Those oh so tolerant little liberals
- Thread starter vraiblonde
- Start date
SamSpade
Well-Known Member
Agreed, regarding Tonio.vraiblonde said:
But with Ann, I just usually bristle at the Hate Ann sites that continuously quote her out of context. Even TIME magazine did the same.
Ann can get on my nerves too. But I've usually found that if you're not being a nitwit about things, she's usually right on target. She definitely got me re-thinking everything I ever THOUGHT I knew about McCarthy.
But it's a great marketing ploy. Say what you will about bin Laden, but he is a smart guy and knows his audience.Tonio said:
By playing the race/religion card, he gets not only Muslims but American liberals on his side. Both of those groups fear Christians and any kind of white superiority.
Muslims think we're all going to hell because of the infidel Jesus freaks and liberals think the Jesus freaks are trying to create an American theocracy and curtail their right to promiscuous sex and killing their unborn children.
Islamists don't like the technological advances of the Western world because it shows them up for the third-worlders they are. Liberals don't like white people because they're obsessively pro-minority.
Since neither of these groups have even the remotest thing in common besides their fear and hatred of Christians and whites, that's what OBL uses to band them together. Makes perfect sense.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Why not?
We are at an historical crossroads. For the first time in history, the most powerful nation, over a significant period of time, is not colonizing or militarily dominating international commerce and trade and everything else it can.
We have two of the most awesome weapons in history, aircraft carriers and boomer subs yet our commerce fleet is virtually non existent.
We lead the world in aircraft technology and our war planes are capable of dominating the air space ANYWHERE on the planet, anytime and who is now ruling the commercial skies? No longer Boeing but now Airbus.
Manufacturing? Quick, think of something, ANYTHING we still make here.
We import near everything.
We can mobilize ground troops and their equipment in a matter of days, put them anywhere on the globe and reinforce and supply them as need be and no one, NO ONE can make them leave. They will own wherever they stand.
And what do we get from much of the world?
Make a case, anyone, for not destroying and I mean wiping off the face of the earth, all of our enemies?
We are at an historical crossroads. For the first time in history, the most powerful nation, over a significant period of time, is not colonizing or militarily dominating international commerce and trade and everything else it can.
We have two of the most awesome weapons in history, aircraft carriers and boomer subs yet our commerce fleet is virtually non existent.
We lead the world in aircraft technology and our war planes are capable of dominating the air space ANYWHERE on the planet, anytime and who is now ruling the commercial skies? No longer Boeing but now Airbus.
Manufacturing? Quick, think of something, ANYTHING we still make here.
We import near everything.
We can mobilize ground troops and their equipment in a matter of days, put them anywhere on the globe and reinforce and supply them as need be and no one, NO ONE can make them leave. They will own wherever they stand.
And what do we get from much of the world?
Make a case, anyone, for not destroying and I mean wiping off the face of the earth, all of our enemies?
Because America was built on religious freedom. A "Holy War" signifies that we intend to take over those of other faiths and convert them to ours in the name of "God". Therefore it's not something the US should take part in.Larry Gude said:
I'm content to live and let live. I don't really care what they do in other parts of the world. They can exterminate themselves by polluting their water supply and eating their offspring if they want. I'm no missionary. My problem begins when they start messing with us and trying to control OUR lifestyle here, or when they directly attack us.
Other than that, stay in your hut in the desert. See if I care.
Bustem' Down
Give Peas a Chance
Damn, ya'll flamed me and all I was trying to do was come up with a meaning for the word "controversialist".
controversialist
n : a person who disputes; who is good at or enjoys controversy
Like I said, UT is a very liberal university. It's just overflowing with hippies.
controversialist
n : a person who disputes; who is good at or enjoys controversy
Like I said, UT is a very liberal university. It's just overflowing with hippies.
Texas don't have no hippies. They got cowboys.Bustem' Down said:
Vrai, you are a smart lady. I extremely respect you and your opinions on many issues. Many times you articulate a wonderful point that is defensible by facts, illustrations, and examples....
But, what is this all about?
and this...
Vrai, what could provoke you to think this? Yes, there are Islamist terrorists that think that Americans are infidels and are going to hell. But to suggest that all Muslims believe so is incredibly wrong and insensitive/unaware of the true teachings and nature of Islam. The Quran preaches the same sort of honor for life as the Christian Bible and it has something similar to a "thou shalt not kill" commandment. There is a small group of terrible Islamists who have hijacked the Islamic religion for their own narrow political purposes and they have fed on discontent in the lower class (which many in the Middle East are members of due to poor economics). When we see radical Islamic groups gaining support over there it is not due to the influence of radical Islam, but due to a low standard of living. In areas where the poverty rate is out of control and unemployment is widespread, it is natural for people to seek a scapegoat and when the radicals are the only ones speaking, they soon drift towards them. It's the same sort of dynamics that provoked Adolf Hitler to ascend to leadership in Germany. Poor economics, he says the "Jews did it" and bang we got a violent regime in power.
To win the War on Terror, which is both a defensive and offensive war, we must see that this isn't about getting rid of Islam, but that this is about getting rid of economic and social injustice. This combined with the continuation of a strong effort to use smart warfare to catch terrorists and to choke off their suppliers will ultimately lead us to victory. But to strive for "conversion" would be a big mistake as it would distract us from the real problem in the Middle East.
As for the whole liberals fearing Christians...come on now...I'm a liberal and I go to Mass every weekend and try to lead a faithful and Christ-centered life.
But, what is this all about?
and this...
Vrai, what could provoke you to think this? Yes, there are Islamist terrorists that think that Americans are infidels and are going to hell. But to suggest that all Muslims believe so is incredibly wrong and insensitive/unaware of the true teachings and nature of Islam. The Quran preaches the same sort of honor for life as the Christian Bible and it has something similar to a "thou shalt not kill" commandment. There is a small group of terrible Islamists who have hijacked the Islamic religion for their own narrow political purposes and they have fed on discontent in the lower class (which many in the Middle East are members of due to poor economics). When we see radical Islamic groups gaining support over there it is not due to the influence of radical Islam, but due to a low standard of living. In areas where the poverty rate is out of control and unemployment is widespread, it is natural for people to seek a scapegoat and when the radicals are the only ones speaking, they soon drift towards them. It's the same sort of dynamics that provoked Adolf Hitler to ascend to leadership in Germany. Poor economics, he says the "Jews did it" and bang we got a violent regime in power.
To win the War on Terror, which is both a defensive and offensive war, we must see that this isn't about getting rid of Islam, but that this is about getting rid of economic and social injustice. This combined with the continuation of a strong effort to use smart warfare to catch terrorists and to choke off their suppliers will ultimately lead us to victory. But to strive for "conversion" would be a big mistake as it would distract us from the real problem in the Middle East.
As for the whole liberals fearing Christians...come on now...I'm a liberal and I go to Mass every weekend and try to lead a faithful and Christ-centered life.
Vince
......
SamSpade said:
There are people in this country that think you can make a nice war. These people are the same that want to put the military under a microscope and examine every action that is taken on the battlefield. These people are morons. They have never been in the military and do not understand there is no such thing as a nice war. War is something to be avoided, but if you have to make war, than make it hell so they'll never want another one.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Keep coming...
...by definition, the US cannot engage in a 'holy war'. We are not even close to one religion. We had one Muslim US soldier turn on his comrades. We have a hell of a lot more than one Islamic soldier. Osama ain't got not Christians in his army. Or Catholics or even atheists for that matter.
My point is to let them call it what they will and let them die by their own sword. Osama Bin Laden has turned out to be one of history's great losers because no matter what he does he can not do the one thing he must in order to unite and ignite his holy war against us; define us.
More specifically, to define us as a religious enemy of his religion, ie, that we are somehow gonna be coming over the mountains with our Cross to kill all Muslims.
Anne Coulter is correct that we have 'enemies' in our midst, working, going to school, raising families but she is incorrect in that they are a threat to our national security in any way other than their culture provides cover for a few real thugs. But, the vast majority are becoming Americans, not holy warriors for some leader who has become not even worth the time of day to hunt down.
This Great jihad against the Great satan has yielded one success amidst a endless sea of failure that has pushed his stated cause to the brink of irrelevence.
Why? Because they're wrong. They're wrong about us, about what we do and about what we want.
vraiblonde said:
...by definition, the US cannot engage in a 'holy war'. We are not even close to one religion. We had one Muslim US soldier turn on his comrades. We have a hell of a lot more than one Islamic soldier. Osama ain't got not Christians in his army. Or Catholics or even atheists for that matter.
My point is to let them call it what they will and let them die by their own sword. Osama Bin Laden has turned out to be one of history's great losers because no matter what he does he can not do the one thing he must in order to unite and ignite his holy war against us; define us.
More specifically, to define us as a religious enemy of his religion, ie, that we are somehow gonna be coming over the mountains with our Cross to kill all Muslims.
Anne Coulter is correct that we have 'enemies' in our midst, working, going to school, raising families but she is incorrect in that they are a threat to our national security in any way other than their culture provides cover for a few real thugs. But, the vast majority are becoming Americans, not holy warriors for some leader who has become not even worth the time of day to hunt down.
This Great jihad against the Great satan has yielded one success amidst a endless sea of failure that has pushed his stated cause to the brink of irrelevence.
Why? Because they're wrong. They're wrong about us, about what we do and about what we want.
Bustem' Down
Give Peas a Chance
Sadly I wish it were true, but even Texas is afflicted with the hippie pestelence.vraiblonde said:
Um...gee...their actions?rraley said:
The very high-profile acts of what you say are a small segment set the perception of the whole group.
If you, RR, don't like being lumped in with your fellow liberals and their poor behavior, you have two choices: call yourself something else, or do your part to help stop these people from sullying the liberal lable.
Don't support people like Howard Dean, who calls our President "the enemy" and says he hates all Republicans. Don't listen to Scare America with their lies and Bush bashing.
As for Muslims, if they don't want to be lumped in with the 9-11 terrorists, then they should denounce them. Not only with words, but with deeds. And they should be VERY vocal about it and clear their reputation. Any Muslim who so much as thinks the word "infidel" is the enemy.
Wake up and smell the sheets. There is no end to economic and social "injustice", especially when people mostly bring that on themselves. It is not a coincidence that many black men convert to Islam in prison, then proceed back into a life of crime when released. "Muslims" can be sane, peaceful people. "Islamists" are intolerant jihadists.
But the jihadists are not.vraiblonde said:
What you and many miss is that commandment is only applicable to fellow Muslims. The Qur'an also has passages saying to kill infidels, that's anyone who is not a Muslim. Some sects may go so far as to define an infidel as anyone who is not part of their Muslim sect. That is why most non Muslims don't understand Islam.rraley said:
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2ndAmendment said:
No doubt, you can twist the Bible to mean anything you want to mean too. This is like when the Catholic Church thought it was worthy to kill Jews and Muslims to retake the Holy Land.
And to rebut vrai...I disagree, I think that we can make great strides in making the Middle East's standard of living increase.
We just did a hell of a lot for the standard of living in Iraq and Afghanistan by getting rid of their dictators for them. I suppose if the other dictators want to get gone, they can mess with us, too. Fine by me.rraley said:
vraiblonde said:
What in the actions of liberals suggests that they hate Christians? Are you going to go down the road of we're filibustering people of faith? Or Democrats are trying to ban the Bible and everything else Christian? I've never believed that the actions and opinions of a few in a group of people should be representative of the whole. These "actions" that you cite are not representative of the whole.
As for being called a liberal, I have never given myself that label; it is something I use for shorthand purposes and because my opinions are more left of center than most of yours.
I don't support Howard Dean...I despised him as a candidate and a leader for the party. I don't support Moore, et. al. in their events to indoctrinate Americans about the evilness of President Bush and our foreign policy.
But what I want is for people to stop saying that a radical minority speaks for everyone.