U.S. Helicopter Crash in Iraq Kills 13

[Larry Gude]

Ps...

...MMdad, if you consider W a conservative, just say so.

 

[Larry Gude]

How about...

I support the idea of withdrawing our troops from Iraq.


Upon leaving, we need to turn the entire region into a burning, glowing hell that won't be survivable for at least a thousand years.

Same goes for N. Korea, China, Half-Dozen or more other places.

No more troop loss for us, no more problems with those nations/hell-holes... If the Democrats are truly loyal citizens and concerned only for our troops, they should be happy.

Oh.... And roast those skeezy little Frenchies too.

....a withdraw from the interior and put US forces on border security? If we eliminate foreign interference do we not also, by definition, create the security for the Iraqi's to figure this out?

It's like our problem at home; you can't address illegal immigrants until the border is controlled.

 

[PsyOps]

....a withdraw from the interior and put US forces on border security? If we eliminate foreign interference do we not also, by definition, create the security for the Iraqi's to figure this out?

It's like our problem at home; you can't address illegal immigrants until the border is controlled.

Although we have to AGGRESSIVELY address the Baghdad and Anbar problem I completely agree with you on this. This would have a two-fold solution in stopping the outside influence as well as identifying specifically where they are coming from. I think this is key to putting more of our focus on confirming Iran's purposeful influence on the situation.

I'm sorry to say this folks but I think war with Iran may be unavoidable.

 

[2ndAmendment]

...and I would argue that there are three major issues the GOP has failed not only its conservative base on, but the nation as a whole as well;

1. Our borders.

2. Massive expansion of the federal government.

3. Foreign adventurism, specifically Iraq and Afghanistan.


I know you agree on the first two. Would you agree that what we are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan has run far afield of conservative principles?

Good afternoon. Went to church, so I got left behind in the thread.

1. Our borders. The operative words here are Our - belonging to us, the people. And borders - bounding lines or areas. If they are not defended, then we have no borders that are ours. Plain and simple. Most of the citizens of the U.S., I think, are extremely POed about Bush and the feds way of "protecting" our borders.

2. Massive expansion of the federal government. - This has been going on since the First Congress. Power breeds corruption and corruption breeds the desire for more power. It is an ever widening spiral. The government will not stop growing until it implodes which will happen. When? My guess is sooner rather than later. The world is rooting for our implosion.

3. Foreign adventurism [sic], specifically Iraq and Afghanistan. - Are we the world's policeman? I wish not, but no one else is going to step up, certainly not the French or the U.N. I lean toward isolationism, but only until threatened. The fact is we are in Iraq and Afghanistan and to cut and run which is the only way out without total victory would leave us with two modern equivalents of Vietnam. We won most of the battles in Vietnam, too. We lost Vietnam in the press at home just as we are losing in the press now. Darn First Amendment. I believe that Iraq had WMDs. I believe that left to his own devices, Saddam would have eventually used them. That leads to, although you didn't mention them, North Korea and Iran. What do we do about them?

We could stick our collective heads in the sand like an ostrich, but if I were a good ostrich hunter, I would wait for the ostrich to do that and then take my machete and cut its head off, no muss, no fuss. This world is more dangerous every day and our geniuses in Washington can't seem to figure that out.

I know I sound full of doom and gloom, but I hold little hope for our nation since we have the people we have running for office. They are of very poor character and are largely self centered and concerned only with what they can get out of being in office. They may actually start with some lofty idea of trying to be of service, but by and large, from my observations, those ideas are soon lost.

My hope is that when our nation finally implodes from the overabundance of me first to to hell with everyone else inside the beltway and pretty much everywhere, that enough people are still armed and able to defend themselves so that we can make this a hellhole for those that will invade us like our Revolutionary Forefathers did to the British.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Although we have to AGGRESSIVELY address the Baghdad and Anbar problem I completely agree with you on this. This would have a two-fold solution in stopping the outside influence as well as identifying specifically where they are coming from. I think this is key to putting more of our focus on confirming Iran's purposeful influence on the situation.

I'm sorry to say this folks but I think war with Iran may be unavoidable.

I agree with U.S. troops being the border guard for Iraq and let the Iraqi troops do the fighting inside the country. That would also give us a vantage point to see how badly the Iraqis really want democracy. With influence from the outside stopped, if the interior went to hell in an hand basket, well, it is their hand basket.

I agree that war with Iran may be unavoidable as with North Korea. I can only hope they take it nuclear quickly as they threaten. Then those wars will be over in a day or two.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

I agree with U.S. troops being the border guard for Iraq and let the Iraqi troops do the fighting inside the country. That would also give us a vantage point to see how badly the Iraqis really want democracy. With influence from the outside stopped, if the interior went to hell in an hand basket, well, it is their hand basket.

I agree that war with Iran may be unavoidable as with North Korea. I can only hope they take it nuclear quickly as they threaten. Then those wars will be over in a day or two.

The Shi'ites don't want democracy.

 

[2ndAmendment]

The Shi'ites don't want democracy.

You may be right. Again, if we control the borders, and they screw up the interior, not our problem.

 

[Pete]

The Shi'ites don't want democracy.

Bingo

This is the biggest flaw in the entire Iraq deal in my opinion. I have said over and over that the Arabs cannot embrace the concept of democracy. Tribal nomads who rise to power via the sword, hold power via the sword and if you stop pleasing the elite you are removed by the sword. They do not understand democracy, they cannot understand not getting their way, they cannot understand being overruled by the wishes of the minority, compromise is not a word that translates into Farsi. There is not one single functioning democracy in the middle east. All are ruled by monarchs, or dictators. Even calling Egypt a democracy is a farce.

 

[ylexot]

How many wars can we fight without a draft?

AFAIK, the only concerns with Iran and N Korea are nukes. We can take out those capabilities in a matter of hours with air strikes and without having an actual "war".

 

[MMDad]

...MMdad, if you consider W a conservative, just say so.

I think he, as a person, is conservative. His administration is decidedly not. He would like to run the government more conservatively, but he is either scared of the liberals or just unable to do anything that works. Either way, I'm not impressed.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

Bush following path of conservative ideals

 

[forestal]

The president decides what mission the troops perform; they take their marching orders from him and do their best. Your criteria that you must support the mission in order to support the troops really just means that you think one must support the president in order to support the troops. That is complete fallacy.

There is no military solution to bringing peace to Iraq. Once you realize that, you will see that wanting the troops to succeed means suspending disbelief about their chances.

Support the troops. Presumably it means that one supports what the troops are doing and rooting for them to succeed. What else could "support the troops" mean? If you say, for example, that you support the Orioles or Redskins, we assume it means you want them to win.
"

 

[forestal]

Not trying to obtain political points. People are dying over there. If you remove the body count from the discussion, what do you have to be really upset about?

The "bring it on moment" line was over the top, but associating casualty counts with man who's "stay the course" will guarantee another 2k dead americans before we pull out is fair. I wan't to see him impeached, and held for judgement in a court of law for what he's done to this country.

This sort of thing is nothing to try to score political points over. Yes...we can argue to the ends of the Earth about "Iraq"...but this story is not anything anybody should parade.. These heroes (and their families) have given more than anyone here has. The discussion is still valid...but not necessary to discuss it with this sort of news.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

Not trying to obtain political points. People are dying over there. If you remove the body count from the discussion, what do you have to be really upset about?

The "bring it on moment" line was over the top, but associating casualty counts with man who's "stay the course" will guarantee another 2k dead americans before we pull out is fair. I wan't to see him impeached, and held for judgement in a court of law for what he's done to this country.

Go away, just go away.

 

[forestal]

That's some definite progess..

Unfortunately, one step forward, two steps back...
http://www.upi.com/Energy/view.php?StoryID=20070118-120845-4343r

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] BAGHDAD, Jan. 18 A top Iraqi official said militias have been able to steal millions of dollars from the oil ministry, funding their organizations and creating a fuel crisis.[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh said the militias are those fighting the U.S. coalition and Iraq troops, the Arabic daily newspaper Azzaman reports.​

[/font]

I see progess, mainly in part because I don't watch the gloom and doom report of the network news. I see Sadaam brought to justice. I see free elections in Iraq. I see Iraq's oil output rising to 2.5 million barrels a day (highest since the start of this war and .5 million less than it was under Sadaam's reign, link HERE)

There is progress, whether ones wishes to see it or not.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

That's some definite progess..

Unfortunately, one step forward, two steps back...


http://www.upi.com/Energy/view.php?StoryID=20070118-120845-4343r

[font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]BAGHDAD, Jan. 18 A top Iraqi official said militias have been able to steal millions of dollars from the oil ministry, funding their organizations and creating a fuel crisis.[/font][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Deputy Prime Minister Barham Saleh said the militias are those fighting the U.S. coalition and Iraq troops, the Arabic daily newspaper Azzaman reports.​

[/font]

ATTENTION FORESTAL: Go to hell! That is all...

 

[Larry Gude]

All right you all...

I agree with U.S. troops being the border guard for Iraq and let the Iraqi troops do the fighting inside the country. That would also give us a vantage point to see how badly the Iraqis really want democracy. With influence from the outside stopped, if the interior went to hell in an hand basket, well, it is their hand basket.

...that was MY idea and I want credit for it!!!!

I've been thinking about it for a few weeks and I am damn sure those in power have been thinking about it longer than that. The more I think about it, the better I like it.

 

[forestal]

Check the news. They found the manpad tube.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/22/AR2007012200865.html

CNN said they believe the plane crash is an accident so again forsh!tal is wrong.

 

[dustin]

...that was MY idea and I want credit for it!!!!

I've been thinking about it for a few weeks and I am damn sure those in power have been thinking about it longer than that. The more I think about it, the better I like it.

hey i may have thought of it after you did. but it was new to me! so much for thinking i have a super awesome plan i can write a letter to congress about.

 

[Larry Gude]

You can have all...

hey i may have thought of it after you did. but it was new to me! so much for thinking i have a super awesome plan i can write a letter to
congress about.

...credit if you can get them to do it. I just think it's damn good strategy. Obviously, a big part of Iraq's problems is outside interference and what we're doing now is dealing with the problems after the fact. Dealing with issues on the border limits hurting civilians, gets our people out of ambushes and makes IED's and car bombs way less effective.