I haven't seen this, either. Can you cite your source or is this something Olbermann made up?AndyMarquisLIVE said:
TV and Torture...
- Thread starter Larry Gude
- Start date
Tonio
Asperger's Poster Child
SamSpade said:
I had read that neo-conservatives were more internationalist than their older colleagues, some of whom (like Pat Buchanan) lean toward isolationism. I suspect liberals use the term as a pejorative because they believe that Paul Wolfowitz and others advocate interventionism.
Your last sentence paints a painful picture.
Tonio said:
Years ago when I was in a religious cult, it was painful to listen to starry-eyed nitwit followers who completely repeated stuff that was told to them - stuff that was EASILY completely discredited by even a cursory examination of history, language, or even just the Bible. (I remember one guy who insisted the Apocrypha had no validity because the name itself means "false". I told him no, it means, hidden writing, gave him the etymology and he looked at me like I was possessed or something). All these guys had to do was just open a book, like a good Berean, and see for themselves. But they didn't. They repeated popular preacher's stories as though they were factual - and I knew they weren't.
It was sad, really. Smart people who wouldn't think for themselves, and doing so was EASY.
So when I hear Streisand and Jagger and Garofalo and other Hollywood types spit out the word "neo-con" as though the word itself was some kind of curse - and just being CALLED neo-con was proof enough that you were 'bad' - I ignore them. They're smart people who have the ability to check out what it means, but won't do so. They'd rather be a sock puppet.
I mean, I wish I had a nickel for every time someone like Hannity or even Limbaugh made me groan and say to the radio - geez, can you get your news from SOMEWHERE OTHER THAN DRUDGE? I hear Hannity repeat that old saw about "if you're not liberal when young..." that is misattributed to Churchill, and say geez, for PETE'S SAKE, check your source.
Because I DON'T just swallow their crap. Half the time, I think what they say IS crap. I just think that almost always, the other side spews nearly nothing but. They might as well exchange orifices.
AndyMarquisLIVE
New Member
You're a smart guy, so ... do you really honestly believe that?Larry Gude said:
AndyMarquisLIVE
New Member
http://mediamatters.org/items/200702020015vraiblonde said:
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Yes and no...
...Yes, I believe what they say. Yes, I know they say it to appease their left wing base. No, I don't think people like Biden and Hoyer and others actually believe the party line. Some clearly do.
AndyMarquisLIVE said:
...Yes, I believe what they say. Yes, I know they say it to appease their left wing base. No, I don't think people like Biden and Hoyer and others actually believe the party line. Some clearly do.
AndyMarquisLIVE
New Member
As the Right Wing Propoganda goes - I do think a large element of 24 is political. But, overall, I still do like the show.
forestal
I'm the Boss of Me
shhhhh
Shhh,,,,The government doesn't want you to know they torture people....
If you know what's good for you you'll stop talking about it.....
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]US court throws out CIA torture case[/font] <table border="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="middle" width="50%">
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Published: Friday March 2, 2007[/font][/font]</td> <td valign="middle" width="50%">
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> A US federal appeals court on Friday upheld a refusal to hear the case of a Lebanese-born German man who says he was tortured by the CIA, citing national security reasons.
Khaled el-Masri claims was detained by the CIA for several months in 2004 on suspicion of links to terrorism.
Masri, 43, filed suit in December 2005 saying he had been snatched while on a trip in Macedonia, taken to Afghanistan, jailed, beaten and harassed before being set free without charge after five months.
He demanded an explanation and an apology from the United States for his detention, as well as 75,000 dollars in damages.
The US government had urged the court to reject the appeal saying that for national security reasons it could not confirm or deny any of the allegations because they were related to the activities of the CIA.
The court said that to make his case, el-Masri "would be obliged to produce admissible evidence not only that he was detained and interrogated, but that the defendants were involved in his detention and interrogation in a manner that renders them personally liable to him.
"Such a showing could be made only with evidence that exposes how the CIA organizes, staffs and supervises its most sensitive intelligence operations.
"The defendants could not properly defend themselves without using privileged evidence," the decision said.
American Civil Liberties Union director Anthony Romero said the court was wrong.
"Regrettably, today's decision allows CIA officials to disregard the law with impunity by making it virtually impossible to challenge their actions in court," he said in a statement.
"The state secrets doctrine has become a shield that covers even the most blatant abuses of power," he said.
Masri has also taken his case to the German courts and a court in southern Munich in January ordered the arrest of 13 people, thought to be CIA agents, in connection with his alleged kidnapping.
His is one of the most high-profile cases of the suspected "extraordinary renditions" by the CIA -- flying terror suspects through European states to detention in third countries where they risk being tortured.
After meeting with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in December 2005, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Masri's case "was accepted as a mistake by the US government," but US officials later suggested her remark was the result of a misunderstanding.
Reports have indicated that US agents confused Masri with a terror suspect with a similar name who was linked to the attacks of September 11, 2001.
Shhh,,,,The government doesn't want you to know they torture people....
If you know what's good for you you'll stop talking about it.....
[font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]US court throws out CIA torture case[/font] <table border="0" cellpadding="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td valign="middle" width="50%">
[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][font=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Published: Friday March 2, 2007[/font][/font]</td> <td valign="middle" width="50%">
<script src="http://digg.com/tools/diggthis.js" type="text/javascript"></script><iframe src="http://digg.com/tools/diggthis.php?u=http%3A//rawstory.com/news/afp/US_court_throws_out_CIA_torture_cas_03022007.html" frameborder="0" height="80" scrolling="no" width="52"></iframe>
</td> </tr> </tbody></table> A US federal appeals court on Friday upheld a refusal to hear the case of a Lebanese-born German man who says he was tortured by the CIA, citing national security reasons.
Khaled el-Masri claims was detained by the CIA for several months in 2004 on suspicion of links to terrorism.
Masri, 43, filed suit in December 2005 saying he had been snatched while on a trip in Macedonia, taken to Afghanistan, jailed, beaten and harassed before being set free without charge after five months.
He demanded an explanation and an apology from the United States for his detention, as well as 75,000 dollars in damages.
The US government had urged the court to reject the appeal saying that for national security reasons it could not confirm or deny any of the allegations because they were related to the activities of the CIA.
The court said that to make his case, el-Masri "would be obliged to produce admissible evidence not only that he was detained and interrogated, but that the defendants were involved in his detention and interrogation in a manner that renders them personally liable to him.
"Such a showing could be made only with evidence that exposes how the CIA organizes, staffs and supervises its most sensitive intelligence operations.
"The defendants could not properly defend themselves without using privileged evidence," the decision said.
American Civil Liberties Union director Anthony Romero said the court was wrong.
"Regrettably, today's decision allows CIA officials to disregard the law with impunity by making it virtually impossible to challenge their actions in court," he said in a statement.
"The state secrets doctrine has become a shield that covers even the most blatant abuses of power," he said.
Masri has also taken his case to the German courts and a court in southern Munich in January ordered the arrest of 13 people, thought to be CIA agents, in connection with his alleged kidnapping.
His is one of the most high-profile cases of the suspected "extraordinary renditions" by the CIA -- flying terror suspects through European states to detention in third countries where they risk being tortured.
After meeting with US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in December 2005, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said Masri's case "was accepted as a mistake by the US government," but US officials later suggested her remark was the result of a misunderstanding.
Reports have indicated that US agents confused Masri with a terror suspect with a similar name who was linked to the attacks of September 11, 2001.
R
RadioPatrol
Guest
yeah as if .........
Somewhere above in the 1st couple of posts was a rant about MSNBC that some of our troops had "seen" some torture on "24" - so that must be OK - cause Jack Bauer did it? - sounds like a break down in the Chain of Command - and didn't several Soldiers end up in Jail over Torture ? ( I do not recall the exact people or ranks ) yeah I know the bastard @ the top got off ....
Interesting video Andy ......... so now a lefty reporter or journalist - Olbermann has New Yorker's Jane Mayer, who quotes how republicans complained for years that SEX on TV did not influence Morals and how "kids" grew up, are suddenly coming up with this allegedly right wing TV show
on one cable channel out of how many other channels ? or I guess it is a good target because it gets good ratings ?
is influencing our troops to torture terrorist suspects, cause it is shown on 24 every week? Sounds sensationalizing and rehashing old Abu Grab News ...... where is the other side of the story, why is this one guy coming forward? where are his buddies ?
TV is so over the top with Sex, Violence, Crap so far out of touch with reality - but Hollywood and TV is Pure, its those M Rated Video Games kids buy when mommy and daddy aren't looking ...... just ask congress and there campaign to bag violent video games
........ Liberman? I believe ?? 
Sorry I play some of those games and I am not in the least inspired to go "Postal" on my neighbors ........... I play More 1st Person Shooters that are Historical in nature - Call of Duty, Black Hawk Down
Really how many of us here are old enough to have grown up on Sat morning Cartoons. Buggs Bunny anyone ? These were cartoons shown to our parents along with a newsreel before the main movie - like b4 TV ?
Sat afternoon reruns of old John Wayne, Clint Eastwood westerns - sure thing s were not as realistic - yeah the blood was really fake ..... stories were about people, over coming difficulties, growing, not a pornography of CSI style autopsies, murder and mayhem - the medium has changed, hollywierd is constantly pushing to see how much more graphic it can get.
Anyone remember when the "Faces of Death" videos came out in the late 70's movies shot after disasters, animal attacks, yes Autopsies - like that airline crash in San Diego in 1978, raw footage someone shot ....... i'll leave the scene to the imagination.
Faces of Death wouldn't be a warm up for the evening news these days.
Regular TV (broadcast and cable) has restrictions on sexual explicit content - barely - so now we get 24, CSI Vegas, Miami and now your bloodiest CSI yet NY - there words not mine ...... Criminal Minds, NCIS, hey its not Law and Order anymore ...... we'll replay the murder scene in in all its gory detail
sure the bad guys still get whats coming to them - and one could argue the original CSI was about the Science - but the rest is glorified and sensationalized - we have so grow accustomed to it as a culture, you sit down with your dinner plate and go "Oh look at that" , pass the salt dear ........
Ironically the internet has made the Iraq Sectarian Conflict probably one of the most video taped photo graphed event in History - I can get video of soldiers calling in 500lb JDAMS to take out a sniper or the latest Islamofascist executions from Al Jerizza of Iraq Policemen being shot for being Police and cooperating, while trying to earn a living, in the new Iraq Gov.
TV used to have Morality ( Oops there is that word ) now it is all about how sensational can we get with this weeks Autopsy.
Even better anyone seen Mel Gibson in Payback? nobody in the entire movie is honest, its crooks and dirty cops ...... and we end up rooting for the bad guy, cause well he was double crossed by his partner trying to buy his way into the mob, his ex is a junkie and his girl friend was a call girl ......
movies with Police breaking the laws there supposed to enforce, and we cheer cause well the bad guy was really a Bastard working the system and he was going to get away .....
it all slowly alters the mind to what acceptable .... you'd never see Jack Web of Dragnet pulling the crap you see on Cop TV Show's now ........
One Adam 12 Anyone ?
Well Hell, we will even give your real COPS on Beat, The First 24 ..... The DOG
No to knock John Walsh - his was a true tragedy.
But when TV has the power to make a great impact. And we all hope it is independent of the gov. but if circumstances were a little different how many of our neighbors would turn us in to that 1-800-tips line if our faces splashed across the 21 inch screen " Have You Seen This Person"
So blurred have the line between right and wrong, reality and fiction they have switched places, like the Twilight Zone -
Everyone makes choices in life, right or wrong ? It is what you do after the choice, accept moral responsibility for you actions? blame the system, i grew up in X ....... I saw torture on 24 so it must be ok .....
ya know i have been out of work since Jun 06, lawyers are gonna waste a crap load of ANS 478 Mil maybe i ought to hack the bank and take a cut shoot the interest alone could keep me and my 50 closest friends happy till death ..........
Sorry Trying to Rationalize my way to a better life ...........
Andy Marquis said:
Somewhere above in the 1st couple of posts was a rant about MSNBC that some of our troops had "seen" some torture on "24" - so that must be OK - cause Jack Bauer did it? - sounds like a break down in the Chain of Command - and didn't several Soldiers end up in Jail over Torture ? ( I do not recall the exact people or ranks ) yeah I know the bastard @ the top got off ....
Interesting video Andy ......... so now a lefty reporter or journalist - Olbermann has New Yorker's Jane Mayer, who quotes how republicans complained for years that SEX on TV did not influence Morals and how "kids" grew up, are suddenly coming up with this allegedly right wing TV show
on one cable channel out of how many other channels ? or I guess it is a good target because it gets good ratings ?
is influencing our troops to torture terrorist suspects, cause it is shown on 24 every week? Sounds sensationalizing and rehashing old Abu Grab News ...... where is the other side of the story, why is this one guy coming forward? where are his buddies ?
SamSpade said:
TV is so over the top with Sex, Violence, Crap so far out of touch with reality - but Hollywood and TV is Pure, its those M Rated Video Games kids buy when mommy and daddy aren't looking ...... just ask congress and there campaign to bag violent video games
........ Liberman? I believe ?? Sorry I play some of those games and I am not in the least inspired to go "Postal" on my neighbors ........... I play More 1st Person Shooters that are Historical in nature - Call of Duty, Black Hawk Down
Really how many of us here are old enough to have grown up on Sat morning Cartoons. Buggs Bunny anyone ? These were cartoons shown to our parents along with a newsreel before the main movie - like b4 TV ?
Sat afternoon reruns of old John Wayne, Clint Eastwood westerns - sure thing s were not as realistic - yeah the blood was really fake ..... stories were about people, over coming difficulties, growing, not a pornography of CSI style autopsies, murder and mayhem - the medium has changed, hollywierd is constantly pushing to see how much more graphic it can get.
Anyone remember when the "Faces of Death" videos came out in the late 70's movies shot after disasters, animal attacks, yes Autopsies - like that airline crash in San Diego in 1978, raw footage someone shot ....... i'll leave the scene to the imagination.
Faces of Death wouldn't be a warm up for the evening news these days.
Regular TV (broadcast and cable) has restrictions on sexual explicit content - barely - so now we get 24, CSI Vegas, Miami and now your bloodiest CSI yet NY - there words not mine ...... Criminal Minds, NCIS, hey its not Law and Order anymore ...... we'll replay the murder scene in in all its gory detail
sure the bad guys still get whats coming to them - and one could argue the original CSI was about the Science - but the rest is glorified and sensationalized - we have so grow accustomed to it as a culture, you sit down with your dinner plate and go "Oh look at that" , pass the salt dear ........
Ironically the internet has made the Iraq Sectarian Conflict probably one of the most video taped photo graphed event in History - I can get video of soldiers calling in 500lb JDAMS to take out a sniper or the latest Islamofascist executions from Al Jerizza of Iraq Policemen being shot for being Police and cooperating, while trying to earn a living, in the new Iraq Gov.
TV used to have Morality ( Oops there is that word ) now it is all about how sensational can we get with this weeks Autopsy.
Even better anyone seen Mel Gibson in Payback? nobody in the entire movie is honest, its crooks and dirty cops ...... and we end up rooting for the bad guy, cause well he was double crossed by his partner trying to buy his way into the mob, his ex is a junkie and his girl friend was a call girl ......
movies with Police breaking the laws there supposed to enforce, and we cheer cause well the bad guy was really a Bastard working the system and he was going to get away .....
it all slowly alters the mind to what acceptable .... you'd never see Jack Web of Dragnet pulling the crap you see on Cop TV Show's now ........
One Adam 12 Anyone ?
Well Hell, we will even give your real COPS on Beat, The First 24 ..... The DOG
No to knock John Walsh - his was a true tragedy.
But when TV has the power to make a great impact. And we all hope it is independent of the gov. but if circumstances were a little different how many of our neighbors would turn us in to that 1-800-tips line if our faces splashed across the 21 inch screen " Have You Seen This Person"
So blurred have the line between right and wrong, reality and fiction they have switched places, like the Twilight Zone -
Everyone makes choices in life, right or wrong ? It is what you do after the choice, accept moral responsibility for you actions? blame the system, i grew up in X ....... I saw torture on 24 so it must be ok .....
ya know i have been out of work since Jun 06, lawyers are gonna waste a crap load of ANS 478 Mil maybe i ought to hack the bank and take a cut shoot the interest alone could keep me and my 50 closest friends happy till death ..........
Sorry Trying to Rationalize my way to a better life ...........
hvp05
Methodically disorganized
I was deeply skeptical about your argument, Andy. But last night I was watching the FOX Sports Network, and they definitely favor the Red State teams.AndyMarquisLIVE said:
I am about to investigate the FOX Movie Channel. What do you think the chances are that I will see a Ronald Reagan movie sometime today?