days have a much different view if women as leaders during wartime than you've got, and I think a majority of us would have no prblem voting for a woman, provided she's the right woman, aka Condi.

Bru, I mentioned that Condi has the potential, but I do not believe she can make it through the GOP primaries for the reasons stated.

And FT...this lady is a B list candidate at best; it won't be interesting, especially if her campaign is as easy flowing as her declaration speech.
 

rraley

New Member
Furthermore, if I was a Republican I would be stating again and again that their candidate against Hillary had no shot. Lowers expectations so then 40%wouldn't look so bad.
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
Let's talk about Democrat expectations for a moment by looking back to 2004. Initially the expectations were that Dean was going to win things in a walk. Why? Because the vocal minority and media were hitched to his bandwagon and doing all the pulling. But when it came time to actually vote we saw that the vocal minority was just that, and it was a much smarter, much more responsible, Democratic majority that was pulling most of the levers. They knew that raw, red, meat does not a dinner make, and they wanted someone who could offer more of an entree de' elegance for dinner and they went with Kerry.

With Republicans, you pretty much get what you see. Unlike Liberal Democrats, who tend to try to hide in the "Center" when they run, most Republicans can run pretty freely and openly on conservative issues. So, unless someone seriously falls on his or her sword, the most popular candidate stands a good chance of winning.

So, what can we learn? That at this stage of the game, the Democrat that's getting the most notice is often the loser, and the most popular Republican, baring any major goofs, will be the winner. I see Hillary as a loser in 08, along with Kerry and Gore if they're dumb enough to try a second bite at the apple, and Bayh wins the nomination. I see Condi and Cheney as the most popular Repubs amongst voters (and Rudi and McCain as the darlings of the media but not the voters), so I think that either of those two could easily win if they ran.

As for 2006, I think Hillary's going to have a tough row to hoe. Fazio was a last minute substitute with no name recognition, no real experience, no record, and he looked like a kid asking if he could please have some more... in short, he was a rotten candidate. Hillary was a woman with tons of name recognition and a celebrity, so she won. Now she's going up against another woman, who has a much better record of accomplishments than Fazio AND was a prosecutor, so she's not going to be all squemish about pressing Clinton for answers in a debate. I also don't see her backing down and playing nice for the media once Hillary starts her annual whining about being a victim of the VRWC. I can easily see her pressing the attack by saying that New York is a tough state and needs a tough senator, and if Hillary can't handle the heat she should get out of the kitchen, which will resonate with voters.

Lastly, what has Hillary done for New York over the past five years? What has she accomplished other than get her face on TV a lot? Nothing. Her fame let her get in the door in 2000, but I think most New York voters know that they need a senator who will get things done for New York first and an icon/figure head second. Plus they know Hillary is going to make a run in 2008, so they know she's just been using the state of New York as a springboard, which I don't see playing in her favor either. If there's every indication that the Republicans will hold the Senate I can see New York voters deciding to pick a senator who'll be in the majority and Hillary will be el' Toasted.
 

rraley

New Member
Bru, your logic is seriously, seriously flawed and more indicative of a biased outlook on things rather than objective fact and reasoning.

First of all, New York has trended more and more Democratic over the years from the top of the ballot on down. Alfonso D'Amato was creamed in 1998. Rick Lazio was creamed in 2000. After three freak elections, George Pataki has decided that his reelection prospects were so dim that he wouldn't run for another (he won only 49% of the vote in a three-way race in 2002 AFTER 9/11 and in a Republican year). Chuck Schumer won 71% of the vote in 2004 for his first reelection (Bru no doubt you would say that Schumer, "Mr. Obstructionist" himself, has accomplished "nothing" for New York as well). In that race, Schumer ran against a candidate named Howard Mills whose political experience is about as expansive as Mrs. Pirro.

Mrs. Clinton has a 63% approval rating according to Quinnipiac University with 49% approval from state Republicans. That's right she's even hit even with half of the state's Republicans...damn. This won't be a contest in terms of results.
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
Let us back the Schumer Accomplishment truck up for a second. While I disagree with just about everything that comes out of Schumer's mouth, I have to give him his well-earned credit for being very highly engaged in the political process. I've often heard that the most dangerous place in DC is standing between Schumer and a press microphone, and I swear the guy never sleeps. Schumer is usually the sponsor or co-sponsor of most of the Democrat bills and ammendments that come out of the Senate, as well as being the ring leader when it comes to attacking Republicans. Once again, I disagree with him completely but there's no arguing that the guy earns his pay.

Hillary, on the other hand, hasn't done anything. She gets herself added to bills/ammendments as a cosponsor, but when do you see her actually pushing the legislation through? I hear all about Schumer pushing and cajolling, but for Clinton it seems that having her name added to a bill is all she contributes.

As for your argument that New York is leaning more and more Liberal, let us not forget that Maryland was standing at New York's left when we elected a Republican governor. There's a lot to be said for getting results, and if the Dems don't feel that they've gotten their money's worth from Clinton, there's a good chance they'll vote for someone who will deliver. Also, I think they'll want to vote for someone who'll stick around for longer than two years and not spend the next two years campaigning.

What you see as partisan I see as the people of New York getting past Clinton's celebrity and realizing that she's not bringing home the bacon and isn't likely to do so in the forseeable future.
 

Pete

Repete
rraley said:
Bru, your logic is seriously, seriously flawed and more indicative of a biased outlook on things rather than objective fact and reasoning.

First of all, New York has trended more and more Democratic over the years from the top of the ballot on down. Alfonso D'Amato was creamed in 1998. Rick Lazio was creamed in 2000. After three freak elections, George Pataki has decided that his reelection prospects were so dim that he wouldn't run for another (he won only 49% of the vote in a three-way race in 2002 AFTER 9/11 and in a Republican year). Chuck Schumer won 71% of the vote in 2004 for his first reelection (Bru no doubt you would say that Schumer, "Mr. Obstructionist" himself, has accomplished "nothing" for New York as well). In that race, Schumer ran against a candidate named Howard Mills whose political experience is about as expansive as Mrs. Pirro.

Mrs. Clinton has a 63% approval rating according to Quinnipiac University with 49% approval from state Republicans. That's right she's even hit even with half of the state's Republicans...damn. This won't be a contest in terms of results.
:lmao:
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Triggerfish said:
In that case I'd like to be the first one to let you know that California decided to become an independent nation and has applied to join the European Union. :razz:
Good riddance.
 

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
rraley said:
Bru, your logic is seriously, seriously flawed and more indicative of a biased outlook on things rather than objective fact and reasoning.
Seems the pot is calling the kettle black.
 
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