Ukraine / Russia - Actions and Reactions

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member

NATO Intervention In Ukraine Could Spark Nuclear War. Here’s How It Could Happen



The scenario the group decided to test back in late 2019 was similar to today: Russia decided to invade Ukraine under the excuse that it is must defend Russian-speaking peoples that are being “oppressed” by Ukraine’s fascist government. In our scenario, we assumed Russia performs far more admirably than it does today but has more limited objectives, in that Moscow wants to connect Crimea to separatist regions in Eastern Ukraine that are under its effective control. We assumed that Russia does that quickly, achieving most of its military objectives in roughly four days.

But Ukraine does not give up so easily, just like in real life today. Ukrainian forces, after taking heavy losses, mount an impressive counterattack, whereby Russia loses over 100 tanks and over 2,500 soldiers. Images on social media show Russian armor ablaze, elite Su-35 fighter jets are shut down from the skies, and arms are now flowing in from the West in massive numbers.

Putin is outraged. He thought Ukraine would simply roll over, but he does not factor into his calculus the nearly decades-long training Kyiv received from the U.S. and NATO nor Ukraine’s military build-up for the last several years that was focused on this scenario.

Russia then decides that its limited military objectives were a mistake, and that all of Ukraine must be “demilitarized.” Moscow then launches a massive ballistic and cruise missile strike followed up by Russia’s air force launching its own shock and awe campaign, destroying a vast majority of Ukraine’s command and control structure, air force, air defense, and armored units in the process. At the same time, Russia starts surging troops to the borders of Ukraine in what looks like an imminent general invasion and occupation of the entire country.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member

The Absence Of A Tragic Sense





I’m taking some criticism in the comments section for spending more time talking about the way we in the West are responding to Russia’s aggression than I am talking about the aggression itself. What, do we lack for news, information, and commentary on what rat bastards the Russians are for invading Ukraine, and ought to turn their tanks around and go home? I can’t see that we do. But not enough people want to hear that this is all likely to end very badly, and that the thing we can least afford now is banishing a tragic sense from our deliberations.

Meanwhile, President Zelensky is trying to goad the West into tripping World War III by declaring a no-fly zone over Ukraine, something that could only be enforced by the willingness of NATO jets to fire on Russian aircraft. I understand why desperate Zelensky is doing this, and I understand why it is difficult to sit back and watch the Russian military brutalize Ukraine, and do nothing about it militarily. But — and I want to yell my head off here — the alternative is to risk a shooting war with a nuclear-armed superpower! My God, think about what so many of you are suggesting here! We cannot fix the entire world. Life is tragic. The cost of acting militarily against the Russians in this case could easily be the annihilation of life on earth.

We have to be prepared to take that risk if Russia attacks a NATO country. Ukraine is not a NATO country. Treaties matter. I had hoped that the tragedy of the US wars on Iraq and Afghanistan would affect the ability of Americans to think about the limits of military power, and of the power of the United States to impose its will on the world. Nope. We are now the kind of people who kick Anastasia off of Disney Plus, because she’s Russian.

It has struck me that we are all being gaslit by a media-constructed narrative. I’m quite sure the Russian people are too, by their state-controlled media. If you read Live Not By Lies, you will recall the lament that Father Kirill Kaleda, a Russian Orthodox priest, made to me in a 2019 interview: that the Russian state media were training, via propaganda, the Russian people to hate Ukrainians. What few of us Americans are considering now is the possibility that our media are doing the same thing to us regarding the Russians today.



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I am thinking about the human rights outrages that China visits routinely on people — most especially the Uyghurs, who are facing cultural genocide at Beijing’s hands — but that the West is prepared to take in stride. You will not see Disney removing Mulan from its repertoire in solidarity with Uyghurs. There is far too much money to be made in China. We are such hypocrites.


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Ah yes: Russians as incarnations of whiteness. Finally, a woke principle that can unify liberals and conservatives. Thanks, Putin.
 

HemiHauler

Well-Known Member

Mike Pence Says There Is 'No Room' in the Republican Party for Putin Apologists




"To those who argue that NATO expansion is somehow responsible for the invasion of Ukraine, ask yourself where would our friends in Eastern Europe be today if they were not in NATO," his speech continues. "Where would Russian tanks be today if NATO had not expanded the borders of freedom?"



Pence is a disappointment and clearly ignoring the facts of the matter

And what, pray tell, are “facts of the matter”?

Can you answer without copy/paste?
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I cannot help you, if you are too clueless to understand the situation, I have posted plety of back ground information
 

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HemiHauler

Well-Known Member
I cannot help you, if you are too clueless to understand the situation, I have posted plety of back ground information

😂🤣🤣

I understand it, lil tyke. You’ve posted nothing but copypasta; you are unable to form your own thoughts.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Ah yes, unable to support your position or make a point, out come the condescending ad hominem attacks

Please continue showing your ignorance

:snacks:
 

HemiHauler

Well-Known Member
Ah yes, unable to support your position or make a point, out come the condescending ad hominem attacks

Please continue showing your ignorance

:snacks:

I do not have a position in this thread to support. I am quite certain I am asking you to support your position.

And what, pray tell, are “facts of the matter”?

Can you answer without copy/paste?

Get to it.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
.
Thinking they didn't put you back together right. Or, maybe effects your pockets somehow. Don't want to know, I am just a stranger on the internet. Keep your problems to yourself.

I for one do not want our men and women over there.

I am shocked Gilligan supports Biden. Live and learn as they say..
.and I'm shocked to discover someone so brain dead they believe that Russian fiction.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
"There are in fact journalists and news sites that regularly give updates, but they aren’t as widely known as they should be."

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Ok. Continue trusting your sources.

I'll stick with the Patriots.
I trust in my ability to process information gleaned from multiple sources, including people with direct contacts in Ukraine. You stick with your comedy show.
 
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