SamSpade
Well-Known Member
When that happened - he WAS actually dead already.
Trump
- Thread starter vraiblonde
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SamSpade
Well-Known Member
Did reading on this - by the time they both died - within HOURS of each other - they had long since mended their rift and resumed their friendship. Despite Adam’s comment - they’d resumed their friendship for 14 years, close as ever, if vastly differing in political leanings.
22AcaciaAve
Well-Known Member
The first actual debates I ever watched were the ones between Carter and Reagan. I think that was the "there you go again" moment. Growing up in the 70's, the only way you really got a feel for the people running for office was the national evening news, or what was written in the newspapers. Debates are pretty much useless in today's 24/7 cable/internet world. Everyone knows the ideas each candidate represents, the debates only attraction is to see if someone can zing the other guy bad enough and make it stick.
22AcaciaAve
Well-Known Member
I think Biden offering up these debates is a sign of desperation. His camp may say they aren't worried about the polls, or they don't believe them, but that's clearly a lie. He had total advantage in the last debates. He had no record as president to run on and Trump did. It's different now. Biden does have a record to run on and it is not pretty.
Biden has a number of land mines to maneuver. He might be able to make a case that the economy is coming back. Stock market is gaining, unemployment is down. But he will have trouble when it comes to inflation. The middle class will know that prices have doubled at the grocery store since he became President. Can't get around that.
Immigration has been seen as the second most concerning issue to Americans after the economy. The Biden administration has been a disaster in that area. Polling shows people clearly trust Trump on immigration.
Another thing that will come up is the Israel/Hamas war. Biden is going to have to thread a needle here. He can't afford to be seen as abandoning Israel or he risks the Jewish turnout in November. But he also has to consider Michigan as a crucial swing state and they have a big Muslin population. He can't be all in on Israel because that will turn off the progressive wing that has been pushing the college protests. He is in between a rock an a hard place. Polling shows most Americans support Israel despite the college protests that have been getting all of the news coverage. My bet is Biden swings back to Israel, the Jewish vote is more dependable than a bunch of college protestors.
Bottom line, Biden has a record to defend this time out. Trump knows he can attack the Biden economy and immigration and score points. And what is happening with Israel/Hamas is just a bonus. That's why Trump was so eager to accept the debate platform. He knows Biden will not be able to defend his record very well and Trump wants to be out on the stage to prove it.
Biden has a number of land mines to maneuver. He might be able to make a case that the economy is coming back. Stock market is gaining, unemployment is down. But he will have trouble when it comes to inflation. The middle class will know that prices have doubled at the grocery store since he became President. Can't get around that.
Immigration has been seen as the second most concerning issue to Americans after the economy. The Biden administration has been a disaster in that area. Polling shows people clearly trust Trump on immigration.
Another thing that will come up is the Israel/Hamas war. Biden is going to have to thread a needle here. He can't afford to be seen as abandoning Israel or he risks the Jewish turnout in November. But he also has to consider Michigan as a crucial swing state and they have a big Muslin population. He can't be all in on Israel because that will turn off the progressive wing that has been pushing the college protests. He is in between a rock an a hard place. Polling shows most Americans support Israel despite the college protests that have been getting all of the news coverage. My bet is Biden swings back to Israel, the Jewish vote is more dependable than a bunch of college protestors.
Bottom line, Biden has a record to defend this time out. Trump knows he can attack the Biden economy and immigration and score points. And what is happening with Israel/Hamas is just a bonus. That's why Trump was so eager to accept the debate platform. He knows Biden will not be able to defend his record very well and Trump wants to be out on the stage to prove it.
Somebody on Fox said that Trump needs to come up with a line like Reagan's "there you go again." No further come back. No trying to talk over Biden. Sometimes less is more.
Zingers don't win elections. I give you "Senator, I knew Jack Kennedy..." as an example.
Many times the viewing audience wouldn't even know they were zingers except for the plants cheering and the media making a big deal out of it the next day.
Debates used to be a good way to see the candidates toe to toe, no speechwriters, no marketing team, no message crafting, no editing - just the candidate in their own words being them. Because Democrats have such a poor agenda and are so bad at communication, they had to start getting debate "moderators" that would favor them and do their marketing for them. When the Democrat gets in trouble, the "moderator" jumps in and starts debating.
This shouldn't be allowed. The second a moderator does anything besides ask a question, they should be removed from the debate and banned from professional media forever. Since that's not going to happen, it's up to Republicans to refuse biased debates and set up their own.
Many times the viewing audience wouldn't even know they were zingers except for the plants cheering and the media making a big deal out of it the next day.
Debates used to be a good way to see the candidates toe to toe, no speechwriters, no marketing team, no message crafting, no editing - just the candidate in their own words being them. Because Democrats have such a poor agenda and are so bad at communication, they had to start getting debate "moderators" that would favor them and do their marketing for them. When the Democrat gets in trouble, the "moderator" jumps in and starts debating.
This shouldn't be allowed. The second a moderator does anything besides ask a question, they should be removed from the debate and banned from professional media forever. Since that's not going to happen, it's up to Republicans to refuse biased debates and set up their own.
SamSpade
Well-Known Member
Yes - although they can be a reminder of "who won". If Trump "loses" every debate, Biden will still never get my vote. I'm firing him.
But Bob Beckel did once observe (he used to be on The Five, and was Mondale's campaign manager in '84) that Reagan's brilliant dismissal of the age issue by saying "I will not make age an issue of this campaign. I am not going to exploit, for political purposes, my opponent's youth and inexperience," - Beckel said behind the stage - "we just lost". NOT that Mondale EVER had a chance - he did get beat by the biggest electoral landslide in history.
I think it would be cool if Trump bought CNN, but they wouldn't sell it to him for twice the price. Might be nice if Elon did, but I don't think they'd allow that, either.
We know that - one way or another - they're going to cheat. They have to. They have a demented, blithering idiot who hasn't been able to go through a single day this past month without spouting gibberish and going off topic. Maybe they'll dope him up. Maybe they'll feed him the answers - and the best way to defeat that would be for the GOP to have a crack team interfere and feed him gibberish. PROVING he cheated on national TV would end his campaign. (At that point, it might be wise to do it in the later debate).
Vivek says the reason for the very early debate is a test run to see if it's worth it to yank him from the nomination early - find SOME reason to claim he can't complete the season. This would also deal with one of Biden's BIGGEST negatives - the ball and chain known as Kamala Harris, whom NO ONE wants to become President, and who has a REALLY GOOD SHOT AT IT should he win.
CNN has embarrassingly low ratings, so I'm not sure why they are even being considered to host debates. The bots keen and writhe in the streets over Fox hosting a debate, but Fox has actual viewers. CNN hosting anything is like getting DailyBeast or some other low tier niche blog.
Hijinx
Well-Known Member
It's no secret why Biden wants CNN to hold the debates, and why he likes the people CNN picked as moderators.
Actually i am surprised that Rachel Maddow isn't a moderator.
This could be a way for Democrats to dump Biden and Kamala, but that's doubtable.
I still don't think it will actually come off.
Actually i am surprised that Rachel Maddow isn't a moderator.
This could be a way for Democrats to dump Biden and Kamala, but that's doubtable.
I still don't think it will actually come off.