Tithing...

[SamSpade]

I believe my 10% would be put to better use going to local or national charities.

An enormous number of them fare little better. Oddly enough, even though I am not Catholic, I do give more often to their charities, because they usually have very little overhead for some of their work. But I've seen data on some charities where the overhead is as high as 60% - and even where it is low, the head of the charity STILL lives quite well even though he's payed by charitable donations.

In some places, the BEST way to take advantage of your fellow man is a non-profit organization which purports to tackle some humanitarian, altruistic cause.

 

[itsbob]

An enormous number of them fare little better. Oddly enough, even though I am not Catholic, I do give more often to their charities, because they usually have very little overhead for some of their work. But I've seen data on some charities where the overhead is as high as 60% - and even where it is low, the head of the charity STILL lives quite well even though he's payed by charitable donations.

In some places, the BEST way to take advantage of your fellow man is a non-profit organization which purports to tackle some humanitarian, altruistic cause.

True. I like the CFC where they list how much goes to overhead, advertising etc.. and how much actually goes to their cause. Can't remember specifics, but I THINK they won't list a charity in the CFC if their overhead is more then 10%?

 

[SamSpade]

True. I like the CFC where they list how much goes to overhead, advertising etc.. and how much actually goes to their cause. Can't remember specifics, but I THINK they won't list a charity in the CFC if their overhead is more then 10%?

That's the one I was referring to - and unless they've changed rules recently, that isn't true. Every year, my favorite game was to find either the most ridiculous charity, or list all of the ones with overhead greater than *50*%.

 

[2ndAmendment]

The fun(d) of organized religion..

WHere does your money go? How much does your church take in a year? DO they have records you can look at to see where the money is, or where it has gone? I know, you give money with faith, and you have to have faith that is going to a good cause.

The church buys more property, another painting, a new fleet of cars for their leadership, oh and a small percentage actually goes out to help feloow human beings. I believe my 10% would be put to better use going to local or national charities, where you know the money is being used for good. The Red Cross, Hospice... St Jude's.. At least I know my money won't be supporting some pedophile in his old age.

Maybe I'm looking at this the wrong way, maybe I shouldn't be talking out against religion, maybe I should jump on the band wagon like the rest of the "God fearing Evangelists". Apparetnly there is a lot of money in it, tax free money, imagine the life style I could live.

Too bad I'm a decent person and can't take advantage of my fellow man like that.

It is sad that some "religious" organizations miss use the the money given. If they were "God fearing Evangelists", they would not miss use God's money. Those that do miss use it certainly are not God fearing.

I am discerning about where I give. I know my church is accountable for the funds it receives. Any member can get an accounting of where money is being spent. If our church buys any "paintings", they are prints from Wal*Mart or second hand and are few and far between. The church building is rather minimal as are the furnishings. For a long time, the baptismal was just a livestock watering trough. We fully support some missionaries and some of the money goes to help those in the congregation that have very little. Of course the pastor is supported, but he and his family live very modestly.

 

[itsbob]

It is sad that some "religious" organizations miss use the the money given. If they were "God fearing Evangelists", they would not miss use God's money. Those that do miss use it certainly are not God fearing.

I am discerning about where I give. I know my church is accountable for the funds it receives. Any member can get an accounting of where money is being spent. If our church buys any "paintings", they are prints from Wal*Mart or second hand and are few and far between. The church building is rather minimal as are the furnishings. For a long time, the baptismal was just a livestock watering trough. We fully support some missionaries and some of the money goes to help those in the congregation that have very little. Of course the pastor is supported, but he and his family live very modestly.

As it should be..

 

[brendar buhl]

Giving is spiritual greatness. One of the most important things that we can do as followers of God is to imitate him. In a powerful way we show people who God is by simply acting like He acts. This works for many reasons, one of which is this: we do not understand God well enough to describe him. When we talk to people about who God is (this forum being a case in point) we typically end up in an argument about some semantic point or some interpretation. But when we act like God there is no argument.
When we talk about giving we are usually very careful to make sure that we are giving to a cause that will use our gift in a way that makes sense to us. We don’t want to give to someone who is simply going to waste our money or throw it away. We want to feel good about giving. It is almost like we want the gift to be used in a way that honors us. This is totally backwards. God gives freely to us knowing completely that we will misuse and abuse His gifts. Giving freely and with no strings attached makes us more like God or godly if you will. This is how God acts and how we should act. Read this sermon by one of my favorite Rabbis.

 

[RadioPatrol]

Tithing is something I have always had a problem with. Though they still participate in our family traditions, my parents converted to Christianity a few years ago. The Southern Baptist church to be exact. And they faithfully tithe 10% of their $180,000 annual income to their church. I think $18,000 a year is a ridiculous amount of my inheritance to tithe away. And for what? :shrug: So their preacher and church gets richer. :shrug:

I don't get it.

what do you think pays for missionaries and Soup Kitchens, Church out reach programs ........ sure you will always find a Jim Baker and Tammy Faye .... but you see where they ended up right ?

 

[RadioPatrol]

What You Said ........

Phrased correctly: dropping the tenets/practices of one in exchange for one that is more Biblically sound. (Sola Scriptura)

Regarding the Tithe: We do not own anything. We came into this world with nothing, we leave with nothing- Period: we are merely stewards: entrusted with worldly goods until we are called home. Thus, we are giving back for God's use: 10% (by faith) to be used for His purposes. If we are faithful with what He has entrusted us,...He will entrust us with more.

If a church squanders it on lavish furniture, new parking lots, and pastor vacations & condos: leave that church: they do not have their priorities right.
Spending it on missionaries, orphans, people burned out of their homes, runaways, pregnant teens, chaplains in the military & prisons: That is money well spent because it is reaching out to those who need to feel that someone (the believers) care for them.

Amen Brother !!!

 

[itsbob]

. This is totally backwards. God gives freely to us knowing completely that we will misuse and abuse His gifts. Giving freely and with no strings attached makes us more like God or godly if you will. This is how God acts and how we should act. Read this sermon by one of my favorite Rabbis.

So who cares how your church/ pastor spend the money, put the blinders on, and just open your wallet? I'm sorry, I'm a thinking, sentient being, not a sheep.

God's not the one spending my money, if he was I would agree with you, but he doesn't spend it, he doesn't even need it! Man is spending it, on what they think is a deserving cause, and if they think a multimillion dollar yacht is a deserving cause I should be ok with that? Thousands of people around the world have found religion.. they've found it be a lucrative BUSINESS. They live in beautiful houses, drive expensive cars, even have private planes (SOME even have their own fleet of planes) while asking the less fortunate, the ones trying to feed their kids and pay their bills, to pay your share!! You get a welfare check? They want 10%.. or else!!

That's not what Jesus taught, whether he's a super bieng or a normal man, making money off of the downtrodden or ANYone for that matter was not in his teachings.

I thought he taught to be charitable towards your fellow man, so giving to the homeless person on the corner SHOULD as acceptable a tithe (who translated this to mean CASH??) as giving to the church... Or giving to the Red Cross, or giving to the Katrina Relief Fund.. or the AIDS fund for Africa.. but it's not. Give 10% to the CHURCH OR spend eternity burning in the flames of hell.. oh yeah, that's a christ like thought to share with your fellow man too.

This is the crux of organized religion. Some are worse then others, but MOST make more then they can spend, but find ways to spend it anyways.

 

[brendar buhl]

So who cares how your church/ pastor spend the money, put the blinders on, and just open your wallet?...and if they think a multimillion dollar yacht is a deserving cause I should be ok with that?...You get a welfare check? They want 10%.. or else!!...This is the crux of organized religion. Some are worse then others, but MOST make more then they can spend, but find ways to spend it anyways.

I'm not sure if this entire tirade is meant to be a response to my post. If it is then I appreciate the time and effort you put in to missing my point, I'm sure it wasn't easy.

Church leaders should not abuse the gifts given to them and God will deal with them. However, if we, as Christians, stop giving then we have separated ourselves from the personality of God. No, we should not celebrate or encourage the churches that misrepresent Christianity, but the only way Christians will change the world is by acting more like God himself.

That's not what Jesus taught, whether he's a super bieng or a normal man, making money off of the downtrodden or ANYone for that matter was not in his teachings.

Interestingly in Mark 12 Jesus watched people putting money into the Temple offering. Ironically this Temple was run by the leaders who would later have Jesus killed and eventually persecute and try to overthrow the early Church. Jesus was not impressed with the large sums of money that rich people gave but rather with the poor widow who gave out of her poverty. It amazes me that this poor widow’s act of giving (not the end use of the money) was valued by the creator of the universe and savior of the world.

The most worthwhile lessons in scripture are usually the hardest ones to face and they seldom appeal to our worldly frame of reference.

 

[LuckyDog4]

Very interesting thread here. I have to say I do agree with giving to a church. I do not agree with the whole 10% of your income... When I go to church I give $5 to them.. it's not that I am trying to be cheap. I just don't have 10% of my income to give.. I wish I could give more but can't...I know that the churches does do good with the money. My main Question is how much does the Pastor make?? And does he give back to the church or does his service of preaching to us counts as him giving back. :shrug:

 

[MillyGrear]

Very interesting thread here. I have to say I do agree with giving to a church. I do not agree with the whole 10% of your income... When I go to church I give $5 to them.. it's not that I am trying to be cheap. I just don't have 10% of my income to give.. I wish I could give more but can't...I know that the churches does do good with the money. My main Question is how much does the Pastor make?? And does he give back to the church or does his service of preaching to us counts as him giving back. :shrug:

I think its all about faith You give 10% as requested in the Bible and you get back tenfold Sometimes when I have the least amount of money I still donate and it does come back to me tenfold But you have to give 10% from you heart and not as some get rich quick scheme if that makes any sense. It always works for me. I think the Lord wants the best, not what is leftover, like wheat in a barn or something. Not sure if that's in the Bible or I read that in my NIV. His eye really is on the sparrow Good luck!

 

[baseballmom]

I understand Crucnhtime money issue. My husband and I make plenty of money to be able to give 10% to our church. However there are time where I just can't give that 10% to the church.

 

[brendar buhl]

... My main Question is how much does the Pastor make?? And does he give back to the church or does his service of preaching to us counts as him giving back. :shrug:

Good question. Some may disagree but I think that a pastor should make at least the average yearly income of his congregation. Otherwise a strange hierarchy develops where the spiritual leader is like a second class citizen. What he/she does with that money is between them and God.

 

[MillyGrear]

I understand Crucnhtime money issue. My husband and I make plenty of money to be able to give 10% to our church. However there are time where I just can't give that 10% to the church.

Just a suggestion. Maybe you should stop spending it at bars dancing and shooting pool. Maybe you as a good Christian and all should think about these things before hand. Especially if you go to these bars and don't drink or smoke.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Very interesting thread here. I have to say I do agree with giving to a church. I do not agree with the whole 10% of your income... When I go to church I give $5 to them.. it's not that I am trying to be cheap. I just don't have 10% of my income to give.. I wish I could give more but can't...I know that the churches does do good with the money. My main Question is how much does the Pastor make?? And does he give back to the church or does his service of preaching to us counts as him giving back. :shrug:

I didn't have much to give either, $2 was my norm. Then I made a decision to "stretch" because it is the right thing to do. I have not regretted it. I started giving beyond my human ability to give, $10, $20, $100, increasing over the years. Now, I more than tithe. It comes back in many ways. I don't give to get, but I get because I give. Goes to the attitude of the heart. I love God and trust Him with my finances.

The questions you ask are proper. How much does the pastor make? Each church is different. Does he tithe? Ask your pastor; you have a right to know. Our pastor lives modestly and gets a reasonable but not exorbitant salary. I've never asked, but I believe he does tithe.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Good question. Some may disagree but I think that a pastor should make at least the average yearly income of his congregation. Otherwise a strange hierarchy develops where the spiritual leader is like a second class citizen. What he/she does with that money is between them and God.

That is probably a good rule of thumb. Also a good yardstick is does the clergy set the salary or does the congregation set the salary. The congregation should do it, but the congregation should not be cheap either.

 

[This_person]

That is probably a good rule of thumb. Also a good yardstick is does the clergy set the salary or does the congregation set the salary. The congregation should do it, but the congregation should not be cheap either.

That's a good rule of thumb for the upper limit as well. This idea of the Pastor being "above" the rest of the church (ie, the types who live in mansions and drive luxury cars and buy diamonds while their congregation lives in trailer parks) is just as wrong. Just my opinion....

 

[LuckyDog4]

That's a good rule of thumb for the upper limit as well. This idea of the Pastor being "above" the rest of the church (ie, the types who live in mansions and drive luxury cars and buy diamonds while their congregation lives in trailer parks) is just as wrong. Just my opinion....

I agree. Reminds me of that Steve Martin movie where he plays a preacher. Made for a funny movie, but pretty sick in real life.

 

[ehr543]

you tithe 10% to the Lord because of obedience the church recieves it in honor of God and theyt will be held accountable of what they do with the money...... the money according to God's word is to go to the poor and widow's and orphans not as cash but as food, ele. bills and other things. the pastor should get paid a salary and some for the up keep of Gods house.... but most churches have there own mine as to big payments to the preacher and the building fund and other material things. the board members and the pastors will stand before God and give a account of everything...... should you tithe yes I set aside 10 % of what I get after taxes and I know that the Lord will bless..... I know this because I am a ordaind pastor....